Talk:Freiburg im Breisgau

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"There are several other towns called Freiburg in Germany."

Which towns do you mean? I just know another Freiburg on the Elbe river, a tiny village, that shouldn't be worth mentioned. If there actually are other towns called Freiburg, we should mention them here with some more data. The above sentence is valid for almost every town, even for Berlin (since there is a village called Berlin in Schleswig-Holstein). -- Cordyph 11:51 Jan 2, 2003 (UTC)

I think that's it. --till we *)

I added that "several other towns". My map has:

  • Freiburg am Neckar
  • Freiburg (Elbe)
  • Freiburg im Breisgau
  • another Freiburg southwest of Dresden

I checked with ZIP codes by Deutsche Post AG and found two Freiburgs (Freiburg im Breisgau with 79xxx, and Freiburg (Elbe) with 21729 as ZIP code) as well as two lots of Freibergs. So it's just two towns in Germany named Freiburg, and Freiberg am Neckar and several other Freibergs. (I changed the article accordingly) --till we *) 18:58 Jan 5, 2003 (UTC)

Freiburg evidently has no history between 1827 and circa 1940 (i.e., literally no narrative in the article for that period). It's important to know how Freiburg fared during the decades leading up to the Third Reich.

- The population of 630,000 at the beginning of the article seems to be wrong. At the end of 2012 it was 224,191. See here: http://fritz.freiburg.de/scripts/fritz/fritz-view.exe?aw=Bevoelkerung/Region%20Bevoelkerung%20insgesamt%202010. I'm not sure where the other number came from so I haven't corrected this myself. Maybe it includes the area around Freiburg? Kaipix (talk) 10:50, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- I have reverted 'entry point', in the introduction, back to 'entrepot'. Whereas the former term sounds like the planned entrance of professional robbers into a bank, the latter term is a generally recognised word implying a settlement commonly used as a means of entrance/distribution into a notional hinterland. I think this captures the essential meaning more effectively. [Welshentag]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.92.165 (talk) 13:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A plaque on the pedestrian and bycicle bridge over the railroad (by the jacket for those who know) says that 450 Jews were deported by the Nazis, not 360 as mentioned in the article. Should this be corrected? What source is the figure of 360 based on? --Linden16 09:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone add more information about the illustrious University of Freiburg? It's one of the top German tertiary education institutions. I believe it deserves a special section in the city's entry. Anyone with good knowledge of the university (perhaps an alumni!) will be very helpful. --Kensai 19:46, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It deserves and has a special article (with a not so fine name): Albert Ludwigs University of Freiburg. --Ikar.us 19:57:54, 2005-09-09 (UTC)

What's wrong with the name? But of course the real name would be "Albert-Ludwigs-Universität zu Freiburg im Breisgau"...by the way I tried to complete the historic section of the university. -- Ecclesia 08:16, 19 January 2006 (UTC) Ecclesia[reply]

The name in English would be Albert Ludwig University. The 's' is wrong here (according to my limited knowledge of English). --Ikar.us 17:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ikar.usFrom your point of view you might be right but the "s" in "Albert Ludwigs University" is a part of the name. I even would say that "Albert Ludwigs University" is a compromise while its real name is "Albert-Ludwigs-Universität zu Freiburg im Breisgau". But I would claim that normally the names of institutions are spelled and pronounced in the language of its origin. Exceptions may be names like Munich or Cologne because lots of people have difficulties to pronounce an Umlaut properly (like there would be one in "München" or "Köln", f.e.). From there the Washington University in St. Louis in German is spelled the same way as in English (s. link in German Wikipedia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_University_in_St._Louis) so a native German speaker following your suggestion would say "Washingtoner Universität in St. Louis", or, overdoing it: "Washingtoner Universität in St. Ludwig". -- Ecclesia 15:08, 20 January 2006 (UTC) Ecclesia[reply]

I changed the section about the Augustinerplatz as the Feierling Brewery's biergarten does not overlook the Augustinerplatz. It's actually a few meters removed and offers no sight whatsoever of the square. Axel Eble 10:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Location

Can someone upload an image of where Freiburg is with relation to Germany on a map? thanks

Vou can tansfer :de:Bild:Lage_der_kreisfreien_Stadt_Freiburg_im_Breisgau_in_Deutschland.GIF
to commons. --Ikar.us 08:17, 15 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I tryed it, and it is already there, so I put it in the article. -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 11:03, 15 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Freiburg During WWII

Can someone add some photo or paragraph about Freiburg was hit by the Air Raid of RAF duirng WWII ? I understand it was the first city subjected to Air raid from RAF. --Hiens 08:37, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The air raid of 10 May 1940 was an accidental bombing by Luftwaffe aircraft, though press reports at the time ascribed it to the Western Allies. If it had been the French or British air forces, it would indeed have been the first air attack on a German city. See the Wikipedia article on the History of Freiburg. Thomas Peardew (talk) 11:23, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am a Freiburger

I was looking up a few things about my last name and found this. What do the locals mean when they say, "If you step in a Bachle, you will marry a Freiburger." Is this a good thing or are they making fun of my ancestors.

I was a student in Freiburg many years ago. Throughout the central

part of the town there are numerous 'Bächle', or 'little streams'. These are freshwater channels, generally 1 to 1.5 meter wide and half a meter deep, running along the edge of the streets, the water coming down from the Black Forest. They look like gutters, but are not. It is easy enough to inadvertantly step into one, if you aren't careful, something that drinking students may be more prone to than others. If you don't break an ankle, you will certainly have wet feet!

I never heard of the saying you mention. But the hazard is one

particular to this town and it is easy to imagine how it might have originated. Fortunatus6 17:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It's neither - they're not making fun of you nor is it necessarily a

good thing. It's just a common saying, some local colloquialism that shouldn't be taken too seriously. Axel Eble 13:53, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

You should keep in mind that in the german language normally a "Freiburger" is

a person living in Freiburg, and not a person whose last name is "Freiburger". I can assure that nobody is making fun of your ancestors.

The tour guides also point out that saying. It is well-known, but just as a cute local saying. LTC (Ret.) David J. Cormier (talk) 20:48, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sister Cities

Sorry, but I never heard that Fryburg/Pennsylvania is a sister city of Freiburg.

You're right an anonymous editor vandalized the article on July 19 and it hasn't been changed since.--CarabinieriTTaallkk 11:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There was never a "local lore" that the Bächle were used as sewers; to the contrary: It is widely known that usage of such led to massive penalties in the middle ages. I have therefore deleted this - as a Freiburger I must say: insulting - sentence, and put something better in it's place. But perhaps can anyone better this sentence, as my english is not the best?Christian Rößler 00:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle for a (unattributed) reference to the bachle as sewers: looks like you could only use it as a sewer at night (abandoned later). Owen Watson (April 2015)

I'm the person who added Fryburg, Pennsylvania to the list of sister cities. My family is one of four that came from Freiburg, Germany in 1823 and started Fryburg, Pennsylvania. There is a small Catholic church in Fryburg Pennsylvania, St. Michael's, with four stained-glass windows - one for each of the four families that came to America and founded the small village. My family name is among those windows, and there's even a street named after my family in the town. I'd like to have the information about the connection to Freiburg, Germany displayed for all to see. Please stop deleting the sister city listing for Fryburg, Pennsylvania. Thanks. (This unsigned comment was added by anonymous user Special:Contributions/24.35.57.0 at 01:19, 17 January 2007)

The section is intended for official sister (or twin) towns. The information about Fryburg and other towns started by Freiburgers could probably be put somewhere else in the article. Lars T. 07:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Or add this information to Washington Township, Clarion County, Pennsylvania and link back to the Freiburg article.imars 08:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

name

If the name of the city is Freiburg im Breisgau, why isn't this article called that? Adam 13:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • For the same reason Frankfurt am Main is at Frankfurt, this name is "what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize" (WP:NAME).--Carabinieri 14:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt the majority of English speakers have ever heard of Freiburg, and if they have they probably think it's the one in Switzerland. Why create confusion where none need exist? I propose moving this article to Freiburg im Breisgau. Adam 15:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Mh. I'd prefer to have a vote, I think it's a borderline case... —Nightstallion (?) 17:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. That's why I proposed it rather than did it. I will wait a few days and see what others think. Adam 00:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What do english sources call the town? Which Freiburg is more notable? Agathoclea 16:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't really matter, because the Swiss Freiburg is only called that way in German, in English it's called by its French name Fribourg; even Germans often call the city Fribourg. If one does, however, indeed compare the two cities, one will find that the German city has more than six times the population of the Swiss one, has an archdiocese, a university, which dates back to the 15th century, etc.--Carabinieri 20:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ooh boy. This is a toughie. Well you go to Freiburg's official website and they call themselves Freiburg im Breisgau (granted the im Breisgau are in letters so tiny that you don't notice them at first.) As far as which place English-speakers know better and which name is they use is really tough to judge. What you might do is copy the example of Frankfurt am Main. Leave the topic name as Freiburg and then link to a Freiburg disambiguation page in the first sentence. There is a German Freiburg disambiguation page with the two cities were talking about here, plus the Swiss canton, a region in Germany, and a city in Poland formerly known as Freiburg.
Anther option would be to rename the topic to Freiburg im Breisgau, since it is the official name. People looking for the German city of Freiburg would still see it in the search results or land on a disambiguation page. Is that so bad? imars 21:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

With both Freiburg and Frankfurt, there should disambiguations page called Freiburg and Frankfurt. These should lead to articles on the various Friburgs and Frankfurts, called by their correct name, eg Freiburg im Breisgau, Frankfurt am Main, etc. I don't see why this should be controversial. Adam 04:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Because this Freiburg is the one most easily recognised by English-speaking people... —Nightstallion (?) 11:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

90% of English-speaking people have never heard of Freiburg, and if they have it's probably the one in Switzerland, which despite being smaller is much better known. In any case, so what? Anyone looking up Freiburg will be directed to the one they want - that's the whole point of disambiguation pages. Adam 12:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In English there is no Freiburg in Switzerland. The city is called Fribourg, except in German. Further, how do you get the idea the Swiss city is better known? The reason the Frankfurt article is about the city in Hesse is that most people who type in that word are looking for that city not Frankfurt an der Oder. The same way, most people who type in Freiburg are looking for Freiburg im Breisgau and not Fribourg, otherwise they would've typed in that word. What percentage of the English-speaking population knows the subject of an article is completely irrelevant, as far as picking the title, under which the article will go, is concerned.--Carabinieri 17:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To confuse the matter a little more: according to the articles, Freiburg (i.B.) was founded by Duke Konrad (or Conrad) of Zähringen, while his son Berchtold IV founded Freiburg (now commonly known as Fribourg). Lars T. 15:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well you will have to make up your minds. Nightstallion says "this Freiburg is the one most easily recognised by English-speaking people", and when I dispute this, you say "What percentage of the English-speaking population knows the subject of an article is completely irrelevant." You can't argue both these positions simultaneously. As it happens I agree with you and not with Nightstallion. It is irrelevant, and it is also irrelevant what name people initially search for, because we have disambiguation pages to guide them to the article they want. (That's why Wikipedia is superior to paper encyclopaedias.) What is relevant is the real name of the city, which is Freiburg im Breisgau. I still can't see any good reason not to call the article that, and to use a disambiguation page at Freiburg to direct them to it. This should be the rule for all placenames. Adam 22:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If our opinions are differentm we can in fact argue different position, that's the whole point of a dispute. The only odd thing here is that Nightstallio and I both come to the same conclusion with different arguments. The reason I believe that Freiburg im Breisgau should be located at Freiburg is that it would simply be an inconvenience for everyone looking for the city to have to look through a disambiguation page. This is especially the case with Frankfurt, where the overwhelming majority of people who type in the word will be looking for Frankfurt am Main and not Frankfurt an der Oder. Therefore it makes to have the articles under the shorter versions of the names and have notices mentioning the disambiguation pages at the top. I would, however, be ok with moving Freiburg to Freiburg im Breisgau and Frankfurt to Frankurt am Main if redirects are kept from the shorter names, i.e. that way the cities are under their official names, but people will find them without looking through disambiguation pages anyway.--Carabinieri 12:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Making one mouse-click is an "inconvenience"? Come along now. And no, it doesn't make any kind of sense. There is in fact no city called either "Freiburg" or "Frankfurt." There are however several cities known by these names, which need to be disambiguated. If I search for "Frankfurt" I should expect to be taken to a disambiguation page which directs me to both Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder. I get where I want to go, plus I learn something. This is done, for example, with Portland and Perth. This seems so obvious to me I'm amazed it needs to be argued about. Adam 13:57, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think USA redirects to the United States, UK to the United Kingdom, and LA to Los Angeles, California? Because of convenience, not because Wikipedia is trying to deprive them of finding out that LA is also an abbreviation for Language Arts like the disambiguation page tells us. You may expect a disambiguation page when you search for Frankfurt, but I think most people want to find out something about Frankfurt am Main. They may have read the name of the city somewhere and won't even know they are looking for Frankfurt am Main while scrolling through the disambiguation page. Since the official names of the cities are Freiburg im Breisgau and Frankfurt am Main, I don't have a problem with moving them there, like I wrote, as long as there are re-directs from Freiburg and Frankfurt respectively.--Carabinieri 14:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Call me again when Washington, Freetown, San Diego etc. go to a disambiguation page instead of prominently showing the link to it right below the title. Lars T. 14:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PS: not to mention Fribourg ;-) Lars T. 14:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Carabinieri after a paragraph of argument finishes up supporting my position. Thanks. I'm not sure what position Lars is taking, but his examples actually reinforce my position. When I click Washington I expect to find an article on the city of Washington, and so will the great majority of non-Americans. Instead I find an article on Washington state. Someone has tried to guess what most people who click Washington will expect to find there. This should not be a process based on guesswork. What I should find at Washington is a disambiguation page. I completely reject that view that this causes "inconvenience." Two mouse-clicks is not inconvenience. Adam 23:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My point is that there are guidelines to disambiguation:
Ask yourself: When a reader enters this term and pushes "Go", what article would they most likely be expecting to view as a result? (For example, when someone looks up Joker, would they find information on a comedian? On a card? On Batman's nemesis? On the hit song or album by The Steve Miller Band?)
...
When a user searches for a particular term, he or she may have something else in mind than what actually appears. In this case, a friendly link to the alternative article is placed at the top.
IOW even if you managed to rename this page to Freiburg im Breisgau, the page Freiburg would probably still redirect here instead of being a disambiguation page, so the only difference would be the direction of the redirect. Last but not least, the town is only called Freiburg im Breisgau because there is no other way to disambiguate from possible other meanings in common language — but there is on Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lars T. (talk • contribs) 07:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

To all of which I can only reply - so what? Why Freiburg im Breisgau is called Freiburg im Breisgau is irrelevant. The fact is, that is what it is called, so that should be the name of its article, not a false name, Freiburg. Anyway I am sick of thi circular argument. Adam 07:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Now hold on, there is a big difference between the official name and the common name. There are countless examples of places and people being known by their common names instead of their official names. Canada vs Dominion of Canada, LA vs Los Angeles vs El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles de Porciúncula, America vs the United States of America. That does not necessarily make the common name "false," but for our purposes, we need to be careful when a common name can lead to confusion on the part of the readers of Wikipedia. This is where we do have to second guess. Take the last example, if our reader enters America, is he or she searching for the nation or the continents which Columbus "discovered"? There is a case where disambiguation would really be useful. The others could probably be safely redirected.
Now let's look at Freiburg. I have lived in southern Germany for the last 5 years and studied German nearly all my life and I have never heard anyone refer to Freiburg as Freiburg am Breisgau until I came across this discussion. OK, I am a scientific sample of one (=anecdotal), but I am willing to bet that a number of people here would agree with me. Nor have I ever heard of the Swiss city with the same/similar name. So Fribourg may not be as popular as you think under the name of Freiburg. Nor had I ever heard of the other possible targets for Freiburg that I listed in my earlier comment. My vote (if we are voting) would be for a search for the term Freiburg to land at this article and provide for a disambiguation link to the other Freiburgs at the top of the article. As to whether the article is called Freiburg or Freiburg im Breisgau, I do not really care. What you want to be careful of is when people enter things like LA and land in an article titled, El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles de Porciúncula. To borrow a Germanism, you don't want people feeling like they walked into the wrong movie when they see the title. imars 09:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
While we're at it: A) it's City of Los Angeles. B) Sting should be renamed Gordon Matthew Thomas Sumner, CBE (the title being part of the official name). Lars T. 06:43, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is precisely what I mean, Lars! Sting is a great example. Anyone looking for Sting would be shocked to come across his real name in a search. So that entry definitely belongs under Sting if there are no other major conflicts with the topic title. imars 08:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Although I disagree with him on placing a disambiguation page at Freiburg (for the simple reason that there aren't any other subjects anywhere nearly as well-known as Freiburg im Breisgau, which share this name), I'm going to have to agree with him to a certain extent. There is a difference between El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles de Porciúncula and Freiburg im Breisgau. If you arrive in Freiburg by train, the sign at the station will in fact say Freiburg im Breisgau or Freiburg (Breisgau) (I'm not sure which). Some atlases as well as at least one (the German Brockhaus; I don't know about any others) also list the city under that name. So I would be ok with having the article named Freiburg or Freiburg im Breisgau as long as there is a redirect from the other term.--Carabinieri 17:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PS: The online edition of Britannica uses Freiburg (im Breisgau)'.--Carabinieri 17:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BBC coverage

I just saw something (about an hour ago) on BBC World covering Freiburg (and thought that all those bikes, that is like Lund!). Perhaps someone could find that and link to from this article. -Anonymous Coward08:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous edits

Someone has been making multiple anonymous edits to this article lately, a few minutes apart, and with a lot of English errors. This makes it more difficult and time-consuming to track changes and correct them. The edits are coming from a few German IP addresses. It would be much easier for us en users who watch this page if the anonymous editor(s) would submit their changes over fewer sessions, and be more careful with the English. I am posting a message in German to ask the anonymous editors to consider condensing their edits and signing their edit summaries:

An die anonyme Bearbeiter(innen): Hallo und danke für Ihre Beiträge. Es wäre für uns (en-Benutzer) viel leichter beim Korrekturlesen, wenn Sie mehrere Bearbeitungen auf einer Editiersitzung machen würden, anstatt eine Reihe von kleineren alle paar Minuten zu machen. Wenn Sie Benutzer auf de.wikipedia.org sind, aber keine Lust haben, einen Benutzernamen hier auf en zu schaffen, könnten Sie sich wahlweise durch eine Unterschrift in der Zusammenfassung bekanntmachen, z.B.: [[:de:Benutzer:<Ihr Benutzername auf de>]] oder: [[:de:Benutzer_Diskussion:<Ihr Benutzername auf de>]]. Auf diese Weise können wir besser an diesen Artikel zusammenarbeiten. Danke im Voraus! -Eric talk 06:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gerdvic von Holtzapple

In the section Notable residents, it is stated that Gerdvic von Holtzapple was the last commander of the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg during World War II. However, in the article on the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg, Franz Roestel is listed as the last commander. There must be an error in one of the articles. Coyets (talk) 14:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Even if this guy had ever existed there seems to be no reason why he should have been a notable resident. Almost as importantly, his name sounds much more like something made up by an English speaker than a real German name, and the careless orthography underscores this. I removed this guy as a likely prank. --Hans Adler (talk) 12:25, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Baden Airpark & Ryanair

Ryanair seems to have changed their base to the Basel-Mulhouse-Freiburg Euroairport, can someone confirm this? -- Boggie (talk) 19:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

File:Freiburg Schlossbergturm Panorama 2010.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Freiburg Schlossbergturm Panorama 2010.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on March 18, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-03-18. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! —howcheng {chat} 00:48, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Freiburg im Breisgau, Germany
A 360° panoramic view of Freiburg im Breisgau, a city in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. In the extreme south-west of the country, it straddles the Dreisam river, at the foot of the Schlossberg. Historically, the city has acted as the hub of the Breisgau region on the western edge of the Black Forest in the Upper Rhine Plain. One of the famous old German university towns, and an archiepiscopal seat, Freiburg was incorporated in the early 12th century and developed into a major commercial, intellectual, and ecclesiastical centre of the upper Rhine region.Photo: Armin Hornung
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