Talk:Warriors (novel series)/GA3

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GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Sadads (talk) 02:06, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A little about myself: I am an English and History undergrad, with all kinds of crazy interests. Though I have not done much with Children's literature, but I am active in WikiProject Novels, I hope to help in as many ways as possible. I do have a real life, and this review may take up to a week, I will make comments below in sections for you to respond to and a checklist of the GA nomination requirements, which I and only I will check off. If I am for some reason neglecting this review or am not reviewing this article properly, feel free to request a new reviewer, Sadads (talk) 02:06, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Requirements

  1. Well-written:
    2. (a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; Doneand
    (b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.  Done[1]
  2. Verifiable with no original research Done:
    3. (a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
    (b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose); [2] and
    (c) it contains no original research  Done.
  3. Broad in its coverage: Done
    4. (a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic; [3] and  Done
    (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style) Done.
  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. Done
  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. Done
    6. [4]
  6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: Done
    7. [5]
    (a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; Done and
    (b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. Done[6]

Comments on quality

Lead

First, this is a good article, why are there so many references in the lead. If the lead follows WP:Lead then those facts should be available elsewhere in the article. If the facts are vital statistics, the line in the infobox should have the citation.Sadads (talk) 02:11, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Settings and Character's section
  • Do we need to list all of the clans and their traits here? It is overwhelmingly long and unimportant in general to describe the traits of each of the clans, and the whole social structure of their lifestyles, could we make this even more concise? Most of this section relies on the books themselves not on the critical secondary sources, such as the field guide or book reviews, so with this much detail you are also beginning to push the limits of Original Research, Sadads (talk) 02:20, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ok, I have changed the see also the main and will delete some information that is covered in the Characters article already.
  • Warrior code and Tribe of Rushing Water ? that doesn't need this much depth, too much Sadads (talk) 02:22, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Lets try the condensing these things then, considering how many companion works and literary criticism you have found for much of this, I wouldn't be surprised if you could write a whole article on the society of the Warrior's series without doing Original Research, Sadads (talk) 16:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clan hierarchy should be covered more extensively in the characters article, here a paragraph or two would suffice, and, by the way, each of the terms shouldn't be in bold, Sadads (talk) 02:23, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done, shortened. Derild4921☼ 16:17, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Remember to fix the references you broke, Sadads (talk) 16:27, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Series section
Inspiration and origins
I don't really care about this part. Derild4921☼ 15:55, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • clarify who she is in "When she reveals this, Jayfeather and Lionblaze to realize that she is the third cat in the prophecy, as the beavers were in fact very far away" under the header "Warriors: Omen of the Stars", Sadads (talk) 01:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • also, "he fifth book of the series was also revealed as "The Forgotten Warrior" where one lost cat may return to the lake home." needs a citation if the title of the book isn't common knowledge and you are going to leave the citations for the other upcoming books (which I recommend), I place Template:cn there to help you find it, Sadads (talk) 14:23, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Images
  • The article seems to be a little under illustrated, is there anything that would make the article have a little more visual diversity that is not fair use? Especially in the first couple sections. Maybe the covers to the box sets of the sub-series? I know that would be more fair use stuff, but it would give a lot more visual diversity to the page, Sadads (talk) 16:30, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Other books section
I removed the unsourced statement. I can't find a source for it (and it certainly is not mentioned on Warriors Wiki, which often has really obscure facts). Brambleclawx 22:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, will do. I just finished my first read all the way through will do another one this evening, and double check refs, Sadads (talk) 18:07, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Grammar and style

I am finding a whole lot of grammar and style issues throughout this whole article, especially in the plot section for the series. Please read through this section very carefully, aloud and make sure that it says exactly what you mean it to say. I am bound to be missing things in my read, the more eyes on it the better, Sadads (talk) 01:48, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'll try my best with this. Derild4921☼ 14:32, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Anything you can do, would be great. We are closing in on a well written article, I will give it a few more through reads this week (I am still only about 1/2 through the article as you can probably tell by my comments). I will give a solid hour of review either today or the next day, trying to polish some more, Sadads (talk) 14:35, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've copyedited the article a lot, and it's prose is very tricky, partly because of the complex plots. I'll try to make it better again...Brambleclawx 22:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Editions
Sources
  • Overall the sources look reasonable, I am going to take them on good faith because this is not an FA review. A few trouble spots: Not so sure about all the Amazon refs, usually they can be found in other locations, if they are the only source you can find right now that is fine for GA definitely not for FA ( the best books of 2007 ref is fine). Also, the formatting on the last several have "Hunter, Erin" as the work, is this intentional? Doesn't make sense to me, all of those are written by "Erin Hunter", so in every citation format I know, that needs to be at the beginning. That is the largest inconsistency I noted. Sadads (talk) 23:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment(s) from Airplaneman
  • Paragraphs in the lead reduced from five to four (disregard the edit summary; apparently, I can't count).
  • Paragraph 3: In addition, the series has a website that the authors update with news. – aren't there games, promotional items, and other stuff on it? This sentence makes it seem like it only contains news.
Comments

The "themes" section really is lacking in the sources department. There's an entire paragraph and a few sentences with nothing. Perhaps this can be remedied? WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 14:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Missed that, thanks, definitely needs sources, Sadads (talk) 14:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Will do, just finished changing the refs. Derild4921☼ 14:31, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Now Done. Derild4921☼ 14:59, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Round 2 comments

I am reviewing the article a second time, this time reassessing how the articles is written stylistically and keeping an eye out for OR and other issues like that, Sadads (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OR issues
  • In "Setting and Characters" the sentence "StarClan cannot influence events in the real world; however, in Firestar's Quest, Spottedleaf visits Firestar and Sandstorm, and treats an injured warrior, showing that StarClan indeed has some level of effect on the real world.[4]" makes an assertion based on the evidence found in Firequest, therefore is original research, please remove or modify or find a source, Sadads (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Better summarization
  • Overall, I think this is looking in much better shape for lengthiness involving plot, etc. However, I think paragraph 4 of "Warriors: The New Prophecy" could be summarized better, it seems to give a little too detailed approach to the politics of the tribe. Gloss over more detail that can be covered in the individual book articles, Sadads (talk) 17:23, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Style issues
Missing refs
  1. ^ Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style is not required for good articles.
  2. ^ Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.
  3. ^ This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.
  4. ^ Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of constructive editing should be placed on hold.
  5. ^ Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.
  6. ^ The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.
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