Talk:Adjective/Archive 1

The list is a little bit annoying

The list is a little bit annoying, esp. if you want to print the article. --zeno 09:49, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I completely agree. Anyone else in favor of moving the list to a separate page? It's not relevant to the topic of "adjective" as a whole, since it only lists English adjectives (and only certain obscure ones, at that). It clutters up the page and doesn't provide useful, general information. —Bkell 21:20, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

As a writer, I find the list very helpful but I would not have a problem with it being moved to another page. Could another user make it so? Cormac Canales

Does anyone know where the rule for adjective order is written?

I added the external link for a little more info, but I still don't know the source of the rule, if indeed it exists. Spalding 16:25, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC) I added one too. Especially for the countdowns. The source of the rule is that there is no so rule. The basic concept is canonical in that the sequence of adjective begins with subjectivity and ends closest to the head noun with the most objective one. This particulary attribute of the english language is probably the reason for its prevelance around the world. What are the criteria for subjective and objective??? Well that is cognitive science, neuro-linguistics or the such like and other hocus-pocus that all neatly fit into the classification of English Grammar . --SteveKopp 13:36, 22 November 2005 (UTC)stevekopp

I don't think I follow your comment. You seem upset that there are exceptions and complications in the application of English grammar to actual production. That is certainly true but in no way distinguishes English from any other language. It's common for people, when learning another language, to be dismayed with the rules, sub-rules, exceptions, "maybes" and "it depends": this holds if one is learning English or Chinese or Tamil or French or Guarani. It's common for people to insist that their own mother tongues are more regular or transparent than the target language, but this seems unlikely. If it's true that English, say, is so much more irregular than other languages (it has more "hocus pocus" as you put it) that runs up against two problems. First, how is it that English speakers master the grammar at about the same age as speakers in all human languages, from 4 to 6 years of age? Second, such claims that other languages (French, German, what have you) are far more regular are contradicted by linguistic research. Despite the efforts of the Académie française, for example, linguists are able to find all kinds of changes, irregularities, innovations in French speech. Interlingua ^{talk email} 03:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Adjective order

As a french-speaking reader of English, I've been taught at school adjectives always come before the noun they qualify, like in ‘a great actor’ or ‘a big man’ etc. Why is it then that one finds expressions like ‘the sum total’ or '... an emergent worldview for the field overall" (why not "... an emergent worldview for the overall field"?) I've been wondering about that for YEARS! Who will solve this enigma for me?

General usage guide

I found the section on the comparative and superlative as rather unhelpful in giving the reader some insight into when to use "-er/-est" and when to use "more/most". About four years ago there was a lot of discussion about this on alt.usage.english. The whole area of the use of "er/est" and "more/most" is very confused. I have done a lot of research trying to get a clearer picture of the situation for myself. The problem is that there are bits and pieces all over the place but I have not seen any complete coverage anywhere and there is not universal agreement. At that time I provided some general usage guidance which was favourably received and I got a number of personal emails about it. I have added it with a few minor changes as a subheading within the section. It summarises my reading and may be helpful in clarifying the situation. --Drjdcollins 11:58, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Plural forms + adjective after the noun

Hi, I'm a non-native English speaker and I'm puzzled by some of the form of adjective (or rather noun used as adjectives). For example, one should say "a three year old" but "he's three yearS old". I looked at various grammar books, and it's hard to find the information.

Also I found something funny that I had never paid attention to. Sometime the adjective is after the noun in English, for example, one says 'Attorney General' and not 'General Attorney'.

Strange, huh?

I can reformulate the books I have if you think I should.

Tony

As a french-speaking reader of English, I've been taught at school adjectives always come before the noun they qualify, like in ‘a great actor’ or ‘a big man’ etc. Why is it then that one finds expressions like ‘the sum total’ or '... an emergent worldview for the field overall" (why not "... an emergent worldview for the overall field"?) I've been wondering about that for YEARS! Who will solve this enigma for me?

Aleksi.

I'm a native English speaker, and I'd like to have someone explain that to me as well. When we say "he is 1.82 metres tall", what exactly are the parts of speech of "metres and of "tall"?

Then, when we say "the 1.82 metre tall man" with no "s", what are the parts of speech of "metre", of "tall"? The "man" is clearly a noun here. Gene Nygaard 22:20, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

"Tall" is an adjective; "1.82 metre(s)" is a noun acting as a complement to "tall". I think historically, the reason we drop the "-s" sometimes has something to do with the Old English genitive case, but at this point it's just The Way It Is. —Ruakh_TALK 22:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

So you are saying "metres" in the first example is an adjective, and "metre" in the second example is an adjective. Or, in Bruguier/Tony's examples, in the first example "years" is an adjective modifying "old" and has an "s", and in the second example "year" is an adjective modifying "old" and it doesn't have an "s".

No wonder native speakers as well as non-native speakers get confused. Can anybody offer any more specific reasoning? Gene Nygaard 23:30, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

You seem to have misread my comment. I'm saying that "metres" in the first example is a noun, and "metre" in the second example is a noun. —Ruakh_TALK 23:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

That makes even less sense; the nouns shoud have plural "s", and the adjectives should not. Gene Nygaard 02:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, the adjectives don't have plural "s". As for why the noun doesn't always have a plural "s", *shrug* it's how the language works. Historically, it had to do with Old English plural genitive forms,^[1] but I can't explain why this particular feature of Old English survived when so many related features did not. It's just how it is. —Ruakh_TALK 03:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

scientific classification of adjectives

I need help with the classification of adjectives and i've been looking over some texts and articles and found only the following but i'm not sure if it's the correct classification

DESCRIPTIVE ADJECTIVES

RELATIONAL ADJECTIVES

OR

DESCRIPTIVE

LIMITING

PREDICATE

VERBALS

DEGREES

ARTICLES

If anyone know which one is correct thanks i need it to finish a MINDMAP in a conceptual pedagogy school. Thanks a lot

Contradictory statements

This article currently says:

"Some adjectives can't function as a predicate: They can only occur in attributive position."

and later:

"English is unusual in that it allows nouns to be used attributively... These are not adjectives, as they cannot be used predicatively.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. In the first instance it allows that some adjectives are not predicative, then it claims that attributive nouns can't be adjectives because they are not predicative. I am not expert enough to know how to fix this. Maybe someone can?

I tried to make my understanding of this a bit clearer. I think words like former, main and alone are atypical adjectives, but adjective is the word class that they fit best with. Georgia fits best with the word class noun. Gailtb 11:43, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

• Sure, I think everyone would agree that "Georgia" usually functions as a noun. However, very many words (e.g. red, dark, high etc. etc.) can function as both nouns and adjectives, and the question here is whether or not "Georgia" is actually functioning as an adjective in constructions such as "Georgia pear". The article claims that it can't be because it cannot be used predicatively, but this is blown apart by the earlier statement that not all adjectives can be used predicatively. I still don't think it makes sense. Matt 11:35, 25 November 2005 (UTC).

• Then it's a difference in usage of the words adjective and noun. For me they are word classes: a word is a noun or an adjective; it can't function as a noun or adjective. But a noun can function as a modifier ie adjectivally (spelling?). There's an important difference. Please can someone more knowledgeable help out? (PS That's not really what the definition of adjective which is given here says, so I may be wrong.) Gailtb 17:44, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• I'm not an expert in grammar, but every dictionary I've even seen says that words can function as different types of speech. To give just one of countless examples, the Collins English Dictionary entry for "green" lists n., followed by the meanings of "green" as a noun; then adj., followed by the meanings of "green" as an adjective; then vb. followed by the meanings of "green" as a verb. As far as I am aware this is standard. Matt 17:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC).

A linguist would say that that that example is really 2 or 3 different (but related) words, not one word functioning in 3 different ways! Gailtb 21:30, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• Not precisely. In the same way that biological species are distinguished by their ancestry (genetics), words are distinguished by their ancestry (etymology). The word is the same, but it has different functions in different contexts. Perhaps the best way to deal with this is to ignore (for the moment) the terms "noun" and "adjective" altogether, and substitute something like "nominal" (a word that can be used to name an entity) and "descriptive" (a word that can be used to describe an entity). I can't think of any words that can't have descriptive function (English is especially good at compounding nominals), and there are at most very few words that can't have nominal function. Of the three examples above (former, main, alone), main can indeed be used nominally, at least in the idiom in the main. Whether a word "is" a noun or an adjective would, I suppose, depend on whether it's usually used descriptively (adjectives) or nominally (noun). But I'm not really happy (except in the context of introductory grammar) saying that a word "is" a particular part of speech. -- MatthewDBA 18:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Right. I didn't know that. (But the problem still remains because, taking this view, there is nothing to stop one word "Georgia" being a noun, and another (related) word "Georgia" being an adjective?). Matt 14:42, 30 November 2005 (UTC).

"Low" and "dark" are indeed both nouns and adjectives, but only because they're originally pure adjectives ("lower", "darkest"). "Georgia pear" is a compound noun, not adjective+noun as indiciated by the existance of "Georgian pear", culturual implications aside. It's no different from "toilet seat", "jackknife" or "homesick". That a non-adjective might be slightly reminiscent of the function of an adjective (as in modifying a noun) doesn't mean it automatically qualifies for consideration as one. Keep in mind that while English is very inconsistent in writing compounds as one or two words, this is not the case with most other Germanic languages.

Peter ^Isotalo 11:53, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Apologies if the following is going to sound (unintentionally) pedantic, but:

• English is unusual in that it allows nouns to be used attributively... These are not adjectives, as they cannot be used predicatively.

This statement is true. In the phrase "the information society", "information" is a noun used attributively to "society". This does not, however, make it an adjective: it is an attributive noun (which obviously cannot be used predicatively, as in the hypothetical *"Our present-day society is information.")

• Some adjectives can't function as a predicate: They can only occur in attributive position.

This, again, is true, as the examples indicate. However, these adjectives are a-typical, and there do not seem to be a great many of them. They are exceptions to the general rule that most adjectives can be used predicatively, a rule which does not apply to any attributive nouns -- as far as I'm aware. Bessel Dekker 22:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The choice of words is not extremely good. Saying that most English adjectives are predicative is correct, but saying that they can function as predicates might be wrong. An English predicate, in this case, would be made up of an adjective plus a copula or some other verb like turn or make or look. The adjective predicates through the copula. This is different from the case of e.g. Japanese, where one of the types of "adjectives", which is actually analyzed as a class of stative verbs, can be a predicate by itself.

The two seemingly contradictory statements cited above can be confusing for the reader. Saying that X is not an adjective because it cannot be used predicatively sounds as if predicative use were a necessary condition for X to be considered an adjective. My two cents anyway... --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:49, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Words are not static. Word classes are ideals; they do not exist outside a grammatical analysis. There are 'good' examples of nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc which closely match a prototype, but many that are not so clear. Many linguists come up with tests to determine which category a word belongs to. This can be a very (a) frustrating or (b) interesting (take your pick) because it proves to be impossible to come up with tests that are reliable. It's not that green is two words, noun and adjective, but rather that it doesn't consistantly match either category. Heavily inflecting languages like Greek are often clearer, because the morphology is often unambiguous (often, not always!), but the more a language relies on syntax to define a word, the vaguer the categories become. kwami 02:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

A, the, this, that

Who says these are adjectives? Can whoever wrote that cite their source for suggesting it? I don't know who the "some grammarians" are meant to be. This seems like original research to me.

Try this source to start with: [2] Logophile 07:23, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

But that source explains that "this," "that," etc. are demonstrative adjectives. "A," and "the" are not demonstrative adjectives according to the source.Kronocide 16:37, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Comparison with/of adjectives

The subhead "Comparison with adjectives" seems to me misleading: what do we compare adjectives with? Instead, as far as I'm aware the positive-comparative-superlative series is always referred to as the "Comparison of adjecives". Admitteldly, I have checked this with one source only: Quirk et al., A Grammar of Contemporary English. Bessel Dekker 04:04, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I have seen the term adjectival comparison in the theoretical literature. mitcho/芳貴 22:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

is there a list

Hi - new guy in the consumer products business. Is there a list (English) of nouns that can't be used as an adjective? This is tied into the following "Use of a trademark as anything other than an adjective is incorrect".

No, there is not. Conceivably, any noun could be used as an attributive adjective (the kind that goes before the noun, such as any, attributive, and this in this sentence). Coca-Cola is a registered tradmark: "I like Coca-Cola": just used it as a noun. It's perfectly fine. You can use the same word as an adjective: "We asked about Coca-Cola sales." President Lethe 00:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Examples

Are all the examples supposed to be the same? - FrancisTyers · 23:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Please, clarify your question. If you're asking whether it is intended that the examples of attributive, predicative, and post-positive adjectives in the box near the top of the article all use the same sentence, the answer is Yes. In each version of the sentence, the appropriate type of adjective is in bold type. — President Lethe 00:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

"Chinese has no adjectives"

"Chinese languages have no adjectives; all the words that are translated into English as adjectives are, in fact, stative verbs." Is this right? Doesn't this need to be qualified somehow? The Chinese word for "large" 大 is not a stative verb is it? Interlingua ^{talk email} 02:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Same as in Japanese. 大 is a stative verb meaning "to be large", which is why it doesn't need a copula after it. When used before a noun, it is in fact working as a subordinate clause (e.g. "a house that is large"), which in Chinese is placed before the noun it modifies, rather than after it as in English. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

"Chinese has adjectives!"

Chinese has adjectives! Why it says "Chinese languages have no adjectives"? How come? I don't agree with it at all! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Calvinli (talk • contribs) 03:12, 24 July 2006.

Linguists don't agree with you. See above. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 12:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Examples at top

In the top box of examples, I don't think "all" should be used as an example of attributive adjective use. First of all, because I am of the point of view that "all" isn't an adjective but rather a particular kind of determiner. Secondly, even if one does hold that determiners in general, or quantifiers like "all" in particular, are adjectives, I feel it would be more illustrative and useful to to give a more conventional, so to speak, example of attributive adjective use. -Chinju 02:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Grammar

Is the grammer wrong in this sentence:

"Lets head home," said broke and discouraged Jessica.

or should it be this:

"Lets head home," said the broke and discouraged Jessica.

In other words, do you have to put a the in front of the adjective(s)?

Absolute use.

One of my French grammar books talks about three uses of adjectives: « l'adjectif épithète », the attributive adjective; « l'adjectif attribu », the predicative adjective; and « l'adjectif apposé », as in "Angry, he slammed the door." This thid use should definitely be added to the article, but I'm loath to do it myself without knowing the proper English term. (I'm assuming it's something to do with the word "absolute", à la noun absolute, absolute phrase, etc., but I don't know quite the right permutation.) Does anyone know it? Ruakh 01:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Incomplete sentence in wiki

Someone please finish it, if you know what it was supposed to mean, or remove/rephrase. Then you can delete my comment. The incomplete sentence is the last one in this paragraph:

An attributive adjective is part of the noun phrase headed by the noun it modifies; for example, in the noun phrase the big book, the attributive adjective big modifies the noun book, which heads the phrase. In the Germanic languages, including English, attributive adjectives commonly precede their nouns, though some English adjectives — such as aplenty, elect, galore, and proper — follow their nouns, and some fixed expressions — such as attorney general, court martial, and knight errant — use postpositioned adjectives. In many languages, however, attributive adjectives typically follow their nouns, and some languages.

Recognition of adjectives as a word class

The article says:

"However, adjectives are not a universally recognized word class; in other words, some languages do not have any adjectives. The Chinese languages, for example, have no adjectives; all the words that are translated into English as adjectives are, in fact, stative verbs."

This doesn't make any sense to me. The statement "adjectives are not a universally recognized word class" means, to me, that some linguists don't accept the concept of adjectives as a word class at all (whatever the language). The stuff about some languages not having them is written as if it's supposed to be supportive of this statement, but I don't see that it is. I don't see how the absence of adjectives in, say, Chinese has any direct bearing on whether the concept of an adjective is "universally recognised" for those languages that do. Matt 20:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC).

I agree with your analysis; this should be fixed. Ruakh 20:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

me too because the right is me not you........... its me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erikared78 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Note about Adjectival

I have changed the page at Adjectival to be a disambig page between the terms adjective (the old redirect) and adjectival noun. Just wanted to let everyone know. Thanks. - grubber 05:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Articles should have "Adjectives in English" section

Currently, this article really mixes information about adjectives in English with information about adjectives cross-linguistically, and in many places I think it's unclear whether a given statement is true of English specifically or of languages in general.

To address this, I think this page should have two content sections: "Adjectives in English" and "Adjectives in other languages" (discussing other languages in general, taking examples from a variety of languages). The lead text would be unaffected by this change, as would the non-content sections ("See also", "Bibliography", etc.).

I think this would also have the benefit of starting with a section that's more easily accessible to all readers and, once they have a bit of understanding of the complexities, the next section can assume that level of understanding.

Thoughts?

—Ruakh_TALK 04:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Are numbers adjectives?

I realize that there are many differnt discussions of numbers in the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_number & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number but are numbers considered adjectives?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.38.33.162 (talk) 03:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

In English, the counting numbers (1, 2, 3, …) are determiners, and can act either as adjectives or as pronouns. —Ruakh_TALK 07:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Consistency Needed When Referencing Different Languages

Although interesting to hear how adjectives work in different languages, because initially, specific languages are not (always) cited-- the references become confusing at points.

• • The confusing passages are clustered more towards the early part of the article-- later in the body of the work there is more clarity and abundance of exact language references and concrete examples.

But the earlier parts are confusing-- for example, I am trying to better learn how adjectives work in English, but I can't (always) tell from this article which usages apply to English or even what specific language they do apply to.

Later in the article extensive English examples are given-- (very helpful) but the initial references to 'other languages' and 'some languages' need to be clarified at points with specific examples of languages or language groups.

It's nice to be inclusive and cover more than just English-- but without consistent use of examples, or at least some refeerence to languages or language groups, there is no way to apply the information and confusion is created about where various uses do / do not apply.

Sean7phil 18:40, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Absolute adjective

The article gives a definition of "absolute adjective" which I have not seen anywhere else, and it does not give a citation for it:

Absolute adjectives do not belong to a larger construction (aside from a larger adjective phrase), and typically modify either the subject of a sentence or whatever noun or pronoun they are closest to; for example, happy is an absolute adjective in "The boy, happy with his lollipop, did not look where he was going."

When you Google "absolute adjective", some sites say that it refers to an adjective which is not comparative (e.g.: a dead man but not a deader man); this seems questionable because such an adjective is generally called non-gradable, so why another name?.

Other sites say that an absolute adjective is one which functions as a noun (e.g.: the poor have it rough). 69.155.8.222 (talk) 20:46, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Compound nouns

The[[ Columbiay Guide to SAE's view on this seems a bit idiosyncratic. I don't see any actual grammatical basis for their distinction, and it is possible to find references where all of their examples would be treated as compound nouns. Anyway, I think the term "compound noun" should at least be mentioned. Cadr 10:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: "I don't see any actual grammatical basis for [the Columbia Guide's] distinction" between compound nouns and not: see http://www.bartleby.com/68/98/1398.html.

The thing int there manInsert non-formatted text here, the top hits on Google all define "compound noun" roughly the same way that I do and that the Columbia Guide seems to: if I may paraphrase, then something like "a single 'word' that's composed of multiple 'words', and that's a noun". They don't require that all components be nouns — something like hot dog would count — and do generally require that the result be lexicalized (though one was iffy on this point).

Now, I'm certainly not suggesting that we have to trust Google on this point — it's not my experience that this sort of pedagogical/applied-linguistics Web site is persnickety about using the scientifically correct linguistic terminology — but I hope you won't be offended when I say that the burden is on you to show that these sites and the Columbia Guide are using the term wrongly.

That said, I think it likely either that you're mistaken, or that the term is used ambivalently between the sense I mean and the sense you mean, because in my experience Language Log does generally get the terminology right (not necessarily perfectly — the posters there generally enjoy writing about things that aren't in their specific field of expertise — but still), and it's easy to find entries where it uses about the same definition as the Columbia Guide — see e.g. http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003295.html, http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003195.html.

(If we can come to a consensus on what exactly the term means, then we should definitely mention the things it refers to. If it does mean what the Columbia Guide and various Language Log entries pedagogical Web sites think, then it probably warrants its own section, if only so we can elaborate on the difference between an independent adjective and an adjective that's been subsumed into a compound. And for that matter, we need a section on compound adjectives.)

—Ruakh_TALK 15:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I never meant to suggest that all compound nouns are N+N sequences, I just said that all N+N sequences form a compound noun. (If I say that the congressmen met on Wednesday, forming a committee, I don't mean to say that all commities are formed of congressmen meeting on Wednesdays.) However, the Columbia guide says that some N+N sequences aren't compound nouns, and their decisions on this seem completely arbitrary (why is "bird house" a compound but not "school principal"?) I think the Columbia guide actually goes against your definition of a compound, since "school principal" is clearly, in your words, "a single 'word' that's composed of multiple 'words', and that's a noun". The Language Log doesn't say anything explicit about the relevant issues (since it doesn't talk much about N+N compounds). Cadr 11:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: "I never meant to suggest that all compound nouns are N+N sequences": Oh, sorry. I thought you meant that as a definition. (After all, if you agree that compound nouns often consist of an adjective and a noun, then why would you have the article on adjectives only mention non-adjective-containing compound nouns?) Re: "I think the Columbia guide actually goes against your definition of a compound": Eh? I actually don't think "school principal" is a single "word" (though I could perhaps be convinced otherwise), and apparently the Columbia Guide doesn't either (and presumably it's too late to try to convince it).

In general, I don't understand your definition. You seem to be defining compound noun as "A single 'word' that's composed of multiple 'words', and that's a noun, or a single phrase that's composed of multiple nouns, and that's a noun"?

—Ruakh_TALK 15:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Now I think of it, the stress test does distinguish "school principle" and "bird house", so I guess they aren't both compounds. Oops! Cadr 16:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Hebrew example

The Hebrew example in the beginning is somewhat controversial because צריך is not strictly an adjective but rather a verbial form (present participle). Hebrew verbs don't have a present tense, but instead form present participles. A participle possesses both the traits of an adjective (can be used to modify nouns) and a verb (can have objects and adjuncts). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alexey Feldgendler (talk • contribs) 07:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, I couldn't decide if that's a good example. Traditionally, it's considered an adjective (and my dictionary gives it as one), and I'll note that הייתי צריך is much more freely available as a past tense than you'd expect if צריך were simply a participle. (Contrast הייתי הולך, which is only used as a conditional mood and to express actions that were repeated over the long term.) However, modern linguists do often consider it an irregular participle of צרך, citing as evidence the fact that the regularly-formed participle of צרך is not used, and the fact that צריך uses את with a definite complement and no preposition with an indefinite one. So, I decided to include it, because even if it's kind-of a verb, it's also kind-of a non-verb adjective, and I couldn't think of a better example in any of the languages I speak. (There are probably a bunch, but I find it really hard to think of such things.) If you can think of a better example of this (that is, an example where a language uses an adjective where English uses something else), then by all means, please replace the existing one. —Ruakh_TALK 17:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Um,, What are adjetives? I need A few words.. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.27.105.118 (talk) 02:25, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I remember...

In older versions of this article, e.g. at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adjective&oldid=118426280 (not sure if that's the most recent relevant version), there are some sections "Adjective order", "Comparison of adjectives" and "Adjectives of relation". Although these are rather over-long and waffly, are we happy that all information of interest actually got carried forward to the new (and generally much improved) article? I didn't write any of that stuff, #REDIRECT except I think I may have changed a few commas or something. So, I don't have any particular axe to grind, but just wondering... Matt 23:48, 22 July 2007 (UTC).

English adjective vs. adjective in general

The article is currently about both, and it's not good for either. Should we split this into two articles? Zocky | picture popups 11:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

That seems like a good idea. Helixer (talk) 01:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Variety in examples

The examples in the box at the top are all attributive adjectives. A little more variety might be nice. —Jorend (talk) 01:47, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Irregular uses (e.g. "woman" as adjective)

I agree with the above comment. There especially should be some explanation (if a coherent one exists) of weird accepted usages like, for example, "woman" as an adjective (instead of the correct "female") (e.g. "woman doctor", etc).
--Tyranny Sue (talk) 03:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

That seems to be an example of an attributive noun as described in the section "Other Noun Modifiers". You can say "A female doctor is female.", but you cannot say "A woman doctor is woman." 129.69.215.37 (talk) 07:04, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Box of examples

You know, a few years ago, I edited the "Examples" box so that it contained three copies of one sentence—something like "All things green aren't red"—, with the first copy highlighting the attributive adjective (all), the second highlighting the postpositive adjective (green), and the third highlighting the predicative adjective (red). And now we have five sentences highlighting nine examples of one kind of adjective. Only nine? I think we need 438 examples of attributive adjectives. President Lethe (talk) 21:56, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't like the new examples. For a start, "all" is not an adjective, it's a determiner. Then, the example sentence, "All things green aren't red", is bad English: ugly and inherently ambiguous. 86.150.102.78 (talk) 12:20, 14 November 2009 (UTC).

How do you adjectivize a persons name?

What is the rule when adjectivizing a persons name, such as when describing historic time periods ("the Victorian Era", "the Edwardian Era", "the Napoleonic Era"), what are the rules in working out the correct way to adjectivize it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fatcud (talk • contribs) 15:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Post-positive adjectives

The article gives an example of an attributive adjective following the noun: "I saw three kids happy enough to jump up and down with glee."

Question 1: Is "happy" a post-positive adjective here? It does not seem to be quite of the same nature as the examples at post-positive adjective.

Question 2: In "The boy, happy with his lollipop, did not look where he was going", "happy" is said to be an "absolute" adjective, not an attributive adjective. Does this mean that it's also an absolute adjective in "I saw a boy happy with his lollipop", and wouldn't that contradict the first example where "happy" is, in an extremely similar context, said to be an attributive adjective? 86.150.102.78 (talk) 12:45, 14 November 2009 (UTC).

Inaccurate Spanish example

In the first section of the article the expression "tener hambre" is used as the equivalent in Spanish for "being hungry" with "hambre" not being an adjective. But the right translation for "being hungry" would be "estar hambriento", and the word "hambriento" IS an adjective in Spanish. So I suggest removing the spanish part of the example as it isn't a valid example of the issue being described. --201.235.61.121 (talk) 05:18, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Order of Adjectives: Two of the same category

How do you order adjectives in the same category? Arrange this for example: Object of the Modifier Essay Adjectives Brief-Good-Factual. They fall under the opinion category. Bon 062 (talk) 10:39, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I would argue that none of the examples you gave are in the same category. Though "good" is indeed an opinion adjective, brief is actually an adjective of size. Sure, what one considers brief is subject to one's opinion, but so is what one considers "big", so I think "adjective of opinion" refers to words like "good", "bad", and any variant thereof. "Factual" is a more interesting case. Though at first one might think that it would qualify as an "opinion adjective" (unless you're going by the informal definition I just supplied), I don't think "a factual brief essay" sounds quite right. I think I would order the example you gave thus: "Good, brief, factual essay". The list of types of adjectives on this page has been decreased since the last time I was here, so it's possible that "factual" falls into one of the missing categories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.229.185 (talk) 02:35, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Adjectives from verbs

Am I missing something, or does this article not address how adjectives are often formed (in English, anyway) from the past participles of verbs? (I think that's a correct description of what I'm talking about...) For example, "A has painted B" is using the past participle of to paint, but one may then say "B is painted" (as in, "a painted thing" — that's different from a past participle, right??), using the word as an adjective. Am I off-base on this? What is this process of getting adjectives from verbs called, and should the article mention it? (Note that many adjectives fall into this camp etymologically, even when they don't look exactly like their verb form — e.g., dead comes from to die (well, sort of), but everyone recognizes that dead is just a "plain" adjective.) - dcljr (talk) 01:00, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, theoretically, a participle already is a kind of adjective, so it's kind of implied that all participles have an adjectival use when it makes sense. English participles derive historically from adjectives too (in Proto-Indo-European). 'dead' isn't actually from a verb, it has lived a life separate from the verb 'to die' since at least Germanic times, 2000 years ago. CodeCat (talk) 01:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Some things to consider...

I believe this article could benefit from a few alterations. First of all, the lead section gives a very brief description of an adjective, but the terminology used lacks some clarity and assumes that the reader has some prior linguistic knowledge (above the average person's common knowledge of what an 'adjective' is). In addition, it does not summarize the article's key points or give a general overview of what the article entails. Using less technical language and outlining the main points of the article in the lead section would be helpful. Secondly, this article contains a few questionable facts. For instance, it is stated that determiners are neither nouns nor pronouns, but this contradicts my knowledge of determiner phrases. As I understand, definite pronouns and the possessive 's have the same distribution as determiners (i.e. can occur in the same spot, syntactically) and therefore can be considered determiners. Perhaps some more in-text citations would be helpful as they would provide a sound basis for the claims. --KristenMcB (talk) 04:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Different grammarians use different terminology, but I'm not sure what you mean by "definite pronouns and the possessive 's . . . can be considered determiners.".

As I understand the terminology as used in this article

• the word "determiner" is being used to designate a lexical category (part of speech), sometimes called a "determinative"
• determiners, in this sense, include words like "the" and "my" (but not "mine", which might be called a "possessive pronoun"),
• what others call the genitive form of a personal pronoun (e.g. "my") is called a "possessive determiner" (previously "possessive adjective")
• this use of "determiner" should be distinguished from the "determiner function", which includes genitive noun phrases

I am not quite sure if this is what you mean.

I agree that it should be made a lot clearer (possibly with more examples).

I think the distinction between an adjective and a determiner is important, but it might be better to refer to a different article for the terminological details.

The problem of terminology has come up elsewhere in connection with possessive determiners/adjectives ; I am working on a description of the terminological differences but am not yet happy with what I have. I won't have anything presentable for at least two weeks.

I think an encyclopaedia needs to explain the differences between adjectives and determiners (in the sense of determinatives) but it is a problem when using traditional terminology. I suppose explaining the difference to a layman might involve the following

• an article ("a" or "the") can combine with an adjective ("a blue bird") but not with another determinative/determiner (* "a my book", * "a this book")

The section on other noun modifiers could also, perhaps, be improved to better explain the differences beween an attributive noun and an adjective (e.g.: an attributive noun cannot be modified by an adverb, etc.)

--Boson (talk) 16:45, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Comparison rule

Would it be appropriate to discuss the tendency for native speakers to apply the suffixes to monosylabic or simple adjectives? Thus, it is considered generally improper to say "The blood is more red", instead favouring "the blood is redder", just as it is considered improper to say "the blood is crimsoner", rather "The blood is more crimson"? I ask because I am not sure if there is a hard and fast rule for this. I have definitely noticed that adjectives of one or two sylables almost always receive the suffixes; 'harder", "nicer", "simpler", while adjectives of three or more sylables rarely receive suffixes; "more difficult", "more agreeable", "more simplistic". Axciom (talk) 08:55, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

This is described at Comparative#-er vs. more and is touched on a bit in the "Comparison of adjectives" section of the adjective page. Graham87 12:37, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

"English grammar" template?

Adjectives exist in (almost?) all languages. I don't think that this template is appropriate, I think it should be either switched out for a more language/location neutral template, or removed from the article entirely. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 08:24, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Order of adjectives section

I've rewritten the order to match the OSASCOMP rule which I have cited. However, the British Council guide [3] gives the order as size, shape, age rather than size, age, shape. To me, big old round drum sounds more natural than big round old drum but if this SSA order is found in other sources then we should include it as an alternative. It may be (and this is totally OR at the moment) it depends on how closely associated the size and shape adjectives are: big blunt old knife sounds as good as big old blunt knife, if not better. Help, someone... Btljs (talk) 10:20, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Also, shouldn't textures and similar qualities come in between size and shape somewhere? e.g. a big rusty old kettle, a small soggy square handkefchief, a shiny new round penny. Btljs (talk) 10:27, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

OSACOMP format inconsistency

Half the bullets contain example words in italics, half don't; some place a comma after 'e.g.', some don't. Someone closer to this needs to decide. — MaxEnt 02:13, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Also, it might be useful to point out that OSACOMP omits 'shape'. — MaxEnt 02:13, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Okay, after I cut and paste and cleaned it up in my own notes, it looked like this:

Determiners

articles, adverbs, and other limiters (three blind mice)

Observation/opinion

postdeterminers and limiter adjectives (a real hero, a perfect idiot) and adjectives subject to subjective measure (beautiful, interesting), or objects with a value (good, bad, costly)

Size

adjectives denoting physical size (tiny, big, extensive)

Age

adjectives denoting age (young, old, new, ancient, six-year-old)

Shape

adjectives describing more detailed physical attributes than overall size (round, sharp, swollen)

Colour

adjectives denoting colour (red, black, pale)

Origin

denominal adjectives denoting source (French, volcanic, extra-terrestrial)

Material

denominal adjectives denoting what something is made of (woollen, metallic, wooden)

Qualifier/purpose

final limiter, sometimes regarded as part of the noun (rocking chair, hunting cabin, passenger car, book cover)

I think the italic suffices to convey "e.g." which is just clutter. Note that under Qualifier, I added partial italics. I'm not saying this is right for Wikipedia. I'm just giving an alternative that works for me. — MaxEnt 02:23, 15 April 2017 (UTC) –nice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.136.195 (talk) 23:54, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

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Temperature

I dropped temperature and humidity from the list; they were added without a source and are not in the general references currently cited for the list's order. There seems to be no agreement in RS as to where in the sequence they fall. (In turn, it would seem to be OR to add a sentence admitting that to readers, since most references just state their own order confidently without acknowledging the incompatible orders of other references.) Some sources put temperature after or together with shape, whether this puts temperature before or after age; others put temperature after or group it together with age, ahead of shape. This mentions an even more exhaustive list, which is just as incompatible with all of the aforecited works as they are with each other on the question of where temperature goes relative to age, shape, and everything else: "determiner > ordinal number > cardinal number > subjective comment > ?evidential > size > length > height > speed > ?depth > width > weight > temperature > ?wetness > age > shape > color > nationality/origin > material > compound element > NP (Scott 2002:114)". (This last order may be widely cited enough to merit mention, though.) -sche (talk) 00:47, 6 December 2021 (UTC)