Talk:Cultured meat

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2019 and 4 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Beep300.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 October 2018 and 5 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ctadelman.

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In vitro -> Cultured?

A unilateral attempt was made to update the term from 'in vitro' to cultured throughout the article.

Whilst I agree it was too bold and lacking in consensus, I think it's a change that should be considered. What do other people thing? Deku-shrub (talk) 21:10, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know who previously did that, but I just changed in vitro to cultured again and then saw the recommendation to use the talk page for changes like that. 'Cultured' is the term that's been used by Dr. Mark Post himself and other companies/academic researchers involved in this research area. There was also the first international symposium on cultured meat this last summer, which obviously used the term 'cultured meat.' I included this as the reference for the definition on cultured meat that I amended, but 'cultured meat' is also used here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095311914608844, among a lot of other journal articles. What do people think? I've not a big wikipedia editor so sorry if changing the page name wasn't proper etiquette... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zassenhausmeera (talk • contribs) 14:30, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also called "synthetic meat"?

Isn't it also called synthetic meat? If this is the case it should be added to the synonyms at the start of the lead.

Exemplary usage of the term: [1] (it might still be misused or underused to list it there; this is why I'm asking here) --Fixuture (talk) 19:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Go add it. It's actually the term I use when I promote the term Deku-shrub (talk) 23:02, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was to merge. (NAC) —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:47, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article clean meat was recently created by a new user TucsonVegan (talk · contribs). As the naming of this topic may be controversial, and there is some new content on the page, I am posting this here for discussion. I propose merging Clean meat to Cultured meat as the naming is more neutral. Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 02:12, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, merge it in Deku-shrub (talk) 18:55, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely suggest merging it, clean meat as a phrase is more a marketing technique and isn't how it is referred to by the vast majority of people in the industry MikeSelden24 (talk) 16:15, 19 September 2016 (UCT)
Agree with merging, but keeping a redirect to this page. Josephguillaume (talk) 08:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Changing the first sentence

The first sentence now contains six(!) alternative names. WP:LEADCLUTTER suggests that "if there are more than two alternative names, these names can be moved to and explained in a "Names" or "Etymology" section; it is recommended that this be done if there are at least three alternate names." Nomenclature discussion is already a section at the bottom of this article, I think we should move it to the top, and move the alternative names from the lead to there. Thoughts? Greg (talk) 18:58, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New problem: all the terms with a positive connotation were kept in the lead while the others were relegated to the nomenclature section. This violates WP:NPOV. As such, I re-added "synthetic meat" in the lead. we also need to add that the meat industry is currently contesting the use of the word "meat" when referring to clean meat, and lobbying the government so that only products from animal may be called "meat". Emass100 (talk) 08:29, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Further developments

I would like to see two developments in this article:

  • Nuancing of the different terms used in the discussion of synthetic substrates called 'cultured meat' - since these terms become 'siloed' as different groups work on, discuss, obsess on some nuances over others.
  • Silo-ing of the discussions on meat replacements, since moral, personal, and social objections to some research and development directions allows those with those objections to focus other 'directions' that avoid those objections (e.g. plant-based meats, etc.). However, the use of GMO ingredients, heme molecule-splitting technologies, the array of concerns around testing meat on animals shape many discussions. MaynardClark (talk) 01:29, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Re-Name request received

Copied from Proposed Mergers Noticeboard:
Rename or merge Cultured_meat with [[2]]. Currently [[3]] redirects to Cultured_meat, however Clean Meat is the modern term of choice, and all content should be listed in a Clean Meat entry rather than a one for Cultured Meat.--ADLangille (talk) 14:50, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss below. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 16:05, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Clean meat seems to be the marketing name in the US, but not necessarily in global use, nor is it descriptive, unambiguous or neutral on the topic. If that changes in a year or so, we can reconsider. Arnoutf (talk) 16:13, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per @Arnoutf: and those in the rename request above. I really hate it when the population buys in to the big marketing pushes of a new, improved, better "terms" or "labels." GenQuest "Talk to Me" 16:27, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose That's a new and commercial term, not a common term. Deku-shrub (talk) 16:38, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Personally, I don't believe that EITHER term is good for what is being done. I'd say for right now that two different articles would be better, but maybe my thinking is orthogonal to the thinking of many others. So, for now, call my vote an Oppose.MaynardClark (talk) 05:41, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MaynardClark, just out of curiosity, what would you think describes what is being done best in a short understandable phrase. (Personally, I do get cultured meat as the end product is meat, and it is based on a cell culture.) Arnoutf (talk) 06:48, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: While the article raises some interesting topics (i.e. confusion between yogurt cultured and cultured meat), it also raises reasons not to relabel it for the time being. Particularly, that the term is favoured by supporters of the product (including the authors of the article). The article is also non-critical on the term, and does seem to present a US centric position. The comparison clean energy is not less problematic than the yogurt culture cultured-meat in my personal opinion, as you can clean any meat (by washing it) while this makes no sense for energy. So in my opinion the term clean meat would replace one possible confusion with another.
My suggestion would be to wait discussing name change until there is at least an order of magnitude more reports favouring the new term, rather than the 42% now reported (which could easily be caused by media power of supporters) Arnoutf (talk) 07:09, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because "clean meat" is a blatantly promotional term, and would compromise the neutrality of this article. we need to remember that "cultured meat" is also a term the industry came up with to better sell their products. I would support changing the name back to "in-vitro meat", as it is a term with neither a positive nor a negative connotation, and has similar google search trends as "cultured meat". Emass100 (talk) 08:38, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've heard friends who want to start what they call 'clean meat pet food' businesses with their own proprietary product when they refer to biopsied cells on plant-based matrices (innovations here are constant). But again, as I tried to clarify above, those who object to including advocacy for plant-based meats in a group CALLED 'clean meat' are going to oppose renaming the article, and I will stand with them and maintain my OPPOSE vote, opposing the suggested name change for the article. MaynardClark (talk) 17:07, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 April 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus on any of the alternatives proposed. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:57, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cultured meat → ? – I don't think that the current title "Cultured meat" is the WP:COMMONNAME. So now, we need to decide on a new title, perhaps "Lab-grown meat". GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 14:35, 25 April 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:05, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Move to Synthetic meat. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:11, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Lab-grown meat: Such meat is grown, not synthesized. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:02, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "lab-grown meat" – it doesn't accurately convey the topic of this article. The article covers meat created with technology instead of from slaughtered animals, whether it's produced in a lab or a factory. The topic is broader than lab-grown meat. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cultured meat" is somewhat imprecise, since meat produced by agriculture is also cultured meat. The AOCS calls it "clean meat" here as does this article "Clean Meat: The Naming of Tissue-Engineered Meat". Perhaps, indeed, "tissue-engineered" is not a bad compromise. although tissue engineering concentrates mostly on its use in surgery. 94.21.253.28 (talk) 04:15, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd suggest "in-vitro meat" as a plausible alternative, but IMO "cultured meat" is fine. Contrary to the comment above, I understand the term "cultured" in the sense of tissue culture, not cultivation of land/livestock. I would oppose the use of "lab-grown" because it assumes that production takes place in a laboratory, which is not necessarily true. Archon 2488 (talk) 12:42, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Cultured meat" seems like a marketing term rather than an accepted neutral name. It's not as blatantly biased as "clean meat", but also not really neutral either. It reminds me somewhat of "cultured diamond", although I suppose the term "cultured" is more accurate when applied to meat created by tissue culturing than when applied to a process for manufacturing a crystalline material. —BarrelProof (talk) 00:34, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's a new technology so it'll likely take a while before there is a widely accepted neutral name for it. I'm no expert in marketing or PR by any means but didn't a lot of now common names start off as marketing jargon? Of course this is totally subjective, but to my ear "lab-grown meat" does not sound neutral as it invokes the stigma of "frankenfoods" and seems to invite a new iteration of the hysteria targeted against GMOs. Moreover, if such meat were to be produced at scale, I think the production facility would more accurately be described as a factory than a laboratory. Quorn is produced from a fungal culture but isn't usually described as "lab-grown". Archon 2488 (talk) 12:57, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with all of that (except perhaps the use of the word "hysteria"). —BarrelProof (talk) 17:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support "Unkilled meat" - no, just kidding. I have no idea what to support here. Let's do a Google search... everything is used. I would like lab-grown meat. Cultured meat is bad for the same reason as the anonymous user above. Synthetic seems weird and unnatural; I would not be surprised to find "synthetic meat" to be tofu or plastic or something, but I would consider myself lied to if lab-grown meat were just tofu. Red Slash 07:12, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    As pointed out above, "lab-grown meat" is too narrow for the scope of this article. The anonymous user you mention suggested clean meat (which seems to have become the industry term) and tissue-engineered meat, either of which could work I think. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:40, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I strongly oppose using "clean meat". That's obviously a POV marketing term, and it falsely implies that the meat of living animals is dirty. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:43, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What about "tissue-engineered meat" then? —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:11, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I modestly propose cell-cultured meat, which distinguishes this from meat "cultured" by any other means, has some real-world use,[4][5][6][7][8] only changes the title a little bit, and doesn't specify the potentially fluid place of growing. @GeoffreyT2000, Rreagan007, BarrelProof, Mx. Granger, Archon 2488, and Red Slash: BD2412 T 03:11, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's OK with me. At this point I am also OK with just retaining the current title ("cultured meat"). —BarrelProof (talk) 05:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Agree. This is a more specific title, and it is to my ear clearer at first what is meant by it, without sacrificing generality by making assumptions about where the meat is grown. I don't think any of the proposed alternatives have clearly been huge improvements, but this is the best of them by far. Archon 2488 (talk) 09:53, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • None of these options are perfect, but this proposal is an improvement on the current title. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:17, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose a move - The relevant policy here is WP:COMMONNAME. There is no evidence so far of anything else being more common than "cultured meat." Different people will use different terms, including journalists trying to sensationalize as "lab-grown meat" (which is also an incorrect term as mentioned by another user above) or "frankenmeat" or industry proponents using "clean meat" or "sustainable meat." Cultured meat is also the term used most frequently in scientific publications if you search on Scholar. Bodole (talk) 16:01, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Misnomer

The word "cultured meat" may unnecessarily suggest fermented meat, which is a historic product, similar to how "cultured milk" refers to fermented milk.. obviously industry heads are eager to bill their product with as appealing a name as possible, as in any industry. 71.121.163.225 (talk) 09:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Free images

The Good Food Institute has shared a number of high-quality images of cultivated meat under Wikipedia-friendly licenses here. They may be useful for adding to the article. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:16, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mass-produced in Israel

The reference refers to a startup which claims to have the capability to "mass-produce" cultured meat. The actual amount is 1000 pounds/day (which is quite small considering the population of Israel with an average consumption of about 1.5 million lbs of meat per day). What is less clear is how much is actually being produced. Such meat is not available in ordinary stores and does not have regulatory approval (is it available at all?). The sentence as phrased gives the impression that mass-production is already ongoing in Israel and that the meat is readily available. 81.5.43.128 (talk) 20:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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