Talk:Thomas Matthew Crooks

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Thomas Matthew Crooks article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 7 days

This article was nominated for deletion on 14 July 2024. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Thomas Matthew Crooks. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Thomas Matthew Crooks at the Reference desk.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Current events

This article is part of WikiProject Current events, an attempt to expand and better organize information in articles related to current events. If you would like to participate in the project, visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.Current eventsWikipedia:WikiProject Current eventsTemplate:WikiProject Current eventsCurrent events articles

Donald Trump Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Donald Trump, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Donald Trump on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Donald TrumpWikipedia:WikiProject Donald TrumpTemplate:WikiProject Donald TrumpDonald Trump articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pennsylvania Low‑importance

	Pennsylvania portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Thomas Matthew Crooks be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Why is it discussed for deletion?

Many failed assassins have their own wiki page and info, like Reagan, Ford and even Andrew Jackson all have their failed assassins a wiki page of their own, I feel like it should be kept 2600:100C:B204:5D73:38E2:6BE9:5F0A:D7B8 (talk) 12:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about all these who dont have their own Wiki pages? Trade (talk) 12:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then express your concerns on the deletion page, not here. Sir MemeGod ._. (talk - contribs - created articles) 13:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This page should not be deleted. BrendonJH (talk) 13:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We also know a whole hell of a lot more about those other failed assassins. Seems irresponsible to repeat information circulating so early in the press; these kinds of stories tend to evolve very quickly and have a lot of incomplete, out of context info circulating. Just look at the comments on this tall page: what few bits of info that are "known" about this person's politics are being made suspect. I read that a reporter spoke to this person's father who implied that he hadn't even spoken to law enforcement yet and was trying to figure out what was going on himself. Seems prudent to show some humility and patience with this one. 2600:1700:8D70:1490:8DA9:3F2C:7129:547 (talk) 16:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yearbook photo

It is unclear what year that yearbook photo took place. Can we get a confirmation on whether it was his senior year or another year? Kingturtle = (talk) 13:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, now that photo has been deleted. Awaiting new version. Kingturtle = (talk) 14:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracy of $15 donation.

The $15 donation remark should be deleted as it's speculation. The city listed on the donation does not match Thomas' (Bethel Park), the full name is not mentioned, and there is a Thomas Crooks in a northern suburb of Pittsburgh (the city listed); he works for a construction company and volunteers at a local YMCA. Who is much older and still alive. 2603:6011:A600:84B1:B196:E0F:2E48:A108 (talk) 13:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed this too. 24.167.35.28 (talk) 14:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is being reported as fact by a number of reliable sources, including the BBC and the New York Times. Is the donation's attribution questioned in any reputable source? If so, such a reference would be worth adding to the article. GhostOfNoMeme 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt the NYT would answer a request for better evidence - and their errata/retractions are rarely of anything substantial, tending to belong more in the "the font was actually Geneva" category - but the BBC might be another matter, has anyone asked them?... ELSchissel (talk) 15:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The address listed on the donation form (2506 Milford Drive, PA 15102 is exactly Bethel Park (https://www.google.com/maps/place/2506+Milford+Dr,+Bethel+Park,+PA+15102). That Pittsburgh was listed on the form was undoubtedly a minor mistake because this zip code is a suburban part of Greater Pittsburgh. 100.15.106.249 (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No exact address is listed on the donation, only a zipcode (see: The National Post Article featuring it). If you have proof otherwise, please provide it. 2603:6011:A600:84B1:98CA:4ED4:C5B4:42BF (talk) 17:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per the original FEC filing there is an address on the contribution - you can view the file here: https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=Thomas+crooks&two_year_transaction_period=2022&min_date=01%2F01%2F2021&max_date=02%2F01%2F2021 Katealamode (talk) 17:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is all WP:OR; Wikipedia only reports what reliable sources have stated as fact. Once a RS has disputed this, then by all means, introduce the dispute into the article. Kcmastrpc (talk) 17:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Make Thomas Crooks redirect here?

The football coach seems to be significantly less relevant than this guy, perhaps it should be Thomas Crooks (Football Coach) or at least make a disambiguation page KyleSirTalksAlot (talk) 16:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disgree- I think that the redirect links on either person’s Wikipedia page would be fine, maybe something like “Not to be confused with the American football coach: Thomas Crooks” A guy from murica97390 (talk) 16:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait for now, but I imagine Thomas Matthew Crooks will end up being the primary topic for Thomas Crooks. C F A 💬 17:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments about uncertainty of political leanings

I don't know how to word this, or if it's even NPOV or OR, but I feel that it needs pointing out that the current reports are just based on what little information is available in public registers.

My current best wording to go before the paragraphs about the donation and his republican registration:

Although being named within hours by the FBI as the shooter, initial reporting on his political believes or a possible motive have so far been based on scarce publicly available information.

Anyone else feel the same or want to word it better? the information vacuum won't stay like this for long, but I think it should be pointed out that this is article a 1000-piece puzzle where we only have a few pieces right now. EditorInTheRye (talk) 16:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thats not a bad idea IMO NAADAAN (talk) 16:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Photo

Perhaps his driver's license picture, as released by NBC News, is the best candidate for a free photo so far. IANAL but driver's license pictures, which are taken by machines, fit a very strict standard under AAMVA standards (p. 34) and hence doesn't allow for any original authorship or creative input; it is uncopyrightable in the U.S. per the Copyright Compedium (p. 17). Maybe the Commons PD-automated template would be a good fit for this. NAADAAN (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

good idea Gahror (talk) 17:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno, a human still has to press a button to take the photo so I assume it's like a photograph taken by a photographer with a camera. In that case it'd be copyrighted by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Some states have public domain release for governmental works but I don't think Pennsylvania is one of them. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 18:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Primary documents

I removed a posted image containing info on Crooks as well as personal details of other people, presumably still living, not related to this controversy, per WP:BLPPRIVACY and WP:BLPPRIMARY. We can cite reliable sources that have examined primary documents without needing to showcase the documents themselves, public domain or not. We don't need to turn this or any article into a scrapbook of court documents, receipts, and voter registration records, especially if it increases risks to other people's security. --Animalparty! (talk) 17:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grammar

Where it says “he donated $15” it should say “he had donated $15”, as the text has just said that afterwards he registered himself as a Republican. 86.31.178.164 (talk) 17:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fix Some Information and Grammar

The amount of people he shot needs to be plural. And I believe he shot 4 people Including Trump, 2 Males and 1 Female leaving one of the males dead. Tdwizew (talk) 17:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

nvm about the plural part... Tdwizew (talk) 17:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"was allegedly purchased by his father[4] to fire eight rounds from a rooftop"

Come on! What kind of misleading statement is that? Dad buying a gun for his son for this very specific purpose? Movies have blooper reels, I guess this one makes the en-WP reel. 2003:C6:3742:EEB8:8C09:30D:D977:8BC1 (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed EvergreenFir (talk) 18:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

feels like the “he had a discord account” bit is unnecessary

can’t edit it out myself since it’s locked obviously, but it’s what it says on the tin. most people have social media accounts, and it doesn’t seem to be directly related to what he’s infamous for. he wasn’t plotting it with friends on discord or anything, it’s just fluff. 70.57.80.178 (talk) 18:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Unless he shared something there that's relevant to the shooting, it should be removed. Nythar (💬-🍀) 18:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]