User talk:Box32

Box32, you are invited to the Teahouse!

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December 2021

Hello, I'm Joseph2302. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Siobhan Cattigan have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse. This is just perpetuating a conspiracy theory that has been debunked: [1], [2] Joseph2302 (talk) 09:15, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced or poorly sourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Siobhan Cattigan. For the last time, stop adding the conspiracy theory that the COVID vaccine caused it, unless you have actual reliable sources to support this Joseph2302 (talk) 14:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be repeatedly reverting or undoing other editors' contributions at Siobhan Cattigan. Although this may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is known as "edit warring" and is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, as it often creates animosity between editors. Instead of reverting, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to lose their editing privileges on that page. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to result in loss of your editing privileges. Thank you. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Siobhan Cattigan

We follow what reliable sources say- they say that COVID-19 and vaccines were not responsible for her death: [3], [4]. All "claims" of blame on COVID vaccine are not based on reliable sources, so should not be added to this encyclopedia. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:40, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Exactly that, I did the first “real edit “ this morning and so idiot keeps changing it !!

No the Rugby club are not a response source when it comes to medical advice or statements , hence that reference is against wiki standards.

Are you saying a Rugby club is realisable source to make a medical statement ?

There is wide evidence elsewhere to suggest different ,so until such time as cause of death is announced, the edit will need to remain the same or Rugby club ref removed. Box32 (talk) 15:02, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

"There is wide evidence"- where? Please provide reliable sources for this. Because most reliable sources i.e. newspapers, say that this isn't the case. Also, the source saying it's wrong is The Daily Telegraph, not a "rugby club", and I certainly trust them more than random people's tweets.... Joseph2302 (talk) 15:06, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Arthur James (Boxer)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Arthur James (Boxer) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Fram (talk) 10:43, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Please look up the references which I’m still adding ! Arthur James was a international boxer for Zambia and England and is now a professional boxer. Box32 (talk) 10:57, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

July 2023

Your edit to British Boxing Board of Control has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. – ².O.^Boxing 08:50, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did at England Boxing, you may be blocked from editing. – ².O.^Boxing 08:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

May 2024

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced or poorly sourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Orpington. Belbury (talk) 20:48, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Not poorly sourced , all correct history, maybe you would like to help update the page so it’s historically correct ?

I’m sending you the all history from old news paper articles I’ve spent years researching.

Also if you require citation please google Orpington & District Amateur boxing club. 2A02:C7C:52A1:1200:ECA7:62FE:F342:B6F8 (talk) 06:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

You are not including any sources with your edits, the content you're adding is unsourced.

You're welcome to cite offline newspaper articles as sources, just write <ref>"New Sports Club Opens", Orpington Bugle, 13 May 1942, p7</ref> or similar at the end of a paragraph. Belbury (talk) 06:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

If you could help me ?

I can send you all the news paper archives for you to use as citataions. Also some photographs as I not to sure how to do that ?

To be honest Orpington & District Amateur Boxing club has a rich history dating back to 1912 with national champions, notable boxers who have fought for their country and turned professional.

It would be lovely to build/write its very own history page.

I have located / found and researched the club and have old news paper articles dating back to 1912, they helped find cray valley wanders from closing , they also funded a youth centre in 1966 which is still used today.

They had professional boxers like Harry Taylor (1936) Arthur Davis (1981) Jimmy cable and Albert Hillman. 62.31.130.183 (talk) 09:28, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I have found so much info dating back to 1912 it really needs a stand alone page, which I’m not that knowledgable with, I have in the past contributed and helped develop boxing pages with the help of others, so maybe you could start the page and I’ll add content and you can arrange it in the right way.

is there way you can contact me so I can send newspaper articles and photos ?

I really think this is important social history and I don’t want to make mistakes and would really appreciate your help ? 62.31.130.183 (talk) 09:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

There's no need to send anybody the newspaper articles, you can name them by writing for example <ref>"New Sports Club Opens", Orpington Bugle, 13 May 1942, p7</ref> at the end of a paragraph.

If you want to start a new article see Help:Your first article. --Belbury (talk) 09:37, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Could you help start it, once I’m going I think I’d then be ok. 62.31.130.183 (talk) 09:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

If you want help with starting an article try the Wikipedia:Teahouse. Belbury (talk) 09:47, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Maliner (talk) 13:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Please help get it ready as I’m not sure how to do so! What I do have though is 5 years of historical research and I believe this is part of our social history. I have news paper archives so cannot cite them or have any idea how to do so.

I have over 100 old photographs and news paper articles which I could send to you to add to the page.

I would be grateful if you could help get the page ready. Box32 (talk) 13:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Orpington_%26_District_Amateur_Boxing_Club

this is the now draft ! Is it now ready ?

I’m boxing coach not a IT code writer, so your help would be very much appreciated. Box32 (talk) 14:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club (May 13)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Iwaqarhashmi were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Waqar💬 14:48, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club (May 13)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Iwaqarhashmi were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Waqar💬 17:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club. Thanks! Waqar💬 17:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I’m a boxer of a elderly age!

I don’t know what I’m doing , so please can you amend Box32 (talk) 17:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club. Thanks! Waqar💬 17:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I’m an old boxer , I can’t do this, I need help Box32 (talk) 17:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I have over 100 old news papers dating back to 1912 and photographs, I can send them to you ? Box32 (talk) 17:29, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

The sources I have are actual newspapers dating back to 1912, so you can’t verify online ! You let me know how I can send them to you , then you can add the citations. Box32 (talk) 17:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club (May 13)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Iwaqarhashmi were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Waqar💬 17:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club. Thanks! Waqar💬 17:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I have the physical newspapers they’re not online, the news paper articles are the references. Please contact me so I can send that to you, and please write in your wording if you feel like it’s an advert, I have no alliance to the page, just adding historic facts for over 100 years from papers to Wikipedia.

im unable to do what you ask as I do not understand Wikipedia Box32 (talk) 20:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 2601:19E:4180:6D50:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 14:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because your account is being used only for advertising or promotion.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Over 100 years of social history, I’m an old boxing coach who researches boxing I have no affiliation to the club, However I do have the new papers article dating back to the famous Orpington ABC from 1912. This information will be lost if not published.! Unfortunately I don’t know how to use Wikipedia, would it be possible for you to write the history in your wording so it’s correct for Wikipedia , I can send you all the new paper articles as well to help with verification. This is really important otherwise this history will be lost when I pass on. Box32 (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

The first thing is you can't tuck entire sections about small boxing clubs into any article that is tangentially related. You also can't use non-encyclopedic wording like "famous" in all the section headers. We need to work off secondary sources, and summarize what they're saying about the club, rather than sticking in the club motto and address. The way you were editing came across as someone with a conflict of interest related to the club trying to spam mentions of it across multiple articles.

I understand that Wikipedia is difficult to learn, so I think what we may need to do is see if there is anyone available to who can help you meet our standards while keeping the history that you have sources for. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, if you promise not to start adding the same info on that club to multiple articles again, I'll unblock you. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok sounds perfect, it’s just I don’t understand Wikipedia, I have used it and I’ve tried to create the page but really don’t understand. The club I suppose is famous as it’s won lots of national titles and had boxers represent England and team GB, also had notable professional boxers come from the club.

my research has come from British news paper archives.

I would be grateful if you can help as I’m really not capable.

I could send you all the time lines, history and papers and then maybe you could or someone at Wikipedia could put it in the correct format.

I will not write any further regarding the subject. Box32 (talk) 16:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I've unblocked you. Are any of the sources you're using available online? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:26, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

They’re online but you have to pay for them. It called British news paper archives. Box32 (talk) 16:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

The best thing I think would me to email all the info.

what I was collect all the info then wrote as a article. Box32 (talk) 16:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Please see below time line and then would be best if I sent you the new paper articles.

Orpington & District Boxing Club

Orpington & District Amateur boxing club located in Pettswood Orpington, Kent, England. The club was originally established as Orpington Lads Club in 1912 by the St. Mary Cray Scout Troop, a scout group in St. Mary's Cray. Its purpose was to support underprivileged young men in the Orpington area.

The Clubs Motto

Progredior is translated Progression.

Between the years 1962 to 1990, Orpington & District ABC had produced numerous notable amateur champions and had several distinguished former members. Some of these include Jimmy Cable, Albert Hillman, and Mark Baker.

Orpington & District ABC produced the most national champions of any boxing club within the Borough and held the record for most kent, Southern Counties and London Champions.

Orpington & District ABC won a record number of school boy titles of any club in Kent during the period from 1962 to 1980 and also held the Kent and Southern counties school boy championships at the RoseCroft Club.

Due to the clubs position on Kent borders the club also went on to box in the South East Divisional's winning multiple London titles.

The club later affiliated to Surrey ABA Southern counties, when located in Westerham in 1986.

The club holds the distinction of being one of the oldest boxing clubs in Kent and is currently situated in Pettswood.

Its name was changed to Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club in 1936 from Orpington lads Club under the guidance of former professional boxer Harry Taylor, who introduced the prestigious Taylor's Cup.

In 1937 under the guidance of Harry Taylor, his stable of boxers put on various tournaments to raise funds for Cray Wanders Football Club to prevent it from closing.

During World War II, the club temporarily closed down for obvious reasons. It wasn't until 1962, under the leadership of Alf Reilly at St. Joseph's Boys School in Orpington and Eric Lubbock MP as the president , that the club reopened. It later moved to St. Mary's Cray Sea Cadet Hall and then the Rose Croft Social Club in the late 1960s and 1970s, With Jack Stewart the then president of the Rosecroft ensuring the club had a home until he resigned in 1980.

Orpington & District ABC has a rich history of producing champions, including,Mick Spencer, Gary Cable, Alan Cable, Johnny Hillman, Albert Hillman, Mark Baker, Robert Mullholland, Robert Stacey, Terry Pearson, P Martin and Ray Mason.

In 1966, the club successfully raised funds to build the Magpie Hall Lane Youth Centre in Southborough. It briefly operated from the Youth Centre at Magpie Hall Lane Pettswood before relocating to the Rosecroft social club in St.Mary’s cray coached by ex England international and national champion and previous boxer for the club Mick Spencer.

The club then relocated behind the Queenshead public house in Green St. Green in 1980 with Mick Spencer moving to the Fitzroy lodge. Ex pro Arthur Davis was now the head coach.In 1986, the club moved again, due lack of funding and unsuitable venue, this time to Westerham, where it merged with the Sir Winston Churchill Boxing Club,and the Spitfire Boxing club Bigginhill with Jimmy Cable serving as president and John Hart as coach. During this period, the club continued to produce national champions such as Robert Stacey and Mark Baker and good regional boxers such as Neville Smith,Dean Philp, Justin Worrel,Ian Tebbit and Mark Dalton.

Unfortunately, the club faced challenges in the 1990s, when the Royal Standard pub in Westerham closed this was the closure of all 3 clubs the Spitfire, Sir Winston Churchill and Orpington ABC leading to temporary closures due to a lack of venues and funding. However, in 2007 the Cray valley boxing club in Poverest claimed the Orpington & District ABC name and briefly re-opened and again produced regional champions under coach Olly Rutherford. The club sadly closed in 2013 due to lack of funding yet again.

Orpington & District ABC reopened its doors again in Pettswood on the 8th April 2024 with an 15 year lease, ensuring the continuation of its legacy in the boxing community.

The club is the only official regulated boxing club affiliated to the National Governing Body England Boxing & Sport England based in Pettswood and was the Original boxing club in Pettswood being located there in 1966.

Amateur tournaments were held at the Daylight Inn with Great Elms Boxing club which was located in Great Elms road in Bromley.

The club also has a professional affiliation to the British Boxing Board of Control.

The club is now run by ex boxers & family members of the original Orpington & District ABC under the affiliation of England Boxing established in 1880. Box32 (talk) 16:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment)  Comment: Posting long replies makes people more likely to ignore you. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 16:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you I didn’t know that, is that rule ? Box32 (talk) 16:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

TheTechie, I've asked them for details. Sometimes long talk page messages are necessary.

Box32, let me see if I can get access to that through the Wikipedia Library or some other resource. Does the archive allow "clipping" of articles, like newspapers.com? For example, I can generate this page to use with the old newspaper source. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish Sorry. Usually when I see people posting very long UB's they just get ignored. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 21:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I suppose you can learn from this experience to treat all people fairly regardless of how long their reply is 😉 2A02:C7C:52A1:1200:5842:69A1:55C6:3984 (talk) 05:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

If you can email me, I can send you the news papers articles so you can locate. Box32 (talk) 06:57, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Published: Friday 05 June 1936

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

Terry Chases ABA chances / Orpington & District ABC / Terry Pearson

Published: Wednesday 23 January 1980

Newspaper: Kent Evening Post

County: Kent, England

TERRY SETS PRO TARGET

... national junior title and is making great strides as he approaches senior status A A S 5 a member of Orpington Boxing. Club, he won’ the London 80{;‘ Clubs’ title in the autumn, went on to take the regional champion: ship and finished the job at the Hilton ...

Published: Friday 25 January 1980

Newspaper: Maidstone Telegraph

County: Kent, England

Type: Article | Words: 188 | Page: 35 | Tags: non

ADDRESS That Lubbock fight KO'd

... be meeting Councillor Bill Cain in the boxing ring after all. Mr. Lubbock, 36-year-old one-time Oxford University amateur boxer, is M P for Orpington., Kent. He and Mr. Cain, 50-year-old Liberal member of Orpington town council, had planned to fight next ...

Published: Tuesday 30 March 1965

Newspaper: Daily Mirror

County: London, England

ORPINGTON BOXING BOU

... ORPINGTON BOXING BOUTS. . MAN KNOCKED OUT OF RING. . A sensation was caused during a boxing tournament at Orpington Village Hall on Thursday last week, when one of the contestants was knocked clean out of the ring and fell on his head at the feet of two ...

Published: Friday 23 April 1937

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

AMBULGAMIA. . WH

... had to be abandoned owing to rain. boxing programme was organised by Mr. Garry Taylor, of the Crays and OrpingtonBoxing Club. A comic bout between Larry Eames, trainer to the club. and S. Burgess. chairman of the ...

Published: Friday 05 June 1936

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

Busy boxing boys are held to 3-3 draw

... included in an evening's boxingpromoted by the Orpington Amateur Boxing Club will go to the disaster fund. i At Ramsgate Martin Young proved too strong for his opponent, K. Otter, and the fight was stopped the fn.( round. An aggressive Michael A Idous gained ...

Published: Friday 04 November 1966

Newspaper: Kent Messenger & Gravesend Telegraph

County: Kent, England

... Westerham will be teaming up’ with Orpington Boxing Club and the Spitfire Boxing Club Biggin Hill for several joint promotions as well as providing fight fans with a higher grade of boxing On Tuesday November 3 ...

Published: Thursday 17 September 1987

Newspaper: Sevenoaks Focus

County: Kent, England

BOXING AT CRAY.. A b

... (dhortlands); Jeff Thomas (Kent House) v. A Manlier (Tunbridge); George Tucker (United Dairies) v. Eric Young (Orpingtonand District Boxing Club); rzid Evan (0. and D. 8.0.) v. Charlie Phillips (London); Edgar Westbrook v. George Clark (both 0. and D. 8 ...

Published: Friday 28 May 1937

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

... collage at Cambridge in A PARTY of 40 Including boxers from Sir Winston Churchill Boxing Club and Orpington Boxing Clubreturned triumphant from Cornwall recently group twin club Penryn and Falmouth ABC winning ...

Published: Wednesday 26 November 1986

Newspaper: Sevenoaks Focus

County: Kent, England

... Bathurst. King. Russell. Kimber. Leach, Pol Land. Emment. Graham's the boy Two Oid Actomans were on the boxing bill at the Orpington Amateur Boxing Club in Kent lair week. ,Graham Scarrou was the (but to appear. He used an of fettive left jab and a powerful ...

Published: Thursday 25 October 1973

Newspaper: Acton Gazette

County: London, England

This season Westerham win be teaming up with Orpington Boxing Club and Spitfire Boxing Club Biggin for joint promotions The Orpington and Westerham Boxing ...

Published: Friday 18 September 1987

Newspaper: Sevenoaks Chronicle and Kentish Advertiser

County: Kent, England

within the club) went to club president Mr Maurice Ingleton The trophies were presented by Mr W Silvester president of Orpington Boxing Club and chairman Mr Melvyn Shorter and Mr Doug Sayers vice-chairman of the Sir Winston Churchill ...

Published: Thursday 29 October 1987

Newspaper: Sevenoaks Focus

County: Kent, England

evening’s action is available Sir Winston Churchill Boxing Club are now working towards a big dinner show set for Thursday (October 16) at the Marlowe Rooms in Sidcup in connection with OrpingtonBoxing Club The ...

Published: Friday 10 October 1986

Newspaper: Sevenoaks Chronicle and Kentish Advertiser

County: Kent, England

ORPINGTON LADS' CLUB. The Village Lads’ Club is doing well, and the comfort of having a good room with plenty of amusement is demomstrated by the numbers which turned up last Thursday evening. St. Mary Cray Troop of Scouts sent up two ...

Published: Friday 29 March 1912

Newspaper: Eltham & District Times

County: London, England

of 11 boxers from the St Mary's club, Chatham, managed to get a contest when they travelled to a show at the RosecroftClub, Orpington. Tony Thompson impressed in only his second bout by out pointing 8. King, of Orpington, in an entertaining ...

Published: Wednesday 15 December 1976

Newspaper: Kent Evening Post

County: Kent, England

They are facing the first hurdle of the national schoolboys boxing championships in the Kent semi-finals at RosecroftWorking Men’s Club, Orpington. The Chatham team is Geoffrey Morrall (Sheerness Secondary), David Brincat (Walderslade Secondary), Andrew ...

Published: Thursday 17 January 1974

Newspaper: Kent Evening Post

County: Kent, England

They are facing the first hurdle of the national schoolboys boxing championships in the Kent semi-finals at RosecroftWorking Men’'s Club, Orpington. The Chatham team is Geoffrey Morrall (Sheerness Secondary), David Brincat (Walderslade Secondary), Andrew ...

Published: Thursday 17 January 1974

Newspaper: Kent Evening Post

County: Kent, England

MARY CRAY Boxing of an almost pro!essional polish was seen at a tournament by Orpington and District_Amateur Boxing ...

Published: Friday 04 June 1937

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

.. ORPINGTON BOXING BOUTS. . MAN KNOCKED OUT OF RING. . A sensation was caused during a boxing tournament at Orpington Village Hall on Thursday last week, when one of the contestants was knocked clean out of the ring and fell on his head at the feet of two ...

Published: Friday 23 April 1937

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

... VILLAGE HALL BOXING. SPIRITED CONTESTS. Mr. Harry Taylor's boxingprogramme attraeted an enthuniastic crowd to Orpington Village Hall on Thursday last week. and if they were inclined to give npirted advice and criticism to combatants it showed at least ...

Published: Friday 05 June 1936

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

The last of the staged events was a series of boxing contests, mostly by well-known local performers, arranged by Mr. Harry Taylor, of Crays and Orpington BoxingClub. . ...

Published: Friday 26 June 1936

Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury

County: London, England

.. included in an evening's boxing promoted by the Orpington Amateur Boxing Club will go to the disaster fund. i At Ramsgate Martin Young proved too strong for his opponent, K. Otter, and the fight was stopped the fn.( round. An aggressive Michael A Idous gained ...

Published: Friday 04 November 1966

Newspaper: Kent Messenger & Gravesend Telegraph

County: Kent, England Box32 (talk) 10:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Do you have anything that has significant coverage of the boxing club? A news story specifically about it, or a profile of the club and its accomplishments? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Daily Mail Eric Lubbock MP president for the club / Oxford blue and boxed for the club ?

Jimmy Cable European champion ?

Albert Hillman pro boxer ?

If you go on the England boxing website under roll of honour you can also locate all the national champions. Box32 (talk) 15:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I mean news stories or articles, or books/chapters that are specifically about the club as a whole, rather than mentioning the club or that someone was a member of the club. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

This whole article in the daily Mail is about the club and about the president of the club Eric Lubbock MP who was a lord !

Id say that’s pretty notable

... be meeting Councillor Bill Cain in the boxing ring after all. Mr. Lubbock, 36-year-old one-time Oxford University amateur boxer, is M P for Orpington., Kent. He and Mr. Cain, 50-year-old Liberal member of Orpington town council, had planned to fight next ...

Published: Tuesday 30 March 1965

Newspaper: Daily Mirror

County: London, England Box32 (talk) 15:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I can’t find a book, but I’ve found they had boxers that represented team GB. I’ve also found another boxing club on Wikipedia “Repton boxing club” and can’t find a book, I know they have been on TV and recently one of the boxers was on BBBC iplayer the stable and one of the pro boxers is common wealth contender “Billy the Kid”

Also I’ve found the president from 1986 “Jimmy Cable” on Wikipedia.

Most team GB or notable boxers or England representatives are on Wikipedia.

How can I find a book from 1912 / 1936 online ? Box32 (talk) 17:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I’ve found several mentions on Charlie Magris book regarding Orpington ABC and in Anthony Whatleys book regarding Orpington Boxing Club.

So it’s in paper articles dating 1912 is the oldest club in Kent, had notable boxer from the club. Had a Lord and MP president of the club.

Is in mentioned in papers dating back over 100 years.

Is in books.

Also they’ve had England and GB representatives. Box32 (talk) 18:14, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

What I mean by significant coverage is articles like this one that are specifically about the club, rather than mentioning the club. Mentions are okay for filling out an article, but to establish that it is notable you'll need at least three decent quality sources that are independent of the club covering it in detail. Try and get the three best you can find together. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I now can’t read any of your reply as they are now just single letters as below Box32 (talk) 18:49, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

That better? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Perfect Box32 (talk) 19:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/sport/othersport/4029732.rutherford-makes-history-at-cafe-royal/ Box32 (talk) 19:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

There is no significant coverage in this article. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0004288/19370604/283/0014

This is significant coverage about the club. Box32 (talk) 05:43, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0004288/19370528/274/0014

this article is significant coverage of the club Box32 (talk) 05:47, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Significant national champion

p. martin

John Hillman

https://www.englandboxing.org/roll-of-honour/gender/male-championships/page/20/ Box32 (talk) 05:55, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

National finalist

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/sport/othersport/10117531.sidcup-boxer-determined-to-bounce-back/ Box32 (talk) 05:59, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.essexboysandgirlsclubs.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/NewsletterDecember2012-website.pdf

orpington ABC enter national championships Box32 (talk) 06:04, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

News shopper 21st February 2024.

article on the club

in the actual physical paper.

so to get this you need to subscribe to the paper Box32 (talk) 06:59, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

FRIDAY, JANUARY 28, 1949.

Freddie mills boxing champions praises boxers at Orpington tournament.

kent Telegraph Box32 (talk) 07:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/sport/othersport/1418983.orpington-set-for-boxing-extravaganza/ Box32 (talk) 20:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

That's Cray valley boxing club. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:49, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Cray Valley Boxing Club is Orpington & District.

orpington lads club

1912

cray and Orpington boxing club

1920

orpington & district amateur club

1936

Them change to cray valley amateur club 2007 due to location ( as was located in cray valley)

then later in 2007 it took back the Orpington & District amateur boxing club name until 2013.

The point is the club is historic , it’s the oldest in Kent.

it’s produced national champions and team GB members which makes it notable !

this can be verified by the England boxing website roll of honour!

would you like me to send you links to the national champions ?

if you read the Orpington & district abc page you’ll see the history regards to cray valley boxing club.

The club has been called

Orpington lads club

cray & orpington

orpington boxing club

Orpington ABC

Orpington & District ABC Box32 (talk) 21:18, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/722242.new-boxing-club-set-to-open/ Box32 (talk) 20:01, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/4012038.orpington-olympic-boxing-coach-terry-edwards-gets-mbe/ Box32 (talk) 20:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

This one doesn't mention the club or have any coverage. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Terry Edwards is a MBE and was a coach for Orpington and boxed for Orpington.

Not all history is in a local rag online. Box32 (talk) 21:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.englandboxing.org/results/national-junior-championships-1969/ Box32 (talk) 21:29, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.boxinghistory.org.uk/amateur/1960-69-london-divisionals.pdf Box32 (talk) 21:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.englandboxing.org/roll-of-honour/gender/male-championships/page/21/

John Hillman champion

brother to Albert Hillman both boxed for Orpington abc in 60s and 70s Box32 (talk) 21:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.englandboxing.org/results/aba-national-schools-championships-1970/

john Hillman again Box32 (talk) 21:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.englandboxing.org/results/aba-national-schools-championships-1969/

mick Spencer and Ray Mason Box32 (talk) 21:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Book

The Orpington boxing club is in Charlie magrai book “ champagne Charlie “ chapter first bout Box32 (talk) 17:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Which page do you mean? I can access the text on Google Books, but the only mentions of Orpington I can see in that chapter are two references to rival boxer Chris Genkin being from Orpington. If his match against Genkin took place at the Orpington Boxing Club, the text doesn't appear to mention it. Belbury (talk) 12:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes that’s correct Chris was a notable boxer.

on the draft “ Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club”

I have add all the references to paper archives detailing the history of the club going back 1912.

A copy of all the references from Draft:Orpington & District Amateur Boxing Club
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Oldest club in Kent, most national champions in Kent, notable boxers, England and team GB representatives. also notable professional boxers who trained at the club. so it’s mentioned in multiple news papers including daily Mail, mentioned in books etc. if you can use the references and put in the location you require that would be great. Box32 (talk) 12:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC) Here you go and I do believe you require 3 news paper articles is that correct ? Published: Friday 05 June 1936 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England Terry Chases ABA chances / Orpington & District ABC / Terry Pearson Published: Wednesday 23 January 1980 Newspaper: Kent Evening Post County: Kent, England TERRY SETS PRO TARGET ... national junior title and is making great strides as he approaches senior status A A S 5 a member of Orpington Boxing. Club, he won’ the London 80{;‘ Clubs’ title in the autumn, went on to take the regional champion: ship and finished the job at the Hilton ... Published: Friday 25 January 1980 Newspaper: Maidstone Telegraph County: Kent, England Type: Article | Words: 188 | Page: 35 | Tags: non ADDRESS That Lubbock fight KO'd ... be meeting Councillor Bill Cain in the boxing ring after all. Mr. Lubbock, 36-year-old one-time Oxford University amateur boxer, is M P for Orpington., Kent. He and Mr. Cain, 50-year-old Liberal member of Orpington town council, had planned to fight next ... Published: Tuesday 30 March 1965 Newspaper: Daily Mirror County: London, England ORPINGTON BOXING BOU ... ORPINGTON BOXING BOUTS. . MAN KNOCKED OUT OF RING. . A sensation was caused during a boxing tournament at Orpington Village Hall on Thursday last week, when one of the contestants was knocked clean out of the ring and fell on his head at the feet of two ... Published: Friday 23 April 1937 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England AMBULGAMIA. . WH ... had to be abandoned owing to rain. boxing programme was organised by Mr. Garry Taylor, of the Crays and Orpington Boxing Club. A comic bout between Larry Eames, trainer to the club. and S. Burgess. chairman of the ... Published: Friday 05 June 1936 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England Busy boxing boys are held to 3-3 draw ... included in an evening's boxing promoted by the Orpington Amateur Boxing Club will go to the disaster fund. i At Ramsgate Martin Young proved too strong for his opponent, K. Otter, and the fight was stopped the fn.( round. An aggressive Michael A Idous gained ... Published: Friday 04 November 1966 Newspaper: Kent Messenger & Gravesend Telegraph County: Kent, England ... Westerham will be teaming up’ with Orpington Boxing Club and the Spitfire Boxing Club Biggin Hill for several joint promotions as well as providing fight fans with a higher grade of boxing On Tuesday November 3 ... Published: Thursday 17 September 1987 Newspaper: Sevenoaks Focus County: Kent, England BOXING AT CRAY.. A b ... (dhortlands); Jeff Thomas (Kent House) v. A Manlier (Tunbridge); George Tucker (United Dairies) v. Eric Young (Orpington and District Boxing Club); rzid Evan (0. and D. 8.0.) v. Charlie Phillips (London); Edgar Westbrook v. George Clark (both 0. and D. 8 ... Published: Friday 28 May 1937 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England ... collage at Cambridge in A PARTY of 40 Including boxers from Sir Winston Churchill Boxing Club and Orpington Boxing Club returned triumphant from Cornwall recently group twin club Penryn and Falmouth ABC winning ... Published: Wednesday 26 November 1986 Newspaper: Sevenoaks Focus County: Kent, England ... Bathurst. King. Russell. Kimber. Leach, Pol Land. Emment. Graham's the boy Two Oid Actomans were on the boxing bill at the Orpington Amateur Boxing Club in Kent lair week. ,Graham Scarrou was the (but to appear. He used an of fettive left jab and a powerful ... Published: Thursday 25 October 1973 Newspaper: Acton Gazette County: London, England This season Westerham win be teaming up with Orpington Boxing Club and Spitfire Boxing Club Biggin for joint promotions The Orpington and Westerham Boxing ... Published: Friday 18 September 1987 Newspaper: Sevenoaks Chronicle and Kentish Advertiser County: Kent, England within the club) went to club president Mr Maurice Ingleton The trophies were presented by Mr W Silvester president of Orpington Boxing Club and chairman Mr Melvyn Shorter and Mr Doug Sayers vice-chairman of the Sir Winston Churchill ... Published: Thursday 29 October 1987 Newspaper: Sevenoaks Focus County: Kent, England evening’s action is available Sir Winston Churchill Boxing Club are now working towards a big dinner show set for Thursday (October 16) at the Marlowe Rooms in Sidcup in connection with Orpington Boxing Club The ... Published: Friday 10 October 1986 Newspaper: Sevenoaks Chronicle and Kentish Advertiser County: Kent, England ORPINGTON LADS' CLUB. The Village Lads’ Club is doing well, and the comfort of having a good room with plenty of amusement is demomstrated by the numbers which turned up last Thursday evening. St. Mary Cray Troop of Scouts sent up two ... Published: Friday 29 March 1912 Newspaper: Eltham & District Times County: London, England of 11 boxers from the St Mary's club, Chatham, managed to get a contest when they travelled to a show at the Rosecroft Club, Orpington. Tony Thompson impressed in only his second bout by out pointing 8. King, of Orpington, in an entertaining ... Published: Wednesday 15 December 1976 Newspaper: Kent Evening Post County: Kent, England They are facing the first hurdle of the national schoolboys boxing championships in the Kent semi-finals at Rosecroft Working Men’s Club, Orpington. The Chatham team is Geoffrey Morrall (Sheerness Secondary), David Brincat (Walderslade Secondary), Andrew ... Published: Thursday 17 January 1974 Newspaper: Kent Evening Post County: Kent, England They are facing the first hurdle of the national schoolboys boxing championships in the Kent semi-finals at Rosecroft Working Men’'s Club, Orpington. The Chatham team is Geoffrey Morrall (Sheerness Secondary), David Brincat (Walderslade Secondary), Andrew ... Published: Thursday 17 January 1974 Newspaper: Kent Evening Post County: Kent, England MARY CRAY Boxing of an almost pro!essional polish was seen at a tournament by Orpington and District _Amateur Boxing ... Published: Friday 04 June 1937 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England .. ORPINGTON BOXING BOUTS. . MAN KNOCKED OUT OF RING. . A sensation was caused during a boxing tournament at Orpington Village Hall on Thursday last week, when one of the contestants was knocked clean out of the ring and fell on his head at the feet of two ... Published: Friday 23 April 1937 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England ... VILLAGE HALL BOXING. SPIRITED CONTESTS. Mr. Harry Taylor's boxing programme attraeted an enthuniastic crowd to Orpington Village Hall on Thursday last week. and if they were inclined to give npirted advice and criticism to combatants it showed at least ... Published: Friday 05 June 1936 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England The last of the staged events was a series of boxing contests, mostly by well-known local performers, arranged by Mr. Harry Taylor, of Crays and Orpington Boxing Club. . ... Published: Friday 26 June 1936 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England .. included in an evening's boxing promoted by the Orpington Amateur Boxing Club will go to the disaster fund. i At Ramsgate Martin Young proved too strong for his opponent, K. Otter, and the fight was stopped the fn.( round. An aggressive Michael A Idous gained ... Published: Friday 04 November 1966 Newspaper: Kent Messenger & Gravesend Telegraph County: Kent, England Published: Friday 28 January 1949 Newspaper: Bromley & West Kent Mercury County: London, England HILLMAN HIS WAY ... HILLMAN HIS WAY By ALEX GOODMAN JOHN HILLMAN, one of the most talented young boxers in Britain, and already under the watchful eye of several professional managers, won the top prize on last night's Hotel Leofric tournament in Coventry. Hillman, from ... Published: Tuesday 14 November 1972 Newspaper: Coventry Evening Telegraph County: Warwickshire, England Orpington boxer Albert Hillman, who was threetimes ABA junior champion, suffered a cut eye at Eltham on Monday and was unable to fight. “lam furious about it,” stormed Saints matchmaker Brian Williams. Hillman fancied ...

Box32 (talk) 12:28, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

So does Charlie Magri's autobiography mention Orpington Boxing Club in a way that I'm overlooking, or just that he fought Chris Genkin, a "lad from Orpington"? --Belbury (talk) 12:48, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Reference formatting

I have put a line under each reference on the draft page at the bottom, I would be ever so grateful if you could formate the citations / references and then submit the article. Box32 (talk) 13:07, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I've formatted the references for you on the draft, feel free to move them into the article with <ref> and </ref> around them (as is already the case for the Albert Hillman footnote), so that they appear as specific footnotes.

I don't think the draft is ready to submit, though, from those sources alone. --Belbury (talk) 13:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you

Is the wording ok ?

not advertising ?

Once I’ve done to citations I’ll submit it, can you can and eye out for it please. Box32 (talk) 15:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

The main problem is the amount of detail in the sources, that they all appear to be short reports of matches or members. These confirm that the club exists, but not that it is (in Wikipedia's view) "notable".

I'd repeat ScottishFinnishRadish's advice given above:

Mentions are okay for filling out an article, but to establish that it is notable you'll need at least three decent quality sources that are independent of the club covering it in detail. Try and get the three best you can find together.

What are the three best sources you've found that write about the club in detail? Belbury (talk) 15:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

How’s it looking so far ? Box32 (talk) 18:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Surely main stream papers like the Daily mail and the People are notable ?

though the people is no longer a paper ?

there’s multiple paper article off not only local papers but national Box32 (talk) 21:56, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you disrupt Wikipedia. 2601:19E:4180:6D50:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 21:30, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Box32, this needs to stop. Whether the article is promotional or not is not even my concern: it's simply not good enough to be in main space. NONE of the references that I've seen are anything more than articles in local newspapers, and thus I see no reason to assume the subject has encyclopedic significance. Drmies (talk) 21:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

It has several main stream articles from prominent news papers. The people, Daily Mail and the Mirror.

The history dates back to 1912, and is indeed part of our social

history.

the page is a time line of articles cited with non bias as the writer has no alliance to any club or person.

This is more of those reading not understanding the historic value and importance of the boxing history.

The boxers are / were famous and represented their country.

each boxer is notable and all references and citations are correct.

please feel free to change the wording if you feel it’s advertising, but not sure what it’s advertising, as the majority of the persons / people mentioned have passed on. Box32 (talk) 22:11, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying it's advertising. Drmies (talk) 22:19, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok what is the main issue you have with the historic research ?

The references in my opinion are correct with good citations and research into the history time line.

the club though closed / opened as far as I can tell is notable ( MP as President ) also multiple media references with 3 being main stream media notable papers.

the boxers are also notable.

If you can point out which part requires more work please let me know, also please feel free to change the wording. 2A02:C7C:52A1:1200:F402:B000:9DE3:5765 (talk) 22:26, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

The people

The mirror

The Daily mail

are not local papers, they’re national and in some cases international.

Eric Lubbock MP is /was Lord Avery.

so with 3 major news papers cited / referenced the article is notable and of importance as an encyclopaedia, for local, social history and of importance in the sport of boxing.

Also has political importance with regards to lord Avery.

Also notable amateurs who represented England and Team GB.

As far as boxing goes the club / coaches and boxers are very much known in the boxing world. 2A02:C7C:52A1:1200:F402:B000:9DE3:5765 (talk) 22:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

NONE of the references that I've seen are anything more than articles in local newspapers, and thus I see no reason to assume the subject has encyclopedic significance. Wait, I said that already. Also, a pub doesn't become notable because famous people drank in it.

I believe I said "it's simply not good enough to be in main space". I'm looking at it: it's just a long unorganized list of factoids. In one particular year, this happened. In another year, that happened. It produced amateur champions. It was on a border between two counties. And in the middle of it, "Orpington & District ABC is one of the oldest boxing clubs in Kent and is currently located in Pettswood". Why don't you try writing an account that has some organization to it, a narrative of some sort, which indicates also why we should believe this place is notable, before you ask us to look at all these poorly cited things and judge them for their worth. So, just for the hell of it, I looked for your Daily Mail article, the one you say is of "national importance" (even though the Daily Mail is a shitty newspaper that we don't even allow here as a reliable source)--well I can't access it, but "That Lubbock Fight KO'd", neither the headline or the quote you included say anything exciting about the club.

You need secondary sourcing that discusses this organization, not just thingies that mention that something happened there, or who fought there or used the bathroom. Drmies (talk) 01:08, 18 May 2024 (UTC)