Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources

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This talk page is for discussing the reliability of sources for use in video game articles. If you are wondering if a video game source is reliable enough to use on Wikipedia, this is the place to ask.

When posting a new topic, please add a link to the topic on the Video Game Sources Checklist after the entry for the site. If an entry for the site does not exist, create one for it and include the link to the topic afterward. Also, begin each topic by adding {{subst:find video game sources|...site name...|linksearch=...site URL...}} in order to provide other users with some easily accessible links to check up on the source.


GMR Magazine

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GMR is a Ziff Davis US magazine that provided computer and console game reviews from 2003 to 2005. The magazine had an editorial board and the magazines were closely linked to online content on the 1Up Network website, a reliable source under WP:VG/S. Given the publisher, plenty of the contributors turn up in other reliable sources, such as Greg Orlando, Che Chou and Ryan Scott. The only thing that is unusual is that the magazines were sold in Electronics Boutique. But it's a Ziff Davis publication and the review scores suggest this had no more of an impact on editorial independence than compared to other magazine reviews. You can find all the issues on the Internet Archive.

sportacentrs.com (non-English source)

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SportaCentrs.com (LV Wikipedia) is a Latvian (non-English) media that publishes information about sports and also eSports.

The site was launched in 2002 and they have a professional team of journalists about sports and esports: https://parmums.sportacentrs.com/redakcija.html

Beebom

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Is Beebom reliable or not? Supergrey1 (talk) 14:22, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Supergrey1 (I know its been a while since this was posted and to no response until now) Since Beebom also covers things outside the video game sphere, it may be better to ask this at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard instead. JuniperChill (talk) 14:49, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your suggestion. Still, I'm rather unfamiliar with WP:RS/N on English Wikipedia, so I may just have to trouble others to submit it. Supergrey1 (talk) 14:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Punished Backlog

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This source seems quite reliable to me. Their reviews are proper, and look neat. JuniperChill (talk) 20:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you say a little more? I don't know of these people and it appears to be a very polished college project. That's not an automatic disqualification but I'd need to know more about why they're reliable. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not saying that this website is reliable (since its not anywhere in VG/S). I am saying it looks like one because this review from Octopath Traveler II just yesterday is a long one, and if you look at that website, it goes pretty in depth. I am also asking because I cannot find this anywhere in VG/S or its archive. JuniperChill (talk) 09:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks neat and "reviews are in-depth" are not really hallmarks of WP:RS. Axem, and other participants, are looking for the nominator of a site to present what they believe makes a site reliable or unreliable. We do have a staff page which is in far better shape than many sites posted here, but not a lot of credentials or experience for anyone outside this site. Their "Write for Us" page though is asking for volunteers for "blog contributors". It doesn't seem like they just take open user submissions though. No editorial policy is evident. I'm not seeing any evidence that other reliable sources are quoting them. All in all, feels like a well done but still young group blog. -- ferret (talk) 14:08, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ferret: The site's reviews are used by OpenCritic, if that helps. Not very many previous jobs are listed for the writers, but most of them at least list a college education. I think it is unrealistic to require a source to hire former writers for reliable sources to become one, since not many of those writers are going to want to leave a good job like that. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:39, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It does not. OpenCritic and MetaCritic have many sources we consider unreliable. -- ferret (talk) 16:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still, some of their employees, including the founder, do have some experience. I think it seems reliable enough, although I understand that that opinion may not be universal. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the founder apparently writes for RPGFan, and Alyssa Payne has experience at The Escapist and TheGamer, so that helps. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:41, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it finally time to include the Punished Backlog into the main page? It looks like this has been thru a proper discussion to finally include it. It seems like its possibly a reliable source now. JuniperChill (talk) 13:19, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion is at best inconclusive. I do not believe a history of reputation and fact checking has been demonstrated, per my comment above. I'm not seeing any evidence that other reliable sources are quoting them. All in all, feels like a well done but still young group blog.. So consider this a clear Unreliable for now. -- ferret (talk) 14:16, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree that this discussion should be considered inconclusive. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
End of the day, no one countered any of the points I brought up. Low credentials (only a couple with more established presence), no editorial policy, no reputation, references to self as a blog, unpaid volunteers. -- ferret (talk) 14:21, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OnlySP/Only Single Player

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Stumbled across this cited on Desmond Miles. The site is defunct, but while the article in question was decently written ([1]), looking at the Staff page (which was apparently under construction for awhile) and the About Us page doesn't given the highest confidence as it leaves me to worry it's more just a project between friends. Checking the EiC's background too turned up nothing I could fine other than some mentions of other writing and the usual "professional gamer" stuff.

Hoping I'm missing something here. Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:11, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I looked around, and couldn't find anything either. Looks like another one of those websites where its just largely people who's main credential is "liking video games a lot"... Sergecross73 msg me 16:21, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cult of Mac

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I'm currently looking for sources to verify statements in the Geometry Dash article and came across this website. One of the editors wrote a book that seems to have been published by a reputable company. The other editor worked at Wired, so I really would not see why this source is unreliable at all. — 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 14:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leander Kahney is a reputable journalist and The Cult of Mac is a decent source, but I'm not really sure that applies to the web site, which comes off to me as a discount-Apple Insider or Macrumors (sources which I try and avoid where possible on Apple tech articles here.) Couldn't find an editorial policy anywhere, as well. Is there any examples you have of more clearly-reliable sources referencing its coverage? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 15:41, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's mentions of the website on al-Jazzera, Engadget, and Wired. — 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 16:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(courtesy pinging @David Fuchs) — 🌙Eclipse (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the above mostly speak to Kahney's reliability, rather than the Cult of Mac site itself. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 14:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deadline

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


I've seen this source that have been used almost everywhere and it feels like we need a consensus for this if this is reliable or not. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 02:37, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deadline is a reliable source per WP:RSP, a discussion here isn't necessary in my opinion. λ NegativeMP1 02:40, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, see WP:RSPDEADLINE. I see no reason why it would be different for video games. Sergecross73 msg me 02:42, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can we list it in the page here in vg sources that it is reliable. Thanks. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 02:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why we would, since it barely covers video games (only 14 articles this year, mostly about strikes, layoffs, and acquisitions). It seems unnecessary to list a non-VG source that's already covered at WP:RSP. Rhain (he/him) 03:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 03:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cheat Code Central (redux)

Find video game sources: "Cheat Code Central" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo I was cleaning something up and saw this cited and was about to remove the article before I recognized the author's name, Jenni Lada, on the page. She's a longtime Siliconera writer, and currently their Editor in Chief. Looking a bit deeper, I noticed the last time the site was discussed on here was 2015, and checking wayback the site at the time didn't have a staff page. Now it appears to, listing an editor with some credentials, and the website's publisher, which lists it's own staff here. There's a section at the bottom that lists the writers, and going to their individual pages they appear to have some credentials as well.

Is it worth reconsidering after all this time? Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT: To clarify, I am suggesting more in the lines of their editorial pieces such as this, not the list barrage.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:09, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I know I've been against them in the past, but that was back in the early 2010s, and they seemed to be churning out some really low-quality listicle type stuff for Sonic the Hedgehog related articles. Things do change though, so I'm open to discussing further, to see if there's a way to draw the line differently now... Sergecross73 msg me 16:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Garaph

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According to the website, it lists "Japanese video game sales data" and I can't find it on Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources so I believe its reliability is to be discussed especially as it is used in the Mario Party 4 good article. DanganMachin (talk) 12:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • I could check the archived page, but it wasn't letting me load the page itself to investigate beyond that. I believe the only reliable sales trackers for Japan are Media Create and Famitsu, so I'm guessing probably not. FYI, the citation in the Mario Party 4 mentions Media Create in some capacity, so maybe the sales figure could be found from them? Media create wasn't mentioned anywhere in the actual archived Garaph link though, so its unclear to me what its referring to. There's a chance that this is some sort of fan's compilation of Media Create's data too, which would not be acceptable for use unless, again, it could be pulled directly from Media Create in some direct, non-WP:OR way. Sergecross73 msg me 17:12, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Game of Nerds

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This is another website used in the Mario Party 4 good article which is absent from Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources. Articles seem to be user-generated but I am not sure. DanganMachin (talk) 12:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unreliable per their About Us page, which explains that the website was just created by someone who wanted somewhere to discuss nerdy stuff (their words, not mine) and that most of the writers are just random enthusiasts who signed up to write stuff too. Doesn't appear to be a professional publication. Sergecross73 msg me 17:04, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Considering that the website calls itself a "judgment-free space for you to read or write about the television shows, films, video games, books, and fandoms that you love", and that it is inviting random people to write for the site, I don't see a lot of editorial control (as Sergecross73 notes above). Best to treat it as a user-generated site. Reconrabbit 15:35, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Game Donga

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Game Donga is a video game-focused news website based in South Korea and established in 2004. It's a joint venture of Donga Dotcom and "Game Gru", the latter of which I can't find any information of. Donga Dotcom is a digital publication division of The Dong-A Ilbo, a newspaper founded in 1920 and a well known news media. However, its About Us page and nature of being a joint venture suggest The Dong-A Ilbo has little-to-none direct quality control over this website. It has been rebranded to IT Donga since 2018, but the website itself including the URL still goes by Game Donga.

About Us lists the current journalists working for this particular group, but most of their introduction reveal little about their career. The editor-in-chief, Jeong Dongbeom (정동범), has no known record before joining Game Donga. One notable journalist is Jo Hakdong (조학동), who has a LinkedIn page. He appears to be one of general managers, claims to be Virtua Fighter 3 tournament winner, and co-authored a book, Smart Phone Game Global Service Guide, published by Korea Creative Content Agency. I found the digital copy on the agency's homepage, but I can't find his name in this and therefore can't tell if he really wrote this. As far as I know, none of these personnels had any turstworthy journalism experience prior. I could't find editorial policy.

And the articles... I figured any recap would be underselling what's going on in this website, so I'm gonna translate a few:

  1. (Review) Diablo 4 beta test... No innovation, more PC (March 29, 2023) - A preview report on the beta version of Diablo IV, the author thinks its character selection screen, most of which were generated as black characters for him, is forcing PC (political correctness; this word generally shows up a lot) on him. The Druid reminded him of Disney's 2023 film The Little Mermaid and made him decide not to look forward to the full release.
  2. We hate ugly characters! Gamers changing the characters to enjoy the game (February 29, 2024) - The first paragraph opens with the author's own insight into the current video gaming, in which too much PC caused backlash because the characters in video games suddenly turn gay or lesbian as if there's an LGBT quota to meet. He cites Aloy in Horizon Forbidden West and a female character in the 2025 Fable reboot (he's probably talking about this trailer) as prime examples of intentionally destroying character's attractiveness to appease false political correctness. The article talks about mods for Baldur's Gate 3, Hogwart Legacy, and Cyberpunk 2077 that make the characters attractive, and notes video games should look for gamers who want to meet pretty characters.
  3. (Video) No forced political correctness! A Steam curator snipes PC organization (March 6, 2024) - An article about Sweet Baby Inc. It introduces the company as "video game narrative developer who injects political correctness in their works". The author sympathizes with the goal of the Steam curator and says this kind of curator emerged because people were getting fed up with forced PC.
  4. Shift Up's Stella Blade rises as an opposition against woke video games (April 5, 2024) - A report on Stella Blade's launch, the article shifts its topic to external controversies in the halfway, highlighting IGN France's reports. It argues its protagonist, Eve, has offended people driven by PC and drew undeserved criticisms, and in response, the gamers tired of PC have now gathered to fight back, all over the world. As an example, the author attached an screenshot of a tweet that photoshops Eve as a fat woman.

I should mention these were written by three different authors, one of which is Jo Hakdong I mentioned earlier, who did Article 1.

My verdict on Game Donga is that it fails WP:RS to be of any use. Despite its connection with reputable Dong-A Ilbo, this was barely translated into creating useful contents and the website is run by people without credentials, a fact clearly shown in its articles, providing on flame baits rather than actual reporting. It has a habit of information laundering, like Article 4, which tries to spin a tweet by insignificant person as a general opinion even though there's no grounded proof to assume so. I suggest this website be marked unreliable. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 13:48, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Going just on what's presented here, I'd have to say unreliable. That said, if you have the expertise to evaluate Korean sources, please continue to do so! We desperately need vetted and reliable non-English sourcing. -- ferret (talk) 14:11, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unreliable per the lack of editorial policy and writers with professional credentials. Sergecross73 msg me 16:53, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fanbyte 2

It seems the media apocalypse has claimed another one. :( This was previously discussed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources/Archive_25#Fanbyte , which leaned toward maybe reliable since it had some known names on the "About" page (2022 version), and Fanbyte is currently marked "other reliable". Unfortunately, lots (all?) of these names don't appear to work there anymore, including EIC Danielle Riendeau (https://twitter.com/Danielleri says she's at GameDev, https://x.com/imranzomg?lang=en says "formerly" Fanbyte, https://x.com/hunktears says "formerly" Fanbyte). If we advance to the 2023 version, their about page is merely a redirect to their bare-bones help page about subscriptions to WOWhead and refunds and such. And after mid-2023, they took down the About page entirely. The current Fanbyte front page is just game-guidey stuff for a handful of popular games designed to match search terms ("Best Build for Lyney Main DPS", "Best Build for Arlecchino Main DPS", etc.). Anna Koselke appears to be a known name at least, but she's also churning out listicles. It unfortunately seems clear that some savage cutbacks happened, and they're just barely keeping the lights on with low-effort, low-paid stuff. I think that Fanbyte post-2023 should probably be downgraded to situational. SnowFire (talk) 06:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought we actually already had a conversation that essentially supported this recently. Or maybe it stalled out before a decision was made? Sergecross73 msg me 12:01, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Checking the archives: Oh, it's at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources/Archive_30#Fanbyte. Yeah this already came up, but it looks like the section was quietly archived - the main WP:VG/RS page does not link to the 2nd discussion and still marks Fanbyte as reliable, which is why I didn't know it'd occurred. SnowFire (talk) 16:36, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Gotcha, I wondered if that's what happened, but didn't have the time to dig it up earlier. Anyways, I agree with what you're saying and what we were saying at that discussion. Unless there's any new opposition, I think we've got enough support for it. Sergecross73 msg me 16:44, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's good that we could revisit this source. I agree that it's reliable, even if it's defunct now. (To be clear, it would not be reliable after the layoffs and shift to gameguide content.) Shooterwalker (talk) 16:40, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I brought it up on the main WT:VG here. I think they used to do good work and there are still a few people left there doing actual editorial instead of just guides, but it's not much. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Market Realist

I was editing the Billy Mitchell article when I came across this source. I'm unsure if it's unreliable, so I'm starting a discussion here. — lunaeclipse (talk) 00:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't look like it. It reads like SEO bait for "[person X] net worth" searches, barely researched drivel. It doesn't mention any of his lawsuits or controversies which would affect his net worth. If you look at other net worth articles on the site, they're all in the same boilerplate copy-pasta'd format. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:07, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gamerjive

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Pretty open and shut case for unreliable. Seems to use AI to write articles ("Useless Rising"?), given they're also pretty blatantly stolen from other publications. Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:36, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, the well-known "Xbox Collection X" platform. Ugh. Complete AI created garbage. Extremely unreliable. Sergecross73 msg me 01:02, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kung Fu Man, yeah, I have to agree, it's laughably bad content farm garbage. Unreliable. — lunaeclipse (talk) 00:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TheXboxHub

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I'm currently finding sources to create a potential Garten of BanBan article. There is currently one promising source, Stephanie Sterling's The Jimquisition. There's also this review from TheXboxHub. They (XboxHub) are on Metacritic and seem to have some decent writers there. One of them even wrote a science textbook. I could see this being situational though, as some writers do not have any experience prior to joining the website's staff. — lunaeclipse (talk) 00:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming that Jimquisition is just for opinion and isn't being used for notability, that should be fine with it's current situational listing, but I'm not sure about TheXBoxHub.
Being on MetaCritic is a positive for notability, but it isn't the only factor and there are sources on there that are explicitly listed as unreliable.
TheXBoxHub have a couple of people who've done professional work as writers on the team outside of the gaming area, but the owner who is also the only editor's LinkedIn only shows running TheXBoxHub. No prior experience at other sites (echoed on their OpenCritic page), and no credentials that'd be useful as an editor. There's also no editorial policy that I can see, only some minor stuff on the about page.
Unless there's something I'm missing, with such insufficient editorial oversight, it seems unreliable. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 23:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FandomWire

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Hi. Since the site FandomWire is not yet listed in Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources, I need a confirmation on whether or not the site is reliable. Thanks. PrimalMustelid (talk) 22:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fortress of Solitude

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Found a new 12 game list. By the way its worded seems unordered. Would like it added to the database — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alena 33 (talkcontribs) 21:37, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For context, the "list" in reference is this one, while the "database" is this one. More context here. Rhain (he/him) 22:09, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any thoughts? Alena 33 (talk) 16:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ThisIsGame

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ThisIsGame is a video game news media website created in 2005 and based in South Korea. It was founded by former newspaper journalist, Im Sanghun, and provides up-to-date news for both domestic and foreign video gaming. It does field reports and interviews frequently, with the recent ones including Kim Hyung-tae ([2]), Faker ([3]), John Hanke ([4]), Overwatch 2 developers ([5]), and Lies of P developers ([6]).

ThisIsGame has corporate partnerships with other news media, both within and outside of its country. It has had an official partnership with Gamasutra (currently Game Developer) for a long time (the exact start year is hard to pinpoint, but I think it's around 2009), providing each other with their articles and translating them into their language. I can confirm this is true; this ThisIsGame article from 2019 and this Gamasutra article from 2011 note they were translated from each other. This ThisIsGame article from April 2024 mentions the partnership with Game Developer again, meaning they're still working together. Other known partner companies of ThisIsGame include 17173, a Chinese video game portal, and QooApp, a mobile game news website. I can't find much about these.

It should be noted the website celebrates its anniversary with congrats and artworks and others from video game companies, mostly domestic but some foreign. In its 16th anniversary in 2021, it received them from Kakao Games, Arc System Works, Mihoyo, Blizzard Entertainment, and more. Their 14th anniversary prior has messages from Nintendo, Epic Games, Riot Games, and Bandai Namco. This doesn't give them credentials, but it does show it has connections to general video game industry and doesn't just exist in a vacuum.

Its About Us page is lackluster, which is par for the course for Korean online media in general. It has a vague introduction of its goal of discussing online video games and offering critiques of the current video gaming. Not a lot of words about its editorial policy. There doesn't seem to be a comprehensive list of employees, so I decided to dig up some records of authors myself and found these four people, of which the first two give the website significant credentials:

  • Im Sanghun (임상훈) AKA Simon Lim: Linkedin. The founder and CEO of ThisIsGame. His Linkedin page lists a lot of career: he was a journalist and columnist at Ilgan Sports (1999–2004) and The Hankyoreh (2017–2018), the latter specifically being for the weekly magazine The Hankyoreh21; he is a judge for Gamescom Awards since 2016 and The Game Awards since 2019; he is an advisor of the Chinese video game portal 17173.com since 2013. Ilgan Sports and The Hankyoreh are both reasonably prestigious journalism organizations with long history (Ilgan Sports founded in 1969 and The Hankyoreh in 1988).
  • Hyeon Namil (현남일): Better known as his nickname, Kkaeseutong (깨스통). He was previously an author at the print magazine PC Powerzine (AKA PC Champ), one of the more famous South Korean video game magazine that ran from 1995 to 2005. PC Powerzine has a helpful archive over here so I checked the record. I can confirm his name appears in the magazine's credits as "journalist". He ran his own column in the magazine during his tenure and I even found his photo from 2004 (the third from the left on top row). In his current position at ThisIsGame, he writes some articles as well as managing a YouTube channel under the website that reviews mobile games.
  • Kim Jaeseok (김재석): Linkedin. Joined in July 2018. Is also a writer for GameGeneration ([7]), a video game web magzine sponsored by GameCulture Foundation and Krafton.
  • Julia Kim: Linkedin. She doesn't directly work for ThisIsGame, but she collaborated with the website in 2020 as a coordinator at Nexon Computer Museum. This article is the first of a series and it appears she wrote about a dozen for it. The museum also did a video interview of the ThisIsGame founder, which this website self-published here, so if you want to know more about Lim, this article is it.

My overall verdict on ThisIsGame is generally positive. It has affliation with tons of well-established companies, which include well-known developers (Mihoyo, Nexon, Blizzard Entertainment, and Krafton) and reliable sources in our list (Gamasutra). It has at least two experienced individuals with credentials (Simon Lim and Hyeon Namil) who, as the founder and the general manager respectively, appear to oversee the press and the quality of the articles. Their footprints outside of the website, like the Gamasutra articles, are also noted. Its ambiguously worded editorial policy and the lack of a list for its journalists are a concern, but not enough to undermine these factors. My opinion is this can be considered valid. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 13:04, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]