Talk:Black Watch/Archive 1

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Archive 1

To whoever keeps changing the country to "Scotland"

British army units recruit from all over the United Kingdom, so the country isn't Scotland Jimmysales7 (talk) 22:18, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

irish connection

was there ever a belfast black watch?? i saw a picture (probably first world war) where the detail said belfast black watch

irish song

how come the fenian song has its lyrics noted,while the complimentary ones do not —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.253.240.1 (talk • contribs) 14:04, 13 May 2007

Name

I note that "black watch" beats "royal highland regiment" 5-to-1 on Google if you filter out ca and au, which suggests that the former should be the preferred location of the article (since the rule is to use the most common name, a la Bill Clinton instead of William Jefferson Clinton. Too bad this article wasn't linked from Structure of the British Army - I wonder how many other military unit articles are not being linked to... Stan 14:57 May 13, 2003 (UTC)

True. The name is "Black Watch". "Royal Highland Regiment" no longer appears on the badge. (Although it does appear on the badge of the Canadian Black Watch, and their shoulder titles are "RHC" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.191.201.223 (talk • contribs) 05:37, 6 September 2004.

Hunh. The article said The regiment received its current name from Queen Victoria in 1861 when it became "The Royal Highland Regiment (The Black Watch)", but maybe that is incorrect? I looked at their web site, and it just says "The Black Watch Royal Highland Regiment". I see one web page says it changed to "The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment)" in 1931, so I'm going to go with that. Noel (talk) 00:41, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Capture of standard

I have removed the claimed about the Black Watch capturing a standard of the Imperial Guard. The Imperial Guard didn't exist in 1801, when the battle of Alexandria was fought. - Carl Logan 18:11, 11 July 2005

In 1801 they did capture the standard of the consular guard. The consular guard however changed their name to what they are known by now days, the imperial guard (they are the exact same thing). I am guessing that they said imperial guard to avoid confusion. 21st february 2009.

The French standard captured at Alexandria belonged to the 21st Light Demi-Brigade, allegedly known as 'The Invincibles'. It was lost during the battle when the sergeant to whom it was entrusted was wounded and subsequently recovered by a Swiss German soldier of the Minorca regiment. The 42nd never claimed the trophy to be theirs, although this was the source of great controversy some years later. Definitely best omitted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JF42 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Factoid

Here's a factoid that didn't seem to fit into the article anywhere, but here it is. When the regiment was part of the garrison in Bermuda (exact date unknown off the top of my head, I can look it up if anyone cares) the men dug a large pass through the hills to the North of Hamilton (the capital), which is today named "Black Watch Pass" after them. Noel (talk) 00:41, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Change of Title

According to the British Army official website, the Black Watch is now officially called "The Black Watch (Highland Regiment)." Obviously the "Royal" title has been taken out. When did this happen and why?

The Black Watch is no longer a Regiment. As of the 28th of March 2006, it is The Black Watch, 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Scotland (3 SCOTS). I will edit the article to make this clearer once I'm exactly sure of my facts (and if no-one beats me to it). FiggyBee 14:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

I'm going to assume the photo at the bottom of the article where the soliders kilt has been caught in the wind exposing his arse is probably not the most appropriate selection and edit it out. --Xiaou 09:38, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, I read the Anecdotes section after seeing the photo which gave me a different perspetive on the photo's appropriateness. I'll leave it to the discretion of others. --Xiaou 09:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Revert

I've reverted 24.25.54.103's edit about the origins of the name "Black Watch". The Black Watch's own website [1] says "Black" refers to the colour of the tartan, and that seems by far the most common theory. FiggyBee 09:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Reverted Watch

A black watch is the original as the true highlanders formed on occassion. It is the origin of the Naval Commander's Night Out Dinner Party in history. A clan chief is to call the watch and the other faimily memebers are to join the watch. A watch being the soldier's party. A term black was applied when the spiritual leader as the mashall called the party to arms.

A person's spirit was to be at arms when the black watch walked the land called Scotland. A spiritual state where the superego of Freud allowed the man to walk as the Vikings once walked for the watch appears the naval term. A three of four week watch where the party began and ended and the marshal told tails of everyone's great deads and the lost commrade would vanish in the party never to return.

A party would begin and end in the hut of the marshal and the party would exit to walk as the spirit warrior for three to four weeks. On return the ego would reappear to be reminded of the great battle by the marshal who walked as the spirit only. A superego walk for real these days again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 160.253.42.18 (talk • contribs) .

Er, yeah. Whatever. FiggyBee 01:39, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Wood Badge

Boy Scouting Wood Badge uses the Maclaren tartan, not the Black Watch. They look quite different to me. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hong Kong

when was the black watch first stationed in Hong Kong? it sais in the article that "It was the last British military unit to leave Hong Kong in 1997 and played a prominent role in the handover ceremony" but it does not state when it came to Hong kong. Somebody who knows the correct details, please state them in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.86.167.249 (talk) 03:01, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Historic Roots of THE BLACK WATCH

The origin and roots of The Black Watch lie within the Dukes of Argyll branch of the Campbell Clan of Scotland in the UK. The Campbell Dukes of Argyll are historically "Masters of the Royal Household" and being such, "The Black Watch Royal Highland Regiment" is the accurate term for The Black Watch, who originated with The Campbell Dukes of Argyll, presently headquartered at Inverary Castle, Scotland, UK.

The military history of the Campbell Clan (of the Black Watch) dates back to the year 1066 when Archibald, a Norman knight, accompanied William the Conqueror to the Celtic lands, building and utilizing Castle Watch Towers to facilitate defense by enabling their people to see what was coming from afar off. Names like Campobello became, eventually, Campbell. The High Constable to King David I married Beatrix De Campobello and introduced Campbells to Ayrshire.

I notice on the television news and in various public print media at times, that Prince Harry (aka Henry, Prince Charles and Lady Diana Spencer's second son and Prince William's younger brother)is wearing the red hackle indicative of The Black Watch, on the tam of his military uniform. Also, in this Wikipedia article on "Black Watch", isn't that Prince Andrew (Harry's Uncle) I see over on the right in the group picture? Very nice picture, wherever did you get it?

It would be reprehensible to have an article on The Black Watch without acknowledging the Argyll root. In fact, the tartan represented here in this article is identical to the Campbell Argyll Tartan, minus the very thin lines of yellow and white, which permeate the original Argyll Tartan. (That makes the tartan appear more 'Black', I guess, which could be a good thing considering the name of "Black Watch".)

Altogether, this evidence is a strong indication that The Black Watch Royal Highland Regiment is not just common stock, but a regiment of the highest order, originating from farther back than King Robert the Bruce of Scotland, and forward on down through Mary Queen of Scots and her son King James VI of Scotland (who also went on to become King James I of England, Royal Scottish Authorizer of the King James translation of the Bible (one and the same person). In it find a Secret Clue @ Psalm 83:18 re: Campbell Clan Motto, "FORGET NOT".

70.64.145.11 (talk) 05:39, 27 July 2008 (UTC) Gail Christine MacKay Browning Martin Sutherland Campbell Balcaen in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, CANADA aka POET "Chiquita Viva" and Twin to Sophia of Hanover . . . Argyll Descendant.

—Preceding comment added by 70.64.145.11 (talk) 05:11, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

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5-Oct-2007 Merge Proposed

On 5-Oct-2007 User:Necrothesp proposed merging Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) into this article. Given the intervening time I deem the proposal declined and removed the merge tags from both articles. – Conrad T. Pino (talk) 02:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

FWIW I'd support such a merger if it was considered again, the two articles largely duplicate one another. FlagSteward (talk) 09:58, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I have now merged the two articles. Dormskirk (talk) 23:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Inaccurate description

I believe the line "The Black Watch is apparently the subject of an Irish Rebel song, in which they are depicted as a "regiment the devil calls his own" along with B Specials, Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Black and Tans." to be misleading. The song is not Irish, but originated in Northern Ireland amongst the Republican community, and would be known only amongst the marginal Republican community in Eire. Therefore, I suggest replacing the phrase "Irish Rebel song" with "Republican Propaganda" or removing it entirely, as it's popularity is questionable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.62.41 (talk) 11:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Support removal of the sentence, the source is hardly a reliable one. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:36, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
now it has been edited to say "Irish Terrorist", which doesn't follow neutral POV. If the above information is correct, I would also question its notability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.190.9.254 (talk) 18:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Dog's dinner

Both articles are deeply flawed; innaccurate in many places. For a start the evolution of the Regiments titles betweeen 1861 nd 1935 are incorrect and I shall correct that now.

They should definitely be merged and re-drafted. JF42 (talk) 20:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Concur. "Betrayed" and the like partisan fulminations are hardly neutral POV. Lee-Anne (talk) 01:31, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I have now merged the two articles. Dormskirk (talk) 23:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

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Postings in 1966-67

October 1966 - May 1967. Half the battalion served as the British contingent to the UN peacekeeping force in Cyprus.

June - November 1967. A squad of 30 Black Watch volunteers were sent on detachment to Mad Mitch's battalion (1st Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders) in the Aden Crater campaign. Valetude (talk) 18:07, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Disambig

I think this tag should be in two parts:

For the regiment under its pre-1881 denomination, see 42nd Regiment of Foot.
For other uses, see Black Watch (disambiguation).

But I don't know how to edit this in. Valetude (talk) 13:00, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi - I think it is reasonably clear from the article that the Black Watch emerged from an amalgamation of the 42nd Regiment of Foot and another regiment. But I have now made it more explicit in the lead. Dormskirk (talk) 22:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

The Battle of Abu Klea

"It was in combat again at the First and Second Battles of El Teb in February 1884, the Battle of Abu Klea in January 1885 and the Battle of Kirbekan in February 1885 during the Mahdist War."

The Black Watch were not part of the Desert column that fought at Abu Klea in January 1885.

The author has evidently that action with the battle at Tamai on 13 March 1884, both of which involved diffcult moments when a bungled command allowed the British squares to be penetrated briefly by enemy fighters.

I shall amend

The link at footnote 5: "Empire: 1815–1915". The Black Watch. Retrieved 8 May 2016 - is dead.

JF42 (talk) 16:17, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Funeral of John F. Kennedy

"During the state funeral of John F. Kennedy in November 1963, nine bagpipers from the regiment were invited to travel to the United States"

The BW pipes and drums were already touring in North America and had played on the lawn of the White House some weeks before; hence Mrs Kennedy asking that they should play in the funeral procession. See [1] JF42 (talk) 05:15, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ 'The Black Watch: Fighting on the Front Line' Victoria Schofield, 2017

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