Talk:Mohamed Hadid

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Safed Jewish family story has some issues

Hadid's claim that his family lost their home in Safed seems complicated by the fact that he is from Nazareth, which is still an Arab city. I also am not aware of Polish Jewish refugees in Safed. This article casts doubt on his claims. This profile presents a different account and doesn't mention any such Jewish family. I've added text to attribute this story to an Instagram post he made, in the meantime. Zanahary (talk) 02:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are clear discrepancies in MH's family story that have yet to be properly looked into (I am still perplexed as to how his 1980s story of his family leaving of their own accord out of a desire to not live under Israelis transformed into a 2015 tale of being kicked out by Jewish refugees who locked them out of their own house). I'm sure time will tell.
That said, to clear one item up: Hadid was born at his grandmother's home in Nazareth. His family's home was in Safed. Mistamystery (talk) 02:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, gotcha Zanahary (talk) 02:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have two major issues with the quote as is stands in the second paragraph on "personal life"
1) the quote is attributed to Hadid's self published Instagram reel, but cites Mondoweiss. I believe the citation should be to his self published source which is the primary source, and which does not imply editorial review or fact checking
2) Reasonable critisism should be added (e.g. "MH was born after the family left Safed", or "This description does not fit with any historical facts about Muslim and Jew interactions at that time")
IMHO the quote should be removed for lacking encyclopedic value being self-published hearsay. Refael Ackermann (talk) 13:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. MW reports that he wrote these things and attributes to his Instagram
2. Do you have a reliable source criticizing the story’s historicity? ꧁Zanahary꧂ 15:27, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My mom. And not in the meme sense. My mom was born 1940 in Safed, her father lived there all his life, and my uncle still lives there. No Jewish holocaust refugees lived in Safed 45-48. Muslims preformed a massacre on the Jew in 1929. Muslims initiated civil war in 47 with a pogrom on the Jewish minority. They later evacuated on the order of their leader. Palmach garrison was 12 men with one mortar (Davidka).
Obviously I'm looking for more written sources.
Meanwhile since the primary (hearsay) source, IMHO it should be the only citation https://www.instagram.com/celebrities4palestine/reel/C7ATjyINY5Z/ Refael Ackermann (talk) 14:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That’s all quite interesting! Unfortunately, we can’t cite undocumented testimony as a primary source, nor can we synthesize unrelatedly published documents of history to present readers with an original analysis of any narrative’s comparative historicity—we have to follow reliable secondary sources. The best we have is MondoWeiss, which is not good. Maybe there’s a discussion to be had about removing the story altogether.
As for removing the MW source, this argument would have us remove every secondary report from Wikipedia. There is no reason to do so. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 18:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Politics

@M.bitton what BLP issues exactly? Incident was widely covered (including by numerous RS) and he also addressed the matter publicly. Mistamystery (talk) 13:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Words like "reportedly" and "allegedly" (used in the source that you added) are there for a reason. M.Bitton (talk) 13:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes except, as per source, he confirmed said alleged behavior in his apology.
Re: politics, it matches section titles on his daughters’ pages. They are likewise not politicians. What would you propose the appropriate section title? Activism? Controversy? Mistamystery (talk) 13:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, words like "reportedly" and "allegedly" (used in the source that you added) are there for a reason. Besides, Wikipedia is not a newspaper. M.Bitton (talk) 13:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so how about:
On April 20, 2024, it was revealed that Hadid had reportedly been sending United States congressman Ritchie Torres "racist" and "homophobic" messages via Instagram in response to Torres' support of Israel. Hadid subsequently issued an apology.[1]
Mistamystery (talk) 21:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not "revealed", per WP:CLAIM: it undermines the point of "reportedly". I'd follow the source: "apologized after allegedly sending". So:
"In April 2024, it was reported that Hadid had apologized after allegedly sending United States congressman Ritchie Torres "racist" and "homophobic" messages via Instagram in response to Torres' support of Israel." BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine by me. Mistamystery (talk) 17:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how something that is described as "reportedly" and "allegedly" belongs in a BLP article, especially given the fact that it has no relevance whatsoever to the notability of the living person. M.Bitton (talk) 17:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This made national and international news (including RS), and his notability and coverage in recent years is very much centered on his Palestinian identity and activism (as is of his daughters, which each have their own according sections pertaining to this such topic).
If it doesn't violate BLP on their pages, it most certainly does not violate it here. Mistamystery (talk) 17:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a massive difference between what's news worthy and what is encyclopedic.
If it doesn't violate BLP on their pages that's a very big if (I haven't checked their pages and don't intend to). M.Bitton (talk) 17:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not about what I think about him or his daughters. It's plain fact that matters connected to his ancestry as a Palestinian are central to him (and are already well represented elsewhere on the page).
Additionally, his reported (and well addressed on the wiki) connections to the SAAR Foundation also make his notability surrounding middle eastern affairs prominent and notable. Mistamystery (talk) 17:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Claims to which "reportedly" and "allegedly" apply are not "facts", least of encyclopedic ones. That's a fact! M.Bitton (talk) 17:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Born"

Why does it say in the "Born" category in the table "Nazareth (now Israel)" if when he was born it was already part of Israel*??

*See Operation Dekel

עמית לונן (talk) 10:45, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Talk:Mohamed Hadid/Archives/2018#Request_for_comment. I think that if we can’t say it was Mandatory Palestine (or anything else), then it was Israel, and the “now” parenthetical makes no sense without an implied “then”. That consensus is six years old, so if you want to initiate a discussion, read through that RfC and comment here responding to the arguments you read for the current infobox text. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 16:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Piña, Christy (2024-04-20). "Mohamed Hadid Apologizes for Sending Racist, Homophobic Messages to Rep. Ritchie Torres". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved 2024-04-22.
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