Talk:Mother/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

The use of 'mom' instead of mum in the West Midlands

Granted, I am not from the West Midlands, but I have visited there many times, and have never heard 'mom' used instead of mum. I'm wondering if this is either of POV pushing (I'm not sure how, but anyway....), or perhaps a mistaken opinion due to the accent? Is there anyone from the area who can actually confirm or refute that the non-UK version is used? It seems odd and unlikely. Sky83 (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Sky83 is absolutely correct "Mom" is NEVER used anywhere in the Midlands be it West (such as Worcestershire), East (Leicestershire) or any of the Metropolitan towns such as Birmingham/Coventry. If anything, "Mam" is used. With family and friends in the aforementioned towns as well as Harrogate and Lincoln and, as a Brit, I can definitely say that the only place I've heard "Mom" used is in North America. The "add on" sentence should be removed. --Stepneygirl (talk) 00:59, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I, however, grew up in the Midlands and frequently heard "mom" in place of "mum" - especially in the West Midlands where I regularly saw it written as "mom", too. IndieSinger (talk) 19:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Untrue-I'm from the Midlands and everyone I know says "our mom", not "mum", "mam" or anything else Corporalflashback (talk) 19:55, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Just wanted to add a further confirmation as someone that grew up in the West Midlands that the most common pronunciation and spelling, at least in the Black Country, is mom. 79.79.183.12 (talk) 23:22, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I've lived in Stoke and Birmingham and mom is certainly never used there, so usage must be very localised within the West Midlands region. I won't modify the article but I'm going to add a citation request. --Ef80 (talk) 13:30, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Do you think Mom is an American word for Mum and that the latter is the correct spelling in England? Think again. The word Mom is widely used in the Midlands.

"Mom and Mommy are old-English words, words that are stilled used in Birmingham and most parts of the West Midlands, we all use the term Mom and Mommy never Mum or Mummy, as here the correct spelling is Mom and Mommy has been for hundreds and hundreds of years, when people from the West Midlands went to America all those years ago they took our correct spelling with them, hence they use Mom and Mommy and we still do in the West Midlands. Here in the West Midlands the words Mum and Mummy are frowned upon as they look and sound wrong, thankfully our local schools teach our correct spelling of Mom and Mommy and the kids still come home with handmade cards with out correct Mom and Mommy Spelling on.

I believe parts of Scotland use the Mom and Mommy term too, as I have relatives there and whenever I visit them, they and the people I visit or see use the term Mom too, however I'm not sure how widespread its use is.

We in Birmingham and the West Midlands get annoyed when people wrongly think we are using American words, when the word Mom and Mommy aren't American they were British to start with, it's just unlike the West Midlands other areas changed their spelling."

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/blog/2006/04/mum-and-mom.html --24.94.251.19 (talk) 08:14, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

In Theory? No.

Currently, with advances in reproductive technologies, the function of biological motherhood can be split between the genetic mother (who provides the ovum) and the gestational mother (who carries the pregnancy), and in theory neither might be the social mother (the one who brings up the child). A healthy connection between a mother and a child form a secure base, from which the child may later venture forth into the world.[1]

In theory? No. It's not a matter of theory. The wording should be changed here. Also, referenced or not, the last line is a bit POV. --68.117.130.98 (talk) 09:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you on the first point, and have made the change. As for the second, sourced POV is okay—our goal is not to have no point of view, but to maintain a neutral point of view—but it is kind of a silly statement that really doesn't say much at all. Any suggestions for improvement? Kafziel Complaint Department 23:13, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

change to text: female to feminine in regards to the social mother....... Social Motherhood (must be view from the position of the child) and is not instinctual but it is a acquired skill & ability employing feminine human abilities,,,,,,,,it is not a sexually dependent Human function or ability, there is no scientific / reasoning assertion that it is, religious and cultural conflict over this and all make exceptions allowing traditional Family role reversal today . Self Evident. Although social conditioning / indoctrination may disable males from these human skills and abilities and visa verse in regards to the father social role employing human masculine abilities. The reduction of Human beings to be male (masculine Human abilities)or female (feminine Human abilities) has been the most insidious act of tyrannical rule destroying the family & subjugating the individual. It, Sexual discrimination, should not be supported. Robert Cassel RobertMimiC.Gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.98.83.247 (talk) 17:13, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

A real mother

Can we have a picture of a pregnant woman, instead of the "migrant mother". And since this is an article about mothers in general, can we perhaps get a real woman replacing the mother of the elephant child? Faro0485 (talk) 08:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Migrant Mother is a real and notable mother, as well as a featured picture. As discussed at incredible length above, most photos of modern mothers are either of lesser quality or are blatant self-promotion.
The picture of Parvati is meant to accompany the "mythical mothers" section. I do think there are probably better pictures to use as an example of a mythical mother, though. Kafziel Complaint Department 12:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Title section typo

I can't figure out what was meant here: "...and it is also poneither will serve as the social mother..."--Tyranny Sue (talk) 13:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Typo in the 'Famous Motherhood Figures' Section

It lists Eve, mother of Cain and Able - it should be Abel . This one jumped right out at me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.42.103.64 (talk) 22:28, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

There was actually quite a bit of needless and incorrect stuff there. The section is for famous mother figures, not famous female figures who also happen to be mothers. Cleaned up. Kafziel Complaint Department 22:50, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Statistic should be reworded

"68% of women aged 15 to 44 are mothers in Mississippi..."

Unless it is extremely crowded there, I think this should read "68% of women in Mississippi aged 15 to 44 are mothers." Squidd (talk) 16:29, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 112.134.32.108, 24 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

si:අම්මා 112.134.32.108 (talk) 08:16, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Done -Atmoz (talk) 16:16, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Mediation

Mediation was requested regarding the lede image of this article. I see no evidence of recent discussion here preceding the request. Is mediation relevant and ripe at this time? Please review Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-10-27/Mother. Thanks Hipocrite (talk) 08:08, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Mother

Why did we get rid of the picture of the migrant worker mother? 68.50.224.118 (talk) 04:39, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

It was removed unilaterally by Origen01 (talk · contribs) diff. I've restored it since it's a Featured image after all. Ashanda (talk) 04:44, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Arnation, 8 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} I would like to begin to add a section about Lesbian mothers and motherhood. I have more information about other issues relating to this topic but this is the first section so far

Lesbian Motherhood

Lesbian Motherhood, these two terms are usually at odd against each other. Lesbian vs. Mother, you are either one or the other. The possibility for Lesbians to become Mothers has increased over the past few decades thanks to new techniques and technology. The revolution of motherhood through the Lesbian perspective originally occurred with women who were in a heterosexual relationship and later identify as lesbian. Another way for lesbians to become mothers is by choosing adoption and/or being fostering parents. There is also the option of self-insemination and clinically assisted donor insemination, these are forms of artificial insemination. As technology has advanced it has allowed more Lesbians to become mothers through In vitro fertilization. [1].[2].

Example

Just in this last year a movie called The Kids Are All Right (2010) looked at the dynamics of lesbian motherhood and the issues that can arise around insemination and the decision to know the sperm donor. The more the public is exposed to Lesbian Mothers and see how they are like any other mother, the more possibility for understanding and inclusion into society structures.

Social Standing

Lesbian Mothers are currently held lower in relation to other mothers within the social hierarchy partly due to the fact that it is threating to the socially constructed ideas of motherhood. It is the married, white, heterosexual mother who is held at the top of the pyramid. Followed by single mothers, teenage mothers, and foster mothers, who are all considered marginally accepted versus lesbian mothers who are left off.[2]. There is the argument that Lesbian Mothers are “unnatural” because they do not have children through heterosexual relations out of love, which is considered “normal”. They are also seen as unnatural because of the preconceived ideas of whom a lesbian is and who a mother is and that these stereotypes do not go together. As society becomes more aware of Lesbian Mothers and the further stereotypes are addressed that are restricting motherhood from their acceptance, the more socially accepted Lesbian Motherhood may become.

References

  1. ^ "Lesbian parenting: issues, strengths and challenges". Retrieved 2011-01-25.
  2. ^ a b Mezey, Nancy J (2008). New Choices, New Families: How Lesbians Decide about Motherhood. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 9780801890000. Cite error: The named reference "hooks2000" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).

Arnation (talk) 07:33, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Done Bold edit request by new user. I expect this to be contested, so prepare to discuss on this talk page. Thanks. -Atmoz (talk) 01:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I would like to make a few edits to my original post about Lesbian Motherhood and add another section to this topic of Lesbian Mothers and Motherhood

Lesbian Motherhood

Lesbian Motherhood, these two terms are usually at odd against each other. Lesbian vs. Mother, you are either one or the other. The possibility for Lesbians to become Mothers has increased over the past few decades thanks to new techniques and technology. Lesbian motherhood originally occurred with women who were in a heterosexual relationship and later identify as lesbian. Increasingly, lesbians are becoming mothers by choosing adoption and/or being foster parents. There is also the option of self-insemination and clinically assisted donor insemination, these are forms of artificial insemination. As technology has advanced it has allowed more Lesbians to become mothers through In vitro fertilization. [1].[2].

Lesbian Mothers are currently held lower in relation to other mothers within the social hierarchy partly due to the fact that it is threating to the socially constructed ideas of motherhood. It is the married, white, heterosexual mother who is held at the top of the pyramid. Followed by single mothers, teenage mothers, and foster mothers, who are all considered marginally accepted versus lesbian mothers who are left off, this is often referred to as 'marginal mothers'.[2] [3]. There is the argument that Lesbian Mothers are “unnatural” because they do not have children through heterosexual relations out of love, which is considered “normal”. They are also seen as unnatural because of the preconceived ideas of whom a lesbian is and who a mother is and that these stereotypes do not go together. As society becomes more aware of Lesbian Mothers and the further stereotypes are addressed that are restricting motherhood from their acceptance, the more socially accepted Lesbian Motherhood may become.

Just in this last year a movie called The Kids Are All Right (2010) looked at the dynamics of lesbian motherhood and the issues that can arise around insemination and the decision to know the sperm donor. The more the public is exposed to Lesbian Mothers and see how they are like any other mother, the more possibility for understanding and inclusion into society structures.

Parenting

Parenting roles in a heterosexual couple is divided between the mother and father but in Lesbian relationship the parenting roles become more united. It is often referred to as co-parenting in which there is less emphasis on the biological mother and a shared caregiver role. In many co-parents they referred to themselves as ‘parents’ rather than ‘mothers’ and the mother was often used to refer specifically to the birth mother [4]. Often times the parenting roles of Lesbian couples are assumed to directly simulate the heterosexual “traditional" roles of mother and father, when in actuality there is a shift away from this towards a transformative model [4]. In these new family structures the role of the sperm donor must be negotiated in terms of whether they will be a part of the child’s life and take part in the parenting. The donor may be included and see the child on a more frequent basis, possibly a few times in one year or not at all.

It has been noted that Lesbian couples have many strengths resulting from the way they structure their parenting such as flexible gender roles, teaching tolerance and acceptance of diversity, and extended supportive kinship network that creates many role models for the kids [5]. Yet there are critics saying Lesbian-headed families are not able to raise children appropriately because there is a lack of or no father figure in the child’s life and it will be harmful to them [3]. Myths about Lesbian mothers parenting abilities include that they fear the kids will be gay when they grow up in a Lesbian–headed household which is negative in terms of the masculine heterosexual dominant society.

Many institutional barriers have been put into place to stop Lesbians from becoming mothers particularly because they are threaten the way traditional family structure by creating their own unique family structure[6]. This includes restrictions on adoptions and fostering abilities, custody rights of the child and even the exclusion from reproductive technologies available such as in-vitro fertilization and clinical insemination [6].


References

  1. ^ "Lesbian parenting: issues, strengths and challenges". Retrieved 2011-01-25.
  2. ^ a b Mezey, Nancy J (2008). New Choices, New Families: How Lesbians Decide about Motherhood. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 9780801890000. Cite error: The named reference "hooks2000" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  3. ^ a b Hequembourg, Amy (2007). Lesbian Motherhood: Stories of Becoming. New York: Harrington Park. p. 70. ISBN 9781560236870.
  4. ^ a b Ryan-Flood, Róisín (2009). Lesbian Motherhood:Gender, Families and Sexual Citizenship. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. p. 181. ISBN 9780230517486. Cite error: The named reference "Ryan-Flood2009" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  5. ^ McNair, Ruth (2002). "'Lesbian parenting: issues, strengths and challenges'". Family Matters (Spring–Summer): 40–50.
  6. ^ a b Plummer, Kenneth (1992). Modern Homosexualities: Fragments of Lesbian and Gay Experience. London: Routledge. p. 99. ISBN 0-415-06420-1. Cite error: The named reference "Plummer1992" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).


Arnation (talk) 23:00, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I would like to add these section to Lesbian Motherhood

Lesbian Motherhood

Lesbian motherhood, these two terms are usually at odd against each other. Lesbian vs. Mother, you are either one or the other.

Becoming Mothers

The possibility for lesbians to become mothers has increased over the past few decades thanks to new techniques and technology. Lesbian motherhood originally occurred with women who were in a heterosexual relationship and later identify as lesbian. Increasingly, lesbians are becoming mothers by choosing adoption and/or being foster parents. There is also the option of self-insemination and clinically assisted donor insemination, these are forms of artificial insemination. As technology has advanced it has allowed more lesbians to become mothers through In vitro fertilization. [1].[2].

Many institutional barriers have been put into place to stop lesbians from becoming mothers particularly because they are threaten the way traditional family structure by creating their own unique family structure[3]. This includes restrictions on adoptions and fostering abilities, custody rights of the child and even the exclusion from reproductive technologies available such as in-vitro fertilization and clinical insemination [3].

Natural vs. Unnatural

There is the argument that lesbian mothers are “unnatural” because they do not have children through heterosexual relations out of love, which is considered “normal” to the dominant society. They are also seen as unnatural because of the preconceived ideas of whom a lesbian is and who a mother is and that these stereotypes do not go together.

Place in Society

Lesbian mothers are currently held lower in relation to other mothers within the social hierarchy partly due to the fact that it is threating to the socially constructed ideas of motherhood. It is the married, white, heterosexual mother who is held at the top of the pyramid. Followed by single mothers, teenage mothers, and foster mothers, who are all considered marginally accepted versus lesbian mothers who are left off, this is often referred to as 'marginal mothers'.[2] [4].

As society becomes more aware of lesbian mothers and the further stereotypes are addressed that are restricting motherhood from their acceptance, the more socially accepted lesbian motherhood may become.


Parenting

Parenting roles in a heterosexual couple is divided between the mother and father but in lesbian relationship the parenting roles become more united.

Co-parents

Co-parenting in lesbian relationships consists of less emphasis on the biological mother and more on the shared caregiver role. Many co-parents referred to themselves as ‘parents’ rather than ‘mothers’ and the mother was often used to refer specifically to the birth mother [5].

Parenting Roles

Often times the parenting roles of lesbian couples are assumed to directly simulate the heterosexual “traditional" roles of mother and father, when in actuality there is a shift away from this towards a transformative model [5]. It has been noted that lesbian couples have many strengths resulting from the way they structure their parenting such as flexible gender roles, teaching tolerance and acceptance of diversity, and extended supportive kinship network that creates many role models for the kids [6]. Yet critics say lesbian-headed families are not able to raise children appropriately because there is a lack of “father figure” in the child’s life it will be harmful to them [4]. Myths about lesbian mothers’ parenting abilities include the fear that the children will be gay.

Family Structure

In these new family structures the role of the sperm donor must be negotiated in terms of whether they will be a part of the child’s life and take part in the parenting. The donor may be included and see the child on a more frequent basis, possibly a few times in one year or not at all.

Example

Just in this last year a movie called The Kids Are All Right (2010) looked at the dynamics of lesbian motherhood and the issues that can arise around insemination and the decision to know the sperm donor. The more the public is exposed to lesbian mothers and see how they are like any other mother, the more possibility for understanding and inclusion into society structures.

Statistics
  • According to US census data, an estimated 270, 313 American children were living in households headed by same-sex couples in 2005 [7].
  • According to the Child Welfare Information Gateway, between 8 and 10 million children are being raised by gay parents [8].
  • According to the US Census Bureau of Household and Family Statistics in 2000 One-third of lesbian households and one-fifth of gay male households have children [9].
  • U.S. National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study found that just 2.8% of the teens in the research identify as gay or lesbian, consistent with statistics in the general population [10].

References

  1. ^ "Lesbian parenting: issues, strengths and challenges". Retrieved 2011-01-25.
  2. ^ a b Mezey, Nancy J (2008). New Choices, New Families: How Lesbians Decide about Motherhood. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 9780801890000. Cite error: The named reference "hooks2000" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  3. ^ a b Plummer, Kenneth (1992). Modern Homosexualities: Fragments of Lesbian and Gay Experience. London: Routledge. p. 99. ISBN 0-415-06420-1. Cite error: The named reference "Plummer1992" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  4. ^ a b Hequembourg, Amy (2007). Lesbian Motherhood: Stories of Becoming. New York: Harrington Park. p. 70. ISBN 9781560236870.
  5. ^ a b Ryan-Flood, Róisín (2009). Lesbian Motherhood:Gender, Families and Sexual Citizenship. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. p. 181. ISBN 9780230517486. Cite error: The named reference "Ryan-Flood2009" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  6. ^ McNair, Ruth (2002). "'Lesbian parenting: issues, strengths and challenges'". Family Matters (Spring–Summer): 40–50.
  7. ^ Gartrel, Nanette (2010). "'US National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustments off 17-year-old Adolescent'". Pediatrics. 126 (1): 1–9.
  8. ^ ""Gay Parents- How Many Children Have Gay Parents in the US?"". Retrieved 2011-02-28.
  9. ^ [http:// http://groundspark.org/our-films-and-campaigns/thatfamily/taf_statistics ""Statistics on US Families""]. Retrieved 2011-02-28. {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help)
  10. ^ ""New Study Offers Remarkable Statistic on Teens Raised by Lesbian Mothers« Human Rights Campaign". Retrieved 2011-02-28. {{cite web}}: Text "HRC Back Story”" ignored (help)

Arnation (talk) 07:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

("Social Role") Weakly sourced: Sweeping claim for 1990s peak and later return to "tradition"

I find the last paragraph in the "Social Role" section problematic. It states that: "Also around the 1970s, Western attitudes towards the role of women and mothers in society began to change. Females were given more opportunities within the workforce and this resulted in more females becoming mothers for the first time at a later age. This trend peaked within the 1990s, but has since returned to a more traditional view point of fathers being the main breadwinner and mothers taking responsibility for the home and children."

Although some the first part is pretty uncontroversial, the claim that the trend peaked in the 1990s is not sufficiently substantiated.

The evidence given for the 1990s peak is a single article which only deals with Australia. I would therefore suggest to either

  1. Remove the claim
  2. Rephrase it to reflect the source (i.e. that it pertains to Australia)
  3. Supplement with additional sources that support the claim for a global return to a "traditional view point"

(PS. I know that "traditional" is habitually used as a shorthand for the "breadwinner dad/stay at home mom" model, but is this in fact a neutral/fitting/accurate term? Is it, in other words, actually "traditional" that men are "main breadwinners" or is it only "traditional" in the context of the "modern, middle class, Western, nuclear family"?)

Mojowiha (talk) 07:46, 24 June 2011 (UTC)


Also, the assertion that 'Females were given more opportunities within the workforce and this resulted in more females becoming mothers for the first time at a later age.' ignores the role of the introduction and widespread adoption of birth control (in particular 'the pill') which provided the opportunity to postpone pregnancy until later in life, and thus increasing the chances of a non-domestic career for women. And it is important to remember that working class (not to mention agricultural) women often had to be part of the workforce due to the inability of one wage to support a family, without this necessarily leading to later motherhood. So the mono-causal explanation of more working women = later motherhood is at least an oversimplification.

This last paragraph in particular is woefully under-sourced, so please expand it both in length and with regards to references.

Mojowiha (talk) 09:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

"conceived" in 1st sentence definition

The previous definition, "A mother ... is a woman who has conceived ... a child " was inaccurate given that many pregnancies do not result in a live baby (whether through miscarriage or intentional termination) and many women who have conceived would not consider themselves (and would not be considered by anyone else) a "mother".

The sole citation for this definition was from allwords.com, not an especially reliable (and certainly not a scholarly) source, and it was a verbatim copy of only one of the definitions on the cited page. I have added three more sources, two of them unquestionably reliable (i.e. the Oxfords). -- TyrS  chatties  01:30, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

Anyone know the etymology of the word Mother, Mom, Mum, and Mam? --24.94.251.19 (talk) 08:17, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 December 2011

The most common number of children a mother has in the U.S. is 8.

65.96.43.42 (talk) 00:29, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

 Not done, needs a source--Jac16888 Talk 00:40, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
This number (8) sounds improbably high, considering that average fertility rate in the US is around the 2,1 children per fertile woman. For 8 children to be the most common number, a large percentage of fertile US women would have to be childless. Also the 2011 statistics from the US Census Bureau indicate show that the average number of own children under 18 in families with children is 1,90, which again argues against the most common number of children per mother being 8.
Mojowiha (talk) 12:29, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

reference #29

I would just like to point out that reference number 29 is a broken link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.49.227 (talk) 23:26, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Tagged {{dead link|date=May 2012}}, thanks. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:05, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

US motherhood statistics section- undue weight to the US and WP:NOT#STATS

I don't think that section belongs here at all. The whole section focuses on a single country - the US, and it's also full of all sort of statistics, which, for the most part, do not bring anything to the article. Also see WP:NOT#STATS. And too much article space is dedicated to only one country in detriment of other countries/regions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skydeepblue (talk • contribs) 19:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

So are there any opinions? If there is WP:CONS it should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skydeepblue (talk • contribs) 19:41, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I removed the section since nobody objected.Skydeepblue (talk) 20:48, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Photo selection

Edit request on 26 September 2012

Could someone please change the picture at the top of the "Mother" page? While "Migrant Mother" is a famous photo, it conveys a sense of sadness rather than joy. The picture at the top of this page should evoke a sense of maternal contentment and fulfillment. As it stands, the picture gives a bad impression of motherhood. As if it is a constant pain and heartache. My mother is very upset about this impression and asked me to request this photo to be changed to something more suitable. Thank you. 76.168.125.190 (talk) 04:31, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. —KuyaBriBriTalk 15:04, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Consensus on changing the "Migrant Mother" picture.

I am trying to establish consensus that the top picture on this page should represent the joy of motherhood. While "Migrant Mother" is a brilliant and famous photo, it conveys a sense of sadness rather than joy. The picture at the top of this page should evoke a sense of maternal contentment and fulfillment. As it stands, the picture gives a negative impression of motherhood, as if it is a pain and heartache. My mother is very upset about this impression and asked me to request that the photo at the top of the page be changed to something more positive. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.125.190 (talk) 16:14, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I support this one. When I saw the pic, it really didn't convey the right emotions the word "Mother" carries. She looks detached in the photo which is not how we portray / should portray in this article. --AJ (talk) 22:11, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Procedural note

   While our documented practice is that new topics start new sections at the bottom of the page (and old topics continue in their respective same sections), we sometimes see a continuation of a discussion in a separate section with at most a shift in emphasis. This page's 7 sections comprise about four topics, and in this edit i am converting several sections into subsections of one or the other of two sections, to reunite the somewhat scattered parts of the corresponding topics.
--Jerzy•t 03:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Mother/child conflist section - infanticide and abortion

I have removed this edit as WP:SYNTHESIS. In fact, the source implies the opposite of what was claimed in the edit. See abstract at [[1]], where in fact it is claimed that "fetuses and newborns are never in identical moral contexts." 78.26 (His Wiki's Voice) 12:49, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Mummy in different languages

Mummy in Portugal is "mamã", the word "mãe" means "mother"; the diminutive "mãezinha" can also be used as "mummy", but it's sometimes ironically meant — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.82.217.41 (talk) 19:10, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

"Mother series"

The usage of "Mother series" is under discussion, see talk:EarthBound_(series) -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 03:30, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Not sure how that is relevant to this article. --NeilN talk to me 03:44, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
It would depend on whether maternal line, and the meaning of progenitor (metaphorical mothers), should have relevance to "mother" or not. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 04:33, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Removing informal synonyms from lede

The article currently begins: "Mothers (or mum/mom/mam(s)) are women who…."

I just removed the parenthesis. Otherwise we might well end up with something like: "Mothers (or mum/mom/mam/moms/mommy/mumsy/mumsie/mamma/mami/mutti(s))…" — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 14:57, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Etymology and psycholinguistics of words for mother

Edit request on 19 March 2012

could you please add this picture in the article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_story_of_a_word.jpg something like mother is a common word in indo-european languages? or ma root?

Example: Mother word with 'm' sound root is common in all indo-european languages

82.137.15.68 (talk) 14:58, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

 Not done The article does not lend itself to etymology of the word, and you will have to supply more information. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 01:50, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 March 2013

In the etymology section the root word ma for mother; Hebrew אימה (ema) should be added to the list as it has been in use for millennia. 24.188.106.70 (talk) 05:55, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: I don't think we need every part of the word in the section, especially if it only covers less than half of the word. Mdann52 (talk) 12:30, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Right, and Hebrew is from a different language family, so there is no evidence that it is a cognate of English mother. Besides, we'd also have to bring in the other Semitic and Afroasiatic cognates of אימה (ema) such as Arabic أم (umm) — then perhaps representatives of every other language family on earth! — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 15:30, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

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For the etymology section: "Mama" Is used in every known human language

The word "Mama", with only slight derivations (and always meaning ones mother), is one of only a handful of words that are used in every known human language. This has been theorized to be due to it being a word from the original root human language (first language used by humans) that is theorized to be the ancestor of all other African, European, Asian, Australian-Aboriginal, Native American and Polynesian languages. All human languages are believed to be descended from this original "proto-language".

Another theory holds that the universal use of "Mama", or very slight derivations, is because it may be hard-wired into the brains of all baby humans. 208.54.86.132 (talk) 13:59, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Exception

In Georgian "mama" (მამა) means father. The Georgian word for mother is "deda" (დედა). --Mebop (talk) 20:46, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Developmental theory

   While i'm afraid i can't offer any more verifying reference than the preceding 4 advocates for having the article cover the linguistic observation(s), i recently heard on NPR the assertion that as the motor nervous system develops, M is the first consonant (or was it in fact the first phoneme of any kind?) that comes under enuf control for the child to start the process of treating adults' responses to its vocalizations as reward stimuli and thus of acquiring conditioned vocal responses to specific landmarks in its environment. Since the mum is the most salient landmark for the vast majority of infants, it would be bizarre if the first sufficiently distinct sound were not the one to get attached to her.
   <sickhumor> Does anyone have data on the results of echoing back to an infant each of its uses of P, and not echoing M until the child has attached a no-consonants-but-Ps term to something? (I thot i recalled that B.F. Skinner or E. R. Guthrie had said "every psychologist should have a dog and a child", but my searches strike out.)</sickhumor>
--Jerzy•t 03:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2016

I would like to change the photo to Mother and Child - Pablo Picasso Thank you. http://www.wikiart.org/en/pablo-picasso/mother-and-child-1905

Mjgonline (talk) 01:25, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Not done: I checked the link, and they list the image as under copyright protection. Accordingly, we cannot use it just to illustrate the concept; that's not permitted under the criteria for use of non-free content. —C.Fred (talk) 01:31, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

title text under the pictures is biased.

the only picture that does not specify race is the one of a blond mother and baby. that's pretty one-sided, suggesting that the blonds are the default and everyone else is somehow not.

i'd use a picture that is verifiable, and add in a descriptor (America, Swiss, Aryan, Caucasian, etc.). that would seem far more fair, or pull the descriptors form a few other pictures to balance it out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.54.53.166 (talk) 15:26, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Um, no photos specify race and only two specify nationality/ethnicity. --NeilN talk to me 15:33, 8 February 2017 (UTC)nk
I think IP was referring to the images throughout the article, not merely in the gallery. I made the change I think they were requesting, for consistency across captions, although I don't there was any untoward implication in the original, which also left an African-American-looking mother and child unlabeled. FourViolas (talk) 15:47, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified (February 2018)

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Ma (momma) listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Ma (momma). Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 01:58, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2020

Mother's are also called "Mamu" in Nepal 49.244.23.128 (talk) 12:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. GoingBatty (talk) 13:55, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Mum (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:03, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Mommy (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:02, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Transgender and queer recognition

I feel that this article should, in some aspect, recognize those who give birth and don't identify with womanhood. The exclusion of queer identities also seems to be a larger systematic issue within Wikipedia, if anyone wishes to address it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.241.224.146 (talk) 01:03, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi! I completely agree and was actually thinking about adding a section on trans motherhood. I'm still working on drafting it but if anyone has any suggestions or things they would like to see highlighted please let me know. --Maralogan (talk) 18:59, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Currently planning to begin a new section on Queer Motherhood. Under that I'll be focusing on information about Trans Motherhood. Any thoughts on the same-sex relationships section under non-biological mother? I'm thinking about leaving that information there but eventually adding in more information under Queer motherhood about lesbian and bisexual motherhood but let me know if you have other thoughts!--Maralogan (talk) 20:11, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
You should be careful not to violate WP:UNDUE. The subject is presented from a global perspective, and should not be focused on the situation in Western countries. Also, the subsection "Motherhood in same-sex relationships" should not be in the section "Non-biological mother", because motherhood in same-sex relationships is not necessarily non-biological motherhood. Perhaps a section called "LGBT motherhood" is more appropriate, and the section would address lesbian, bisexual, transgender and other relevant topics. 2A02:2F0F:B0FF:FFFF:0:0:6463:C55B (talk) 21:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the recommendation. I believe I've kept the information more broadly/technically focused, but I'll be publishing tonight and please let me know if you think otherwise! Either way, adding more information to cultivate a more globally oriented perspective would add value to this section, now or later. To your second point, I believe you're right, for now I'll cut the "Motherhood in same-sex relationships" from the "Non-biological mother" section and include it under the new "LGBT motherhood" section as "Lesbian and bisexual motherhood." --Maralogan (talk) 22:38, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
I see that the section talks about transwomen, but not about transmen. The OP actually reads "I feel that this article should, in some aspect, recognize those who give birth and don't identify with womanhood.", so the intention of the OP was to address transmen. Note that in most countries (including the UK) the person who gives birth (including transman, non-binary or any identity) is legally a mother, in order for such person to benefit from the legal and medical protections associated with biological motherhood. If there is a section on trans motherhood, then it has to address transmen too. It doesn't have to get into details; it can just say "in many cases transmen maintain fertility and can become pregnant and give birth". The introduction of the section should read "Transgender motherhood refers to the parenting relationship between a trans parent and their child. Like cis parents, trans parents..." not "Transgender motherhood refers to the parenting relationship between a trans woman and her child. Like cis women, trans women..." as it reads now. Right now, it seems to me that the section is very much focused on the American POV, rather than a global one.2A02:2F0F:B2FF:FFFF:0:0:6463:C79B (talk) 01:04, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi! Thank you for your edits, you're completely correct, I misinterpreted the OP's original ask and I agree, the experiences of both trans men and women are important in this section. I've added three paragraphs in the "Trans motherhood" subsection to illuminate the experience of trans men, briefly addressing testosterone use during pregnancy, medical/social/legal discrimination, and legal labels as "mother." I also adjusted the language at the beginning of the sub-section, since, as you said, experiences of all trans parents should be addressed. Please let me know what thoughts you have on these initial edits/updates. As to your last point, I completely agree, and over the next few weeks I will be working to try and create a more globally oriented perspective. However, I will not be able to make these edits immediately so please feel free to make edits and additions in the meantime.--Maralogan (talk) 04:29, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

"Birthing person" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Birthing person and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 1#Birthing person until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:00, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

WikiEd assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2022 and 23 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Taughey (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Cameron Kletke, Anysoberanis8, Kkminseo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taughey (talk • contribs) 01:51, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

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