Talk:Deforestation by continent

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"Deforestation" vs. "Forest management"

This page, as well as all pages within Category:Deforestation by region use a standard naming convention that was created without discussion/consensus between 2007 and 2009. During the GAC for Illegal logging in Madagascar, a scope issue led to a discussion for renaming the article. Forest management in Madagascar was suggested, but the scope would be identical to Deforestation in Madagascar. As Casliber put it, ""deforestation" has a negative connotation - the meaning of the word is literally the removal of forests and it is almost as if there is no reason attached to it (i.e. mindless removal). "Forest management" implies the use (and also the protection (and in this case violation thereof)) of forests as a resource. Even though it is a bad reason, everyone has a reason for removing forests and using the products."

The question is this: Should we rename not only the article under GAC to Forest management of... but also this page, the category, and all similarly named articles? – VisionHolder « talk » 09:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support My argument is that the root cause of deforestation in general, and illegal logging in particular is attributable to the Forest management policy (or the lack of it) of government agencies responsible for the forest resources in their respective countries, as this paper explains[1]. The use and management of forest resources has many facets, including afforestation, so in order to provide the reader with the context needed to understand this subject, articles such as Deforestation in Ethiopia and Forestry in Ethiopia need to be brought together under one article such as "Forest management in Ethiopia". --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 10:30, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There should be an article hierarchy in this order (hard to show more than one chain in the hierarchy):
Forestry -> Forestry in Ethiopia -> Forest management in Ethiopia
Forestry includes forest management. If insufficient info exists for the "Forest management in Ethiopia" article it would be included in the "Forestry in Ethiopia" article.
Another chain would be:
Deforestation -> Deforestation in Ethiopia
A summary of "Deforestation in Ethiopia" would be in the "Forestry in Ethiopia" article. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 23:25, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In answer to Alan Liefting, without claiming "one hierarchy fits all", I strongly agree with the gist of what you are saying. In the case of Forestry in Ethiopia, an close examination of the article shows that it is more focused on forest management than on the forests themselves. However, if Forestry in Ethiopia were to be rewritten to be more focused on the forests (their location, spicies and other characteristics etc.) then I think your proposed hierarchy works well. In the case of Madagascar, from what little I have read, a very good article could be written about "Forestry in Madagascar" because the forests themselves are varied (dry deciduous, wet tropical) and contain many unique species. Whilst deforestation & illegal logging may be a notable topic in its own right, from the perspective of giving the reader context, I think that giving undue weight one aspect of forestry is a good example of "failing to see the forest for the trees". --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 11:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dunno. Deforestation is a very notable topic in its own right, presented as an environmental and economic problem. Deforestation is just a part of forestry management. We could write about management of water resources, soil maintenance, wildlife etc. I would object to moving the articles to Forest management of because it doesn't do much to identify the particular problem in the title. If however there is considerable overlap as likely I see no problems with moving it to something like Forest management and deforestation in Ethiopia. But I think the deforestation part has to be identified in the title. Personally I think forestry management as a general article and deforestation as a specific insight into that problem are valid as seperate articles and given that we are not paper, I am certain two good encyclopedia articles could be written about general forestry management by country and a paragrtaph in each on deforestation with a
    Main article: Deforestation in
    at the top of the section for a specific article. I'd prefer to keep them seperate in thinking about it as we need to write extensively about both. Deforestation as an environmental problem and forestry management overall giving an adequate balance of the various issues it entails beyond just problems as such. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 10:58, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Supportas an initial step before splitting out for regional articles. For individual countries or regions, I suspect a broader article is best as a first-up, thus "Forest management in Madagascar" etc. Obviously the subject of deforestation is notable enough for its own general article. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:12, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can someone make the object of this RfC clearer? Are there a number of articles that are named Deforestation of Country or Deforestation of Region that may be renamed to Forestry management of Country? What are the reasons for this? Is it something different? --Moni3 (talk) 20:27, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Gavin that deforestation is caused by "forest management" policies. But I can't say that in all cases they should be combined into a single article. Here I think that Casliber's and Himalayan Explorer's suggestions are apt. Basically, if there is only a small amount of information on deforestation in a certain region, we should just include it as a section of the article forest management for that region. However, if there is a large body of information on deforestation in a region (Deforestation in the Amazon, Deforestation in the United States, etc.) then we should have a "Deforestation in X" section summarizing important deforestation info within the "Forest management in X" article, but that section should use {{main}} to link to the longer article that has more extensive coverage of information specifically on deforestation (Deforestation in region X). -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 20:31, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. A number of points:
    • Forestry implies forestry management so having the word management in a "Forest management" article title would be redundant. However, if a "Foresty in InsertCountryHere" article becomes too large it may then be appropriate to split out a "Foresty management in InsertCountryHere". Note that a "Foresty management in InsertCountryHere" article would exclude export volumes, public policy, forestry companies etc. There is already a number of forestry articles at Category:Forestry.
    • I agree with User:Himalayan Explorer and User:Casliber that deforestation is a notable issue and deserves its own articles for some countries.
    • From my experience creating stub articles on specific, notable subjects is far easier than trying to split large articles into siblings at a later stage.
    • There is room for a number of articles: Forestry in Madagascar, Deforestation in Madagascar and Illegal logging in Madagascar are all valid articles. Forestry is a parent article with the other two being sibling articles.
    • tweak for readability-- Alan Liefting (talk) - 21:23, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is a lack of "forest management policy" a type of "forest management" policy? Deforestation has a number of causes clearly; and poorly thought out forest management or the failure to enforce forest management rules play a role, but I would not make the two issues synonymous. Hardyplants (talk) 21:30, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Forests of Ethiopia" would be able subsume all topics related to forests including their management or lack there of. Hardyplants (talk) 21:33, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coming at this from the outside, my immediate reaction is that there seems to be a good case for a name change on the single article, and that likely means it would be a good idea to change the category it is in as well (to a new cat, if required). Expanding that to encompass a whole class of articles (especially when there is no mention of just how many articles and categories this may affect), strikes me as over-reacting to the problem. Deal with one article at a time.
    — V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 09:44, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I think the name change allows for a more comprehensive discussion of the issues. Legal logging can also create serious ecological problems so I think an encyclopedic treatment of such a topic is best done under a general rubric. I would also support User:Jrtayloriv point as well - in certain instances, illegal logging does merit a discussion separate from a more general discussion of forest exploitation. Eusebeus (talk) 14:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I have reread the RfC. Naming all the "Deforestation in Country" to "Forest management by Country" articles is a very bad idea especially since the reason given is to avoid "negative connotations". Is this an attempt to sanitise WP to avoid the harsh realities of what is happening in the real world (ie. the stuff that we should be documenting)? The first thing to do for anyone here is to familiarise themselves with the words deforestation, forestry and forest management. Since these are all notable topics WP can have articles on them for many countries. The deforestation articles are all siblings of the forestry articles. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 00:59, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just so you know, I completely agree with you. If you read the GAC for Illegal logging in Madagascar, I more-or-less was getting at what is being said here. I feel that these are broad, complex topics that merit their own pages. I in no way wish to "sanitize WP," and I am against censoring. I will admit, however, that I am tired of being accused of soapboxing or violating NPOV every time I write something that has any sort of legal or social slant, especially when I take special care to represent things in a balanced, encyclopedic fashion. Admitted, I'm not an expert on forestry or even deforestation, so if Casliber and Gavin were right about softening the image of what I saw as two synonymous topics, then I was willing to give this RfC a shot. The worst thing that could have happened would have been to get no responses. I'm just happy to see some discussion on this. I'm also glad to learn more as everyone articulates their point of view. – VisionHolder « talk » 04:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The ecological consequences and environmental degradation of timber exploitation exist beyond the confines of whether the logging is actually "legal" or not. Setting up "illegal logging" (or deforestation) as an independent topic (although not always) creates a false separation in the discussion of the serious problems associated with the practice generally. I see why, at first glance, you think this might be "sanitisation", but I support this for precisely the opposite reason; it helps resolve the fiction that "legal" logging practices are quite alright. Finally, I should note that a quick review of the literature suggests that "legal" exploitation (i.e. via land grant or similar) in the developing world is frequently obtained through questionable means. Uniting the two discussion under one umbrella allows for a more coherent discussion w/out forcing editors into WP:SYNTH of pre-existing debates. To summarise (and I suspect I speak for Gavin and Cas on this), painting this as somehow a "sanitisation" of the discussion is misleading and unhelpful. Eusebeus (talk) 07:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose systematic changing of all articles I think the pros/cons may be different for each article. ("Forest management" may be a silly title in developing countries where it's basically a free-for-all, for example.) I don't think a discussion here should be used to change the titles of every article, especially when this discussion has not been mentioned on the talk pages of the affected articles. Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Himalayan Explorer's suggestion, use deforestation and management in the title. Or have separate articles. MiRroar (talk) 16:43, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I strongly disagree with the notion that "deforestation" is a subset of forest management, except perhaps if you broaden the term "forest management" to the point where it can encompass almost anything forest-related. And that's not the way the term is normally used. Broadly speaking, although we ecologists like to stake a claim on both fields, "forest management" is forestry, while "deforestation" is geography. Forest management encompasses different types of production systems for timber, non-timber forest products and, somewhat unhappily, things like recreation. It's an applied science. Forest management may or may not encompass the needs of local communities - the whole idea of participatory forest management is a (relatively) new one.

    Deforestation, on the other hand, is the study of land usage. It tends to focus on the conversion of forests to non-forest land use. Remote sensing and GIS have been major tools for studying deforestation for decades. But it also includes touchy-feely ethnographic studies no forester would be caught dead doing. Often it includes a context of economics and policy...while these fields also intersect with forest management, they do so at an entirely different point. Studies of deforestation tend to be phenomenological - they document patterns, they look for drivers of observed patterns.

    Of course, then there's the ecological effects of deforestation and other forms of land conversion (forest fragmentation, etc.) which spills over into landscape ecology (another interface between ecology and geography). The ecological effects of forest management systems, on the other hand, tends to look at more localised phenomena like changes in gap dynamics, wildlife populations, availability to snags for birds to breed in... Obviously there's overlap at all levels, but broadly speaking "forest management" and "deforestation" represent distinct fields of study, and one cannot be easily subsumed into the other. Guettarda (talk) 16:08, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What external source is your strong views based on? I see lots of suggestions to name articles in lots of different ways, but no sources to back up these different approaches. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 11:45, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, it's based on 15-20 years of experience. But I suppose that's not a satisfactory answer. Will try to build a more sourced argument. Guettarda (talk) 15:34, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Appologies, I know very little about this subject area myself, but when I see one good source, like the one I have cited above, I know I have stumbled accross the sourcing equivalent of gold and I am disapointed when other editors don't bother to seek external validation for their views. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 00:12, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, that document discusses the role of forest policy (or, better yet, national development policy as it relates to forest lands), rather than forest management as a driver of, and potential way to control, deforestation. In addition, while it's a nice document, it shouldn't be taken as a "gold standard" - it's very much an example of top-down, policy-driven thinking. It's one approach, perhaps a valid approach, but it discounts the bottom-up, individual-actor approach favoured, for example, by many NGOs and CBOs. And in the world of forest policy, rightly or wrongly, top-down efforts like TFAP (which they reference) have had limited success.
Forest management is a different, but linked topic. Forest management may be guided by policy, either directly (in the case of state-run forest management agencies like the USDA Forest Service), or indirectly in the form of economic incentives and disincentives offered to land owners and tenants. Fundamentally though, forest management is concerned with things which are more driven by the biology of the system being managed. Forest management is concerned with when to cut, what to cut, what to protect, what species to plant, what species to eradicate...in other words, the application of sivicultural and wildlife management practices to meet goals of timber production, recreation, habitat conservation, etc. Guettarda (talk) 22:00, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Patently False Information

In the North America-United States section, someone had the nerve to say that there has been a dramatic decrease in forest area. FALSE. I want sources now! Because according to the National Park Service, the total area of forest space in the United States has INCREASED from 915 million acres TO 955 million acres! Go to youtube, type in 'HowTheWorldWorks response to The Story of Stuff'. I believe it is discussed in part 1. He has the sources to go with his claim, so this entire section is bs. Fix or I will bring this to the attention of the proper authorities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.126.157.213 (talk) 16:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

At present, this article is something of a list, organized by continent and country. The title, "Deforestation by region" is somewhat misleading, I think. Would Deforestation by country be better? DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 20:37, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:34, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ecology

Ecology is the study of the relationship between living organisms,including humans and their physical environment.

Ecology considers organisms at the individual, population and community . Also ecosystems and biosphere level. It can also be seen as the scientific study of the process influencing the distribution and abundance of organisms and the interaction among organisms. Ecology enriches our world and example is studying the food chain in a Wetland area . Chichibaby good (talk) 19:59, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Chichibaby good (talk) 20:00, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The digestive system

The digestive system is a collection of organs that has to do with the digestion of food.

Digestive system is made up of  ;

Alimentary canal:- which is divided in Five main parts namely ;

.1 mouth

.2 Oesophagus(gullet )

.3 stomach

.4 small intestine Chichibaby good (talk) 20:24, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

✍️✍️ Chichibaby good (talk) 20:25, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unbalanced towards certain viewpoints?

I feel like this article uses an excessive amount of adjectives and looks at the subject only at a certain standpoint. I don't think that the language used is quite neutral, am I correct? NotAGenious (talk) 20:55, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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