Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! (British series 1)

Closure statement

This discussion has received a substantial amount of input, and it seems like there are some clear cut arguments on either side:

• The delete argument is mainly predicated on the quality of the lists, namely a lack of references, poor formatting and violations of MOS:TV, fancruft, WP:INDISCRIMINATE listings and a tendency to attract WP:OR and weak sources and that this should justify deletion despite any notability points. Ancillary to the notability point it's also been said that while the main I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! may be notable, the individual series on it aren't.
• There are also redirect arguments which mostly echo the delete ones and point to the individual series already being summarized on the main page, or which suggest merging the content over or the application of WP:TNT.
• The keep camp points to WP:GNG and states that the topic meets its criteria and that we don't delete notable topics owing to their poor quality, and that the pages are informative. Also some editors have contested that the quality of the sourcing is not in fact always bad. Some keeps have advocated tagging the pages for maintenance or stated that the nomination violates WP:BEFORE. Finally, there are also a bunch of essentially blank keep arguments which merely say "Why is this being deleted after so long?" or "Lots of people worked on this" w/o any concrete argument.
• There is also a bit of a discussion about this being a "test case" for the notability of such series articles in general and about whether it's proper to discuss that in the form of an AFD dedicated solely to the series articles of one particular reality TV show.

Going by headcount we are at 1 delete (the nominator), 2 delete or redirect, 8 redirect and 15 keep (+1 "retain" which I am inclined to count as keep). That is not a clear cut keep consensus so we need to analyze the arguments as well. Regarding the quality of the article, it seems like opinions are fairly split on whether the poor quality of the pages warrants deletion, and the deletion policy does not encourage such deletions but does not explicitly ban them. Regarding the notability point, a lot of keep arguments here are not clear on whether they are saying that the individual series articles are notable or whether they mean I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! is notable ... the arguments for the latter being notable are compelling but it's never been practice on Wikipedia that a topic being notable automatically makes its subtopics/subpages also notable. DreamFocus's and Masem's arguments are perhaps the clearest of the keep camp that address the seasons/main series distinction while the redirect/delete camp all argues that either the quality arguments outweigh the notability based ones or that the notability claims don't apply to the articles under discussion here. Regarding procedural issues, it seems like there is no policy or guideline that disallows "test case" based AFD nominations but the WP:BEFORE point is a bit more debatable as some keeps have flagged "If the article can be fixed through normal editing" as a potential problem for the AFD.

Anyhow, seeing as we are at AFD stage and it received enough input - including about concerns such as sub-series notability and long lasting quality issues that can't be defeated by simply pointing to WP:BEFORE - it seems like this discussion should be assessed like any other deletion discussion. My reading is of the consensus here is that there isn't one - while the keep camp is somewhat numerically superior, the confusion about sub-series notability vs. main reality series notability points to notability concerns and that combined with the quality issues towards a delete. Overall though there is no clear consensus in this discussion to warrant deletion, keeping or redirecting as no side has a clear upper hand here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:45, 3 December 2019 (UTC)