User talk:Bernanke's Crossbow

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Hello, Bernanke's Crossbow and a belated welcome to Wikipedia! I see that you've already been around awhile and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help one get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions, you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are interested in learning more about contributing, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! Red Director (talk) 17:57, 4 April 2019 (UTC) Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Rootabaga stories

Hi Bernanke's Crossbow

I was looking at my talk page archive today, and realised I never responded to the question you asked here. It looks like although the edit you highlighted introduced a new ref by the name of "Greenwood", which I hadn't defined at that point, I corrected the error with my next edit, after you has asked me about the matter, by providing the details of the reference. So the current version of the article has no problem in that regard. I hope that answers your query! Thanks, and happy editing.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

@Amakuru: Yes, that's perfect. Thanks, Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 04:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

The Five Strategies listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect The Five Strategies. Since you had some involvement with the The Five Strategies redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:33, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

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Your article, Thrust (statics)

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Moved to draftspace An article you recently created, Thrust (statics), does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please follow the prompts on the Articles for Creation template atop the page. ... discospinster talk 01:58, 3 September 2020 (UTC) Deleted Hello, Bernanke's Crossbow. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Thrust". In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code. If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it. Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! UnitedStatesian (talk) 03:32, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Left response on Talk:Linear form

I left you a response here: Talk:Linear form#Recent edits so that content appears removed Mgkrupa 00:18, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Cyclopentadiene complexes

Cyclopentadiene complexes are extremely rare. Mmaybe you mean cyclopentadienyl or cyclopentadienide or such. --Smokefoot (talk) 20:25, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

@Smokefoot: Sure; if you think those would be a better name for the template, feel free to edit it. IMHO, the philosophical boundary between cyclopentadiene complexes and their cyclopentadienyl and cyclopentadienide analogues is super thin/porous — it depends on the (somewhat) theoretical abstractions of "what is the oxidation state of this covalently-bonded metal?" and "is the ligand-metal bond a full electron transfer or not?" But I'm not a chemist, and I recognize that the community seems to think these sorts of distinctions are useful, so I might have screwed up in distinguishing them in some instances. Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 23:34, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Clearly not a chemist, but not too shabby with verbal acrobatics. Cyclopentadiene has six H's vs cyclopentadienyl or cyclopentadienide, which have five H's. Cyclopentadienyl vs cyclopentadienide falls more into you "theoretical abstractions" category. Happy editing. There's lots to do in the chemistry project even if you are not a chemist's chemist. --Smokefoot (talk) 23:49, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the Sequential space updates

I wanted to personally thank you for the updates you are doing to the Sequential space article. In my mind the previous version of the article had become overly technical and bogged down with duplication and minutiae. The new contents is more readable, focusing on the essential and following a more encyclopedic style with references to outside sources instead of trying to spell out every single detail that one could think of. Thank you! PatrickR2 (talk) 22:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Bernanke's Crossbow

Thank you for creating Lithium tritelluride.

User:SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Thanks for the article!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 01:40, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Accessibility and Unicode characters

Hi Bernanke's Crossbow. I've noticed that you've change changing a lot of LaTeX code (i.e. <math></math>) into Unicode. This is discouraged in Wikipedia for WP:ACCESSIBILITY reasons. Specifically, some readers may be using browsers that either don't render certain Unicode (such as arrows → or ∈ ) or don't render it correctly. In addition, some Unicode characters might not be interpreted correctly by some screen readers. Here are some relevant quotes:

• Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Mathematics#Special symbols - "Not all of the symbols in these lists are displayed correctly on all browsers (see Help:Special characters). Although the symbols that correspond to named entities are very likely to be displayed correctly, a significant number of viewers will have problems seeing all the characters listed at Mathematical operators and symbols in Unicode. One way to guarantee that an uncommon symbol is rendered correctly for all readers is to force the symbol to display as an image, using the <math> environment."
• Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Links - "Do not use Unicode characters as icons; use an icon with alt text instead. For example, a character like "→" cannot be reproduced into useful text by some screen readers."
• MOS:BBB - "A particular concern for the use of blackboard bold on Wikipedia is that the Unicode symbols for blackboard bold characters are not supported by all systems, or that font substitution on browsers often render these symbols in discordant fonts. The use of Unicode characters for blackboard bold is discouraged in English Wikipedia. Instead, the LaTeX rendering (for example <math>\mathbb{Z}</math> or <math>\Z</math>) or the standard boldface must be used."
• Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Mathematics#Fractions - "The use of Unicode precomposed fractions (such as ½) is discouraged entirely, for accessibility reasons" (Footnote) "Characters in ISO/IEC 8859-1 (¼, ½, and ¾) work with screen readers, but others, like ⅐, might not."
• Help:Displaying a formula#Unicode characters - "Non-ASCII Unicode characters like π work in MathML and MathJax but not in texvc so should currently be avoided."
• MOS:FNOF

Other issues with Unicode characters are mentioned here: Wikipedia:Rendering math.

Here are some guidelines from Help:Displaying a formula#LaTeX vs. math template:

The disadvantages of {{math}} are the following: not all formulas can be displayed. While it is possible to render a complicated formula with {{math}}, it is often poorly rendered. Except for the most common ones, the rendering of non-alphanumeric Unicode symbols is often very poor and may depend on the browser configuration (misalignment, wrong size, ...). The spaces inside formulas are not managed automatically, and thus need some expertise for being rendered correctly. Except for short formulas, there are much more characters to type for entering a formula, and the source is more difficult to read.

Therefore, the common practice of most members of WikiProject mathematics is the following:

• Use of {{mvar}} and {{math}} for isolated variables and very simple inline formulas
• Use of LaTeX for displayed formulas and more complicated inline formulas
• Use of LaTeX for formulas involving symbols that are not regularly rendered in Unicode (see MOS:BBB)
• Avoid formulas in section headings, and when this is a problem, use raw HTML (see Finite field for an example)

And some more guidelines

• MOS:FORMULA - "For a formula on its own line the preferred formatting is the LaTeX markup, with a possible exception for simple strings of Latin letters, digits, common punctuation marks, and arithmetical operators."
• MOS:FORMULA - "Even for simple formulae the LaTeX markup might be preferred if required for uniformity within an article. For readability, it is also strongly preferred not to mix HTML and LaTeX markup in the same expression."
• MOS:MATH#PUNC - "If the formula is written in LaTeX, that is, surrounded by the <math> and </math> tags, then the punctuation should also be inside the tags, because otherwise the punctuation could wrap to a new line if the formula is at the edge of the browser window."
• MOS:NOTED - "avoid contentless clichés as Note that, It should be noted that, It must be mentioned that, It must be emphasized that, Consider that, and We see that." "Avoid, as far as possible, useless phrases such as: It is easily seen that ..., Clearly ..., Obviously ..."
• MOS:MATH#TONE - "Articles should avoid common blackboard abbreviations such as wrt (with respect to), wlog (without loss of generality), and iff (if and only if), as well as quantifier symbols ∀ and ∃ instead of for all and there exists." Also avoid abbreviations like "iff", "i.e.", "e.g.", "resp." (spell them out instead: "if and only if", "that is", "for example", "respectively").

Mgkrupa 18:25, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

@Mgkrupa:

• This is a giant mass of text. For some of it, the relevance to my work is unclear. (When do I "use Unicode characters as icons"? Heck, when do I use anything as icons?)
• I have a strong preference for {{math}} in inline text, for many of the reasons listed in WP:Rendering math#Pros of HTML. Also, {{math}} simplifies proper punctuation formatting relative to <math>. I rarely find that preference outweighed by uniformity.
• In general, I think that my use of {{math}} comports with common practices here. I diverge at blackboard bold, which I think the guidelines over-dissuade. Neither LaTeX nor HTML substantially simplifies screen readers' job, and most browsers can reproduce all symbols, including blackboard bold, just fine. The problem is that browsers recognize HTML character entities inconsistently. For example, some browser systems recognize ℝ, ℝ, or &#211D; as ℝ inconsistently at best — but the direct character code (as earlier in this paragraph) almost always displays fine.
• Wikipedia has, in general, maintained a nice balance between inline formulas in HTML and block display formulas in LaTeX until the past few years, when it has started to trend away from HTML formulas. I'd like to see that trend reversed, if possible.
• I don't edit articles solely to convert LaTeX to HTML (not that you claimed I did). When I'm editing the text of a paragraph, I make sure the punctuation is formatted correctly. MOS:MATH#PUNC doesn't emphasize the correct way to punctuate LaTeX equations as much as it ought, so I often find myself needing to adjust the inline equations. And if already I'm adjusting the inline equation, well...it seems apropos to write it using the formatting I prefer.

Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 23:53, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 23:53, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Subgroup distortion

Hello! Your submission of Subgroup distortion at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! -- RoySmith (talk) 23:46, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Subgroup distortion

On 26 September 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Subgroup distortion, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that subgroup distortion theory, introduced by Misha Gromov in 1993, can help encode text? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Subgroup distortion. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Subgroup distortion), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Cite stackexchange

Template:Cite stackexchange has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:32, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

The Romany Rye

You recently added a redlink to Exeter Theatre Royal fire about the play that was being performed, in order to spur its creation. Whilst another editor reverted, I thought the underlying idea was right, so I have now created the outline of the article at The Romany Rye (play), if it is of any passing interest. With thanks. OwainDavies ^(about)_(talk) edited at 19:26, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Translation much appreciated

<3 Thank you. jengod (talk) 04:34, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Plutonium hexafluoride

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Plutonium hexafluoride, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

• A "missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 19:07, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Quotient space (topology)

Hi. I wanted to thank you on having started some cleanup of Quotient space (topology). (hope you don't mind, I just did some further cleanup in the Definition section.) The version before your changes was just full of ramblings. It was again a case of editor Mgkrupa going on an editing spree (back in 2021, 2022) and adding all kinds of minutiae not central to the topic at hand and saying the same thing in a multitude of ways to the point that one can't see the forest for the trees anymore. He did not understand that this encyclopedia is not meant to "teach" (see WP:NOTTEXTBOOK item 6 for example). For background info, there was some backlash at some point and he has improved since. But it still annoys me when I need to wade through all that (there are articles of his a lot worse than this one). Anyway, sorry for the rant and thanks for the editing. PatrickR2 (talk) 05:03, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

​ No problem on both ends, and many thanks for continuing the work; I had to restrain myself from fixing more duplication because I needed to prepare for a meeting with my advisor soon. I feel much the same way about MgKrupa, except that I'm not really sure it's a case of NOTTEXTBOOK. I feel awkward bad-mouthing another editor behind his back in public (especially since I think he did make some positive changes on a few articles), so I'll forbear from commenting further. But yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one cleaning up his carnage here and there. Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 05:16, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree that he has made and continues to make many valuable contributions. Regards. PatrickR2 (talk) 16:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Copper sulfide ‎

The situation with CuS is complicated, otherwise you would be correct to call it cupric sulfide. But the compound is mixed valence with some S-S bonds. As I recall. Its a little like FeS2 not being Fe(IV) but Fe++, S2 2-. Of course if you talk to a physicsy person, they even dispute assigning oxidation states to such highly covalent (semiconducting, glistening) materials. Cu2S is more cuprous as you indicated. Figured you might be interested. Cheers, --Smokefoot (talk) 02:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

@Smokefoot: Yes, I suppose I am curious to know that.

Separately, I do think the formulas on Copper sulfide should be link to the pages currently titled Copper monosulfide and Copper(I) sulfide, whether or not the latter nomenclature is accurate. Is linking to those titles OK, or are there particular redirects you would rather I use?

Thanks, Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 03:20, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Your linking ideas look good to me. Never can be too many redirects etc, almost. --Smokefoot (talk) 11:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Lithium holmium fluoride has been accepted

Lithium holmium fluoride, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Stub-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. It is commonplace for new articles to start out as stubs and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

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Thanks again, and happy editing!

Qcne (talk) 16:02, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Your edit to "Norm"

As is written at Norm (mathematics)#In abstract algebra, the statement that $[E:k]$-th root of a field norm is a norm in the sense of the article (assuming the concept makes sense) is not clear. For example, if $k$ is the field of rational numbers, $E=k({\sqrt {2}}),\alpha =17+12{\sqrt {2}},\beta =1,$ then the triangle inequality ${\sqrt {Nm(\alpha +\beta )}}\leq {\sqrt {Nm(\alpha )}}+{\sqrt {Nm(\beta )}}$ does not hold. Albrts (talk) 16:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Reductive amination

For someone outside of organic chemistry, these articles look similar but to an organic chemist, they are distinct. Reductive amination especially is a well defined topic separate from imine reduction, at least IMHO. This kind of dramatic reorg should be discussed prior to executing. I am all for merging and simplifying, but not in this case. --Smokefoot (talk) 12:48, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Smokefoot:

“ Reductive amination especially is a well defined topic separate from imine reduction. ”

Yes, I agree. I think that

• Reductive amination traditionally includes a (one-pot) precursor reaction to attach the nitrogen.
• Nor does it require specifically imines, and i.e. also includes nitrile reduction (maybe this is wrong?).

I also think

• Our current page on nitrile reduction incorporates both catalytic hydrogenation and stoichometric metal reductants
• Currently there isn't enough material that we should split the two.
• We could should do the same for imines: have a single page on reduction that includes both catalytic and stoichiometric methods.
• Such a page would certainly include the current content of Hydrogenation of carbon-nitrogen double bonds.

Likewise,

• Most of the current reductive amination page content discusses imine reduction but neither the nitrogenous precursor nor nitrile alternatives.
• Consequently that content could should move to the hypothetical unified imine reduction page.
• Once a page on imine reduction exists, the page on reductive amination needn't include the material on imine reduction in great detail; in can "incorporate it by reference" (as the saying goes) by linking to the unified imine reduction page.

That's what I tried to achieve with my merger. Did I fail to achieve it, fail to explain it clearly enough in edit summaries, or fail to choose an desirable goal? Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 22:42, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I could say a lot but, the main thing is that these move-merge actions require consultation with our colleagues.

Additional comments and opinions:

Hydrogenation of carbon-nitrogen double bonds is awful. The author, a fetishist organic grad student, wrote many articles that I have been chipping away at for years. His refs are narrow and the artwork is inferior. But, he writes facts, and narrow facts are one of the great impediments to establishing an encyclopedic overview.

• I recommend that reductive amination be left alone. Its a super well developed and useful. But you can put the article to a vote.
• Re Nitrile reduction is sorta stand alone. Again, IMHO.
• Organic chem "culture" is deep and almost impenetrable, FYI. --Smokefoot (talk) 23:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Smokefoot: Thanks for the advice. Just two more quick points of agreement:

  • I was ambiguous above. I too agree that nitrile reduction should be left alone; I just meant it as a model for a hypothetical "imine reduction" page (which I'll put to a vote when I get a chance).
  • "Hydrogenation of carbon-nitrogen double bonds is awful." is the genesis of this whole shambles.

  Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 23:53, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I am trying to avoid offering advice, except to ask around. --Smokefoot (talk) 01:14, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested moves

Please note that edits made directly to the Wikipedia:Requested moves/Current discussions will be overwritten by the bot and deleted. If you would like to comment on move requests, please use the linked article talk pages. Best, Dekimasuよ! 05:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Nice to meet you

You're an excellent Wikipedia Event lab partner. :) best, jengod (talk) 01:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@Jengod: Aw, thanks! You're great too! Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 02:13, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Campbell 66 Express (February 18)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by DoubleGrazing were:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Campbell 66 Express and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:15, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Bernanke's Crossbow! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:15, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Bernanke's Crossbow. Thank you for your work on Cumenol. Aviram7, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good Work 😊

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Aviram7}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

~~ αvírαm|(tαlk) 05:05, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Query

Hello, Bernanke's Crossbow,

I am puzzled that you nominated Towerlands Tram Road for deletion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Towerlands Tram Road) and argued that the page should be deleted as OR and then copied it to your User space (User:Bernanke's Crossbow/Towerlands Tram Road). If you thought the article was unacceptable for main space, why are you saving a copy of it? And if you thought you could improve the article through editing, then why did you nominate it for deletion instead of just improving it? Thank you for any clarification you can provide. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:38, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@Liz: I don't think Towerlands Tram Road should be stored here on Wikipedia. I think it is a good piece of historical original research, and ought to be *somewhere* on the web. I saved a copy intending to look for a better host and then ask Roger Griffin if it would be possible to reupload the material there, but I don't plan to re-add the content to Wikipedia's mainspace. Hope this helps, Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 02:31, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

"Factor through" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Factor through has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 9 § Factor through until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 21:55, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Normal Values for the Henderson - Hasselbach equation

I don’t think it was clear that 24 and 40 are typical average numbers for bicarbonate and pCO2 at sea level. Actually the blood gas machine measures pH and pCO2 and then calculates a bicarbonate value using the Henderson–Hasselbalch equation. Reknihtdivad (talk) 19:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Emmdas07: Yes, that was why I removed those numbers. If you agree with me, then why did you revert? Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 20:24, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I did not agree that the numbers are pulled "out of nowhere". There was a statement that "Adding the other normal values, we get" but that didn't seem clear.

I think the statement I added clarifies where these numbers come from.

When I did the revert I meant to add a comment and expected that clicking the publish button would pop up a comment window. I explained the rational on the subsequent edit which did pup up the comment window. I guess the revert is not actually attached to the revert itself which was not my intent.

I think the typical numbers would be familiar to clinicians and nicely illustrate the use of the equation. I like it that way but that is just my opinion. I am interest in what others have to say. Reknihtdivad (talk) 22:11, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

What i meant to say was "I guess the comment is not actually attached to the revert itself which was not my intent." Reknihtdivad (talk) 22:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Emmdas07:

• In general, I tend to look askance at WP:EXAMPLES in WP pages whose primary WP:TOPIC is not math, philosophy, or law, because otherwise articles on applied science tend to degenerate into a WP:TEXTBOOK-like set of worked problems (see especially my first link). I freely admit that I may remove examples to excess; WP:TEXTBOOK notes that "examples intended to inform rather than to instruct may be appropriate for inclusion in Wikipedia articles."
• I think that if "the blood gas machine measures pH and pCO2 and then calculates a bicarbonate value", then
  1. metabolic acidosis should say so explicitly and
  2. the sample computation ought to have information flowing in the same direction. That is, the computation should determine a bicarbonate concentration from pH and pCO₂ values.

Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 00:59, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I think a statement in the article that is as you say "the blood gas machine measures pH and pCO2 and then calculates a bicarbonate value" is a good idea. The rearranged equation would be in an unusual form. Most people would recognize the Henderson - Hasselback equation in its usual form. Clinicians, doctors, nurses and respiratory therapists are always handed all three numbers to them and don't use the equation. Reknihtdivad (talk) 01:34, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

You obviously do a lot for Wikipedia and I am glad that you do. Keep it up.

Also some people might think that this is a medical article and should only be edited by those with medical credentials of some sort. I don’t think so at all. I am glad to see someone with an interest in math and chemistry in this. Keep it up. Reknihtdivad (talk) 12:03, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@Emmdas07: I have adjusted the article following our seeming concurrence detailed above. The partial pressure and concentration values ought to have units given, but I don't know what they should be, so the numbers are unitless right now. Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 17:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

The numbers for PaCO2 are in millimeters of mercury (mmHg), I guess probably kPa in Europe. By the way, PaCO2 with little a is for arterial blood and PACO2 written with a capital A is used for Alveolar PACO2.

HCO3- is milliequivalents per liter (mEq/L)

The pH is the negative logarithm of the hydrogen ion concentration in moles per liter.

Clinicians tend to throw these numbers around without using units but I think you are right in an article like this they should be given.

The normal numbers are usually reported as a range like 35–45 mmHg for arterial PCO2 because some variation around the mean is of course normal. The Wikipedia article on arterial blood gasses  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arterial_blood_gas_test is an excellent reference. There is a table it it labeled "Pathophysiology sample values" which shows just single numbers, HCO3− = 24 paCO2 = 40 paO2 = 95 pH = 7.40.

Thank you for helping with the chemistry, math and the knowledge of Wikipedia in the way articles are supposed to be written. Reknihtdivad (talk) 01:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)