User talk:TonyBallioni/Archive 27

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Someone Posing as Tatzref on Stormfront

Hello Tony, Please see my User page for the continuing saga of the closed enforcement action against me. This post & comments also refer to you: [REDACTED - Oshwah] Thank you.Tatzref (talk) 23:22, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Someone impersonating me is posting fraudulent posts on other websites that mention you in the context of the enforcement request against me made by Icewhiz. See:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1273151/
https://justice4poland.com/about/comment-page-1/#comment-175230

Tatzref (talk) 04:33, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

UPE

I came to this when a user applied for NPR at PERM. I checked out their creations which seemed to have all the hallmarks of paid for articles. While at least one of them already was created or edited by a blocked sock, I came up with this. I don't have time to check further. Maybe there is something you can do. I did not grant the NPR right.

data
Editor Interaction Analyser - Timeline 
   23:06, 24 January 2019 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (8,088 bytes) (+34) . . (added Category:Nigerian politicians using HotCat)
   23:06, 24 January 2019 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (8,054 bytes) (+43) . . (added Category:Nigerian political candidates using HotCat)
   23:06, 24 January 2019 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (8,011 bytes) (+301) . . (#1Lib1Ref)
   23:00, 24 January 2019 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (7,710 bytes) (+110) . . (#1Lib1Ref)
   10:19, 13 October 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (10,937 bytes) (+25) . . (added Category:Politicians using HotCat)
   ... 140 days ...
   12:37, 25 May 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,872 bytes) (+2) . . (Edited some references)
   20:41, 23 May 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) m . . (10,870 bytes) (+363) . . (Added and edited some references)
   16:43, 11 April 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,507 bytes) (-2) . . ()
   12:27, 11 April 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,509 bytes) (-16) . . ()
   ... 36 days ...
   09:48, 06 March 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (10,525 bytes) (+4) . . ()
   16:45, 17 February 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (10,521 bytes) (-164) . . (/* Politics */)
   ... 16 days ...
   11:20, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,636 bytes) (+0) . . ()
   11:19, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,636 bytes) (-26) . . ()
   11:17, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,662 bytes) (+126) . . ()
   11:01, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,536 bytes) (+48) . . (/* Humanitarian */)
   10:54, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,488 bytes) (+59) . . ()
   10:35, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,429 bytes) (-1) . . ()
   09:13, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (10,430 bytes) (-32) . . ()
   09:12, 01 February 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) m . . (10,462 bytes) (+0) . . (Adebayo.abraham moved page Buruju Kashamu to Buruji Kashamu: This is the real name of the Article.)
   ... 2 days ...
   09:33, 29 January 2017 (diff | hist) Becktea (talk | contribs) m . . (10,462 bytes) (-4) . . ()
   09:32, 29 January 2017 (diff | hist) Becktea (talk | contribs) m . . (10,466 bytes) (-4) . . (Fixed red links and categories)
   09:32, 29 January 2017 (diff | hist) Becktea (talk | contribs) m . . (10,470 bytes) (-95) . . ()
   ... 1 days ...
   06:10, 28 January 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (10,519 bytes) (-2,687) . . ()
   ... 16 hours ...
   13:58, 27 January 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (13,206 bytes) (+126) . . ()
   12:59, 27 January 2017 (diff | hist) Adebayo.abraham (talk | contribs) . . (13,096 bytes) (+9,625) . . (Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).)
   ... 8 days ...
   15:44, 18 January 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (3,471 bytes) (+2) . . ()
   15:42, 18 January 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (3,469 bytes) (+485) . . ()
   15:22, 18 January 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (2,984 bytes) (-1) . . ()
   15:21, 18 January 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (2,985 bytes) (-121) . . ()
15:20, 18 January 2017 (diff | hist) Kaizenify (talk | contribs) . . (3,106 bytes) (+nan) . . (←Created page with ' {{Infobox senator |name = Buruju Kashamu |image = |caption = |office = Senator of the Federal Republic of Nigeria representing...')

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:49, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Kudpung. I'll look at this tomorrow. Busy today and was focused on the UTRS backlog for CU requests. TonyBallioni (talk) 22:21, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Talk page stalkers! I have found the best current event article ever! Let's get it to GA!

See 2019 mass invasion of Russian polar bears. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:00, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

I prefer 2019 mass invasion of Costco bears. Natureium (talk) 02:25, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Name

Thanks for changing my name. Would it be possible to redact my old name from a talk page where I got doxxed, please? A145GI15I95 (talk) 23:24, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi A145GI15I95, I do not handle requests for suppression on renames that I have done myself. Please follow the instructions at WP:OS for emailing the rest of the team, and they will consider the request. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:26, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, I've submitted there. Also may I ask, WP:RENAME advises I recreate my old name as a separate account, to prevent impersonation. But my attempt to do so fails with message "too similar to [old name]. Is that a new safeguard; or is that a temporary limitation, and I should try again on a later date? A145GI15I95 (talk) 23:51, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
That's a new safeguard (within the last 6 months IIRC, but I'm on too many mailing lists, so things run together...) Regardless, you should be fine. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:53, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.17

Hello TonyBallioni,

News
Discussions of interest
  • Two elements of CSD G6 have been split into their own criteria: R4 for redirects in the "File:" namespace with the same name as a file or redirect at Wikimedia Commons (Discussion), and G14 for disambiguation pages which disambiguate zero pages, or have "(disambiguation)" in the title but disambiguate a single page (Discussion).
  • {{db-blankdraft}} was merged into G13 (Discussion)
  • A discussion recently closed with no consensus on whether to create a subject-specific notability guideline for theatrical plays.
  • There is an ongoing discussion on a proposal to create subject-specific notability guidelines for chemicals and organism taxa.
Reminders
  • NPR is not a binary keep / delete process. In many cases a redirect may be appropriate. The deletion policy and its associated guideline clearly emphasise that not all unsuitable articles must be deleted. Redirects are not contentious. See a classic example of the templates to use. More templates are listed at the R template index. Reviewers who are not aware, do please take this into consideration before PROD, CSD, and especially AfD because not even all admins are aware of such policies, and many NAC do not have a full knowledge of them.
NPP Tools Report
  • Superlinks – allows you to check an article's history, logs, talk page, NPP flowchart (on unpatrolled pages) and more without navigating away from the article itself.
  • copyvio-check – automatically checks the copyvio percentage of new pages in the background and displays this info with a link to the report in the 'info' panel of the Page curation toolbar.
  • The NPP flowchart now has clickable hyperlinks.

Six Month Queue Data: Today – Low – 2393 High – 4828
Looking for inspiration? There are approximately 1000 female biographies to review.
Stay up to date with even more news – subscribe to The Signpost.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings.

--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Ckeckuser request

Hi Tony. Can I request checkuser take a look at User:OutofBounds2019Film? I filed a SPI at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/OutofBounds2019Film, but the case was—correctly—closed before checkuser could run. However, comments on my talkpage at User_talk:SamHolt6#Confusion-Out_of_Bounds indicate some strange activity (editors refer to themselves in the plural), and an SPA active at a deleted version of Draft:Out of Bounds (2019 film) (I lack admin goggles and thus cant provide names) imply that some sort of sockpuppetry may be taking place. If this request is inappropriate, sorry for the interruption. Best. SamHolt6 (talk) 00:30, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello SamHolt6,
When the user account was initially setup, it was mistakenly thought that the user name chosen should match the name of the proposed listing. Once it was determined that was not the case, the user name was changed. Then, a notification was sent stating that intern Staci was in violation of the COI policy. The aforementioned was unbeknownst at the time. At no time was anything done with any ill intent. Also, to address your concern with the term “we”; it was merely speaking about our company as a whole. And not in the sense of multiple people from our company using an account etc. Again, there is not any sockpuppetry taking place nor did it ever take place.24.47.115.67 (talk) 02:42, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Scrub request

Hello, TonyBallioni. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Oops

Seems like I missed an exciting game last night. I don't really follow basketball as closely as I should, and I had to drop a kid off at night at a camp. Night driving to camp is very good for my gas mileage (64mpg for the day), but bad for basketball-watching. The final is a close game. Drmies (talk) 01:24, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Tyler Morris Page Undelete Falsely Deleted

Hello, After reviewing the your conversation about the Tyler Morris page I did some research and found links to substantiate Billboard and other aspects of this article. How can I go about undeleting this page?

Tyler Morris Band Billboard Charts #8 Jan 12, 2019 Link: https://www.billboard.com/charts/blues-albums/2019-01-12

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/rock__rolls_new_hope_meet_tyler_morris_an_experienced_19-year-old_guitarist_with_three_solo_albums_behind_him.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stacey196 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Stacey196 (talk) 03:59, 17 March 2019 (UTC)


An article you deleted on AfD 8 days ago, Tyler Morris, has been recreated by what I can see a single purpose account. It may be G4 applicable. I would also recommend salting it for a while if it is deleted again. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 12:09, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I recreated this page because I believe it was falsely deleted. This artist has just charted on Billboard at #8 (week of Jan 12, 2019) and is a Gibson Guitars artist as well as having many other accomplishments. I have tried to reach out to Tony but he has not responded. BobKelley (talk) 13:31, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

  • Hmm I'm TonyBallioni's PR agent, and at this moment Tony doesn't have anything to share with you, but for a more general idea of his editing philosophy I refer you to his monthly series of videos which feature his many other accomplishments. He has a sunburst back. Drmies (talk) 16:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Busy

Hi all, I'm very busy IRL right now, so if you've sent me an email/posted here, it may take a week or so for me to get around to it. I'm still around daily, but doing things that are simple or a bit more urgent. No intent to ignore anyone, just only have so much time available for the next few weeks. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:21, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

  • So this is not a good time to drag you before ArbCom? I was thinking of making up some charges. Take care Tony. Drmies (talk) 16:22, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

User:Apex Haxor

I cannot say that I have been paying attention to the Lulz brigades, however, I have just deleted this, their only contribution, and thought someone with greater key controls should know in case it is part of some other problematic editing. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

billinghurst, no other accounts visible and the range hasn't been checked before. My guess is that it is just a kid. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:01, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Request

Hi Tony! You are the one who can prevent me from ban. From now I will hardly relist AfDs. Topic ban will be harsh. Thanks ~SS49~ {talk} 16:57, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi! What are the things that I should follow after the topic ban at AfD? Can I vote on AfD discussions? Please let me know. Thanks SS49 (talk) 02:35, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi SS49. My reading of GoldenRing's close is that you are banned from everything but voting on AfDs. That means, yes, you are able to vote. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:59, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
I recently nominated an article for deletion and sorted the deletion discussion. Sorry for the mistake. Thought sorting is not an issue. SS49 (talk) 03:04, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
@SS49: I thought my close was pretty clear: You are banned from sorting and from relisting and from closing discussions at AfD. You may contribute to discussions there and !vote. GoldenRing (talk) 09:21, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Response

Hello! An administrator came by and unblocked me. They left me some guidelines and procedures. If you need me to leave the message on my talk page, just let me know. Thank you for bringing this to my attention Red Director (talk) 15:36, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Greetings

Hello TonyBallioni, please indulge me one last attempt to understand the provisions of NOQUORUM. Because it says "If a nomination has received few or no comments from any editor with no one opposing deletion, and the article hasn't been declined for proposed deletion in the past ..., I am understanding that to mean a determination must first be made that the article has never survived a proposed deletion in the past before continuing on to treat the XfD nomination as an expired PROD. I am assuming that a nomination that received few or no comments from any editor with no one opposing deletion, where the article has been declined for proposed deletion in the past should instead be relisted (at least one time with discretion then being used). If I am correct about this, I maintain my belief that an effective means of determining whether an XfD has ever survived a PROD in the past or not would be a great ability, well worth being developed. If it is not necessary to determine whether or not an XfD has ever survived a PROD in the past before treating such XfDs as expired PRODs, in my opinion the conjoined requirement should be removed. I am sorry if I am coming across as a complete bonehead, I am not trying to be an ass. I am actually trying to help. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 19:14, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

John Cline, you're fine. Don't worry about it. I get where you're coming from, but I think my view is somewhat similar to what Beeblebrox said at WT:AFD: most of these articles don't have a particularly extensive talk history, so it'd be about the same thing we do anytime we delete PRODs right now. Check the history and the talk page, and it is pretty obvious. I agree if there was a long history, some sort of log would be useful, but I think Czar has suggested some sort of bot for this. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:00, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Block a sock?

NPC 00120009 (talk · contribs)

This account was apparently created back in October to sleep for five months before reverting one of my edits. No idea who it could be (I was relatively inactive around 19 October); it might even not be someone coming after me, but just a random troll.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:23, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Hijiri88, sorry, missed this. I don’t have my tools right now, but I’ll take a look when I get home. TBallioni (talk) 17:22, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
Hello, TonyBallioni. You have new messages at יניב הורון's talk page.
Message added 11:02, 24 March 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Spoonkymonkey and Rachel Marsden

I was going to request article protection again. The harassment that Spoonkymonkey is receiving is no excuse for ignoring discussing and edit-warring, all the harassment cannot make it easy to focus on the content dispute. --Ronz (talk) 19:32, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Blocked 72 hours under Gamergate DS. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:42, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I hate to see these things happen. --Ronz (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

A peace dove for you!

The Duke 21:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC) has given you a dove! Doves promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past (this fits perfectly) or a good friend. Cheers!

Spread the peace of doves by adding {{subst:Peace dove}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

  • I am sorry for everything Tony, the childish ways of my past, the failure to get the point, and the stupid way I try to appeal the block 6 months ago. I cannot thank you enough for unblocking me, and I hope you can forgive me off the past, and hopefully I can have a better future. Thank you. The Duke 21:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
    • No need to apologize. Welcome back, and happy editing. :) TonyBallioni (talk) 21:30, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
    • I have logged the single account restriction at WP:ER/UC as well. Mkdw talk 23:00, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Do not make blocking user

Do not make any sockpuppets or blocks in my user page, because if you not understand what if I said, and you been removed as an administrator, understand? --181.39.99.166 (talk) 04:38, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Quiver in fear, all admins, now that IPs have the power to desysop. Meters (talk) 04:41, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

You shouldn’t DO IT 220.101.5.173 (talk) 01:46, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

The genus is Trollis. Request a taxonomist to identify the species. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:34, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The No Spam Barnstar
For continuing to oppose what you described as TOU bludgeoning. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:37, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

One of the more blatant examples of TOU bludgeoning occurred about a year ago when a paid editor for Beutler dragged Spintendo to ANI for not making the edits that they had requested via Edt Requests. However, on questioning, they were unable to state what administrative action they wanted taken, because they were not requesting either a block or a topic-ban from Spintendo servicing any Edit Requests. Some of us tried to publicize the report as much as we could precisely in order to discourage both Edit Requests and the servicing of Edit Requests. I thought (and said) that they were taking a corporate attitude that Spintendo was a hired employee, and could be bullied into doing what they told him to do. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:43, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Raymond3023

Just want to note that I explicitly supported the appeal (see "I support the request" here). I can't argue with your conclusion, just wanted to note that it was not unanimous. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:31, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Ivanvector, I’m on a bit of a break, but a quick reply: since you didn’t comment in the admin section, I thought you were commenting as an editor and not in review of the appeal since the AE format only counts the views of administrators in determining consensus on appeals, I only saw Sandstein’s comments as being part of the review. The practice I’ve always seen at AE is that admins comment in the editor section if they don’t want to be part of the “admin” side of AE. If you intended yours to be part of it, I can amend my comment when I get online again. Sorry for any confusion. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:26, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Ah, it's one of those needlessly confusing format things that Arbcom loves so much. No big deal. Enjoy your time away :) Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:19, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
I am not seeing why the appeal had to be declined. I made nearly 600 edits since the topic ban and there have been nobody raised any issues or sanctioned me for my behavior in these 10 months. Unless someone could provide evidence of recent misconduct then I would be fine but so far no one provided such an evidence. Can you explain your decline? Thanks Raymond3023 (talk) 13:16, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi Raymond3023. Granting a discretionary sanctions appeal requires the clear and substantial consensus of administrators at AE, and even if we count Ivanvector’s support you’d be at 1 grant and 2 declines, which doesn’t meet that standard. You could appeal at AN, but given the lack of comment there recently for AE appeals (and the lack of comment at AE about this TBAN), your best bet of an appeal at this time is likely WP:ARCA.
Speaking for myself, my standard for lifting any block or sanction is that the person appealing should demonstrate that the potential benefits of granting the appeal outweigh the known disruption that caused the sanction to be placed. I don’t think 500 vandal reverts meets that standard when it comes to lifting an AE topic ban. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:46, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Sockpuppet

I don't know if you are right person i should inform about case but you are the person who blocked the user. User under name CBG17, after JCC199 which you blocked as sockpuppet has created another account and is using name Aviation999. He is causing lots of edit waring again across Wiki. Is it possible to open investigation. Thank you Wappy2008 (talk) 15:28, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Wappy2008, they’re  Confirmed to one another. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:30, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
@TonyBallioni: thank you Tony for looking into it, i will inform you accordingly when i see that user is back again Wappy2008 (talk) 19:08, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Question

Hi Tony! Where can I request to remove topic ban at AfDs? I realized my mistakes and I won't do anything which may harm the community. ~SS49~ {talk} 12:44, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi SS49, you would appeal at WP:AN, but I would not suggest that. You were only recently topic banned, and the community generally prefers to see more time before appeals are considered. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:41, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion. ~SS49~ {talk} 15:50, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2019

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2019).

Technical news

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

  • Two more administrator accounts were compromised. Evidence has shown that these attacks, like previous incidents, were due to reusing a password that was used on another website that suffered a data breach. If you have ever used your current password on any other website, you should change it immediately. All admins are strongly encouraged to enable two-factor authentication, please consider doing so. Please always practice appropriate account security by ensuring your password is secure and unique to Wikimedia.
  • As a reminder, according to WP:NOQUORUM, administrators looking to close or relist an AfD should evaluate a nomination that has received few or no comments as if it were a proposed deletion (PROD) prior to determining whether it should be relisted.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:57, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Concerns Regarding User:Bbb23 and Possible Misuse of Admin/CU Abilities". Thank you. Notifying you as I mentioned your name. Nil Einne (talk) 10:23, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

You blocked my account for sock puppetry

May I know which other account I have? To the best of my knowledge, there is only this one. There was another one I thought VidyutGore - but I can't seem to find the login for it and certainly haven't used it recently. The block doesn't bother me, because I don't have anything to edit this week or the next or the week after that.... but surely there would be a requirement to mention any other account I used? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.187.50.153 (talk) 19:57, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Please log in to your account and I will discuss the block then on your talk page. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:01, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Own edit raising concerns that probable sockpuppet would be unblocked was undone by suspected sock. (banned user User:יניב הורון)

Per title I added the concern in the midst of a block review (about a month ago) to said talk page, and now, I'm unsure where to address this, So I will merely show you the edit where the user removed my concerns promptly after I posted them. I've also gone to the other involved admin that I tagged in the first post. (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%91_%D7%94%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9F&diff=886037292&oldid=886033883&diffmode=source) - R9tgokunks ⭕ 07:13, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

I have not checked Yaniv, but he and the master you claim would not be on the same continent. If you have a concern about socking, the best course of action is to file an WP:SPI report and let a clerk or CU evaluate it. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:39, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Explain

Explain your revert, since you failed to provide an edit summary. You are not a bureaucrat and people (including bureaucrats) are still participating in the discussion. Your close is disruptive and unneeded. Please revert your close. Nihlus 18:39, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

I think the close speaks for itself, and I consider your continued badgering of this topic to be inappropriate. If a crat feels like it should be opened, they can do so. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:41, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Your close was challenged, so you should not reopen it yourself. Also, your badgering comment is laughable considering your recent edits here. I'll give you the chance to revert it, or I will likely handle it myself. Nihlus 18:46, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
I will not be reopening it, and you should not either. If a ‘crat wants it open, they can handle it. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:51, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

As acknowledged by the final respondent, it was a question for the 'crats in good faith. That's why it was on their page addressed to them. It is not part of any Arb Com. decision in the matter. A Crat will close it. Leaky caldron (talk) 18:42, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

I’m aware it was asked in good faith, but it was going nowhere and the way it was heading was not productive and harms the community. Crats are unlikely to close discussions like that because it involves their own actions, so I went ahead and did it. There are multiple RfCs on this topic now, and commenting on those would be the best thing to do. As you can see by my comment in the most recent RfC, philosophically I’m with you. I just don’t think that particular discussion was achieving anything useful. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:51, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Please accept that it doesn't look good from my perspective to see my question about 'crat accountability closed and within minutes jumping on what effectively is a do-away-with-crats RfC. I agree it was resented by many and unlikely to go anywhere, but that is also true of 90% of RfCs which sometimes run for months. Maybe if you had asked? Leaky caldron (talk) 18:57, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Leaky caldron it had been open for almost a day, I thought? I’m not really sure how I could be construed as biased against your question since I effectively agree with you on the fact that the numbers should be harder limits. The issue is that some users were using it as an opportunity to relitigate the RexxS crat chat and were quite frankly being rude and fanning the flames of drama. I agree there are legitimate questions that can be asked, but I think the most appropriate way to answer them is in an RfC, not by continuing to hound the crats about the last RfA. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:09, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
I've never understood the urge for others to stifle discussion simply because they personally do not see it going anywhere, especially a discussion on WP:BN where the bureaucrats are actively involved. Saying that the 'crats can open in if they see fit while they are actively leaving comments is a haughty response if I have ever seen one. Nihlus 18:59, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I've never understood the urge for some editors to badger other users instead of, say, improving Dreamland Margate from the sorry state it is currently in. Nihlus, be grateful I was out having a good time for most of the weekend, as if I had spotted your near violation of the three revert rule on RuPaul's Drag Race (season 10) (and multiple other articles on the same topic) before the whole thing went stale, I would have considered a block. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:37, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Sent you mail!

Hello, TonyBallioni. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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Help me

Hi Admin . I’m Abdullah Zubayer. Last 2 year I cannot acces this account that’s way I cannot use . Can i use this account? What is the functioning of this account and what kind of Wikipedia policy has worked out? I have had a good base experience in English Wikipedia. I have helped some of my friends who have helped in many articles. If I have not made any kind of policy, then if I tell you a few, then my administrators will accept my request. Hopefully if I am wrong, I will apologize for all Abdullah Zubayer (talk) 2:58, 24 April 2019. Abdullah Zubayer (talk) 20:59, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

what part of the many times you’ve been told to stop socking was unclear? Praxidicae (talk) 21:01, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

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Recent edits deleted

Hi Tony. In my log, you may see some recent revdels. This on a user talk page where we both were posting recently. Can you check if anything more ought to be done? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 13:32, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

EdJohnston, handled, and I converted the block to an OS block. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:52, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Special Barnstar
Thank you for unblock me. I like to update the certifications of my favorites singers, in my case was Cardi B in her single Taki Taki. thank you again for unblock me, I'm so happy right now. <3 Harry123478k (talk) 15:02, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

You've got mail

Not wishing to establish the Official TonyBallioni Fan Club....
Hello, TonyBallioni. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.--Let There Be Sunshine 08:21, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Not wishing to establish the Official TonyBallioni Fan Club, but I sent you some too, and would appreciate a reply, even if it's "that's the worst idea I've ever heard, are you having a bleedin' giraffe?" Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:18, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
I’m so popular today! Ritchie333: I’ll reply later today. Let There Be Sunshine, CheckUser cannot be run without evidence. You’re free to email me with evidence privately rather than file an SPI, but I can’t just take your word for it. TonyBallioni (talk) 12:56, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Let There Be Sunshine: fix ping. TonyBallioni (talk) 12:57, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Mailed.--Let There Be Sunshine 17:58, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
@Nihlus and Let There Be Sunshine: I’m so sorry for being late to reply to both of you. RL and my wiki email have been busy, and I haven’t gotten around to non-list wiki emails in the last day. I plan to respond to both of your emails tomorrow morning. Sorry again, I usually try to respond to emails within 24 hours, but you’ve caught me at a busy time. TonyBallioni (talk) 05:43, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Dubai Aquarium & Underwater Zoo

Hello, there;

I saw that Dubai Aquarium & Underwater Zoo has no article on Wikipedia and yet there's a link to it on The Dubai Mall. In a bid to create an article on it, I saw that an article about it had existed but was deleted by you at the addition of it for Mass deletion by JLJ001, an account that's now indefinitely blocked by you. I'm making this known to you in accordance with the instruction of Wikipedia. Might I go ahead? YourCalyx (talk) 16:41, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

YourCalyx, you're free to recreate the article on it if there are reliable sources. It was deleted as the master was a long-term abuser. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:36, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

All right; copied that. YourCalyx (talk) 20:31, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, TonyBallioni;

I have done a draft of the article. Please kindly review, if you don't mind, and kindly tell me what you think.

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:YourCalyx/Dubai_Aquarium_%26_Underwater_Zoo

It was daunting and painstaking, I must remark. YourCalyx (talk) 11:51, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Block discussion on AN

Hi, regarding the block discussion on AN, I'm just a little confused how this discussion opened by a third party non-admin, when other unblock reviews still could be used is open and being discussed on AN, but my discussion was closed immediately by you. It seems to be almost similar cases. Thanks in advance for an explanation. Sir Joseph (talk) 04:50, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Robert McClenon wasn't appealing for another editor, and to be honest, it really isn't even a block review so much as Robert raising the Legacypac-BrownHairedGirl situation for community awareness and getting feedback as to if Legacy was correct in his assessment of BHG/if sanctions were warranted (or the very least, that is what it morphed into).
Put another way: Robert was basically asking for the community to tell Legacypac to knock of his fight with BHG, and it was basically written as an AN report, not an appeal I think phrasing it as a block review was awkward because of this, and I wouldn't have done it that way, but I think getting community input on a dispute between an administrator and a high-profile editor is something that AN can be useful for on occasion. Robert did not take a declined unblock appeal from a talk page to AN and appeal for another editor, which is what you did and why your appeal was closed. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:57, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Requesting Clarice Phelps article

Hello, you had deleted an article on a nuclear scientist named Clarice Phelps at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clarice Phelps and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clarice Phelps (2nd nomination), as the creators could not prove the subject's notability. Can you provide the source of the article so that I can try to find any external sources / references they might have missed? Also, if more sources are provided, will you restore the article? Thank You. --Jose Mathew (talk) 10:49, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi Jose Mathew C, at this time community consensus is that Phelps is not notable. There was a pretty exhaustive discussion about it, and having read the discussion through several times before deleting, the issue to me appears to be not that sourcing to indicate notability wasn’t produced, but that sourcing to indicate notability doesn’t exist (which is why we delete things...) I’m assuming there is some off-wiki advertising of this going on as this is the second message I’ve received about it in two days. You’d honestly be better talking to Icewhiz as they were the person who nominated the article for deletion. As an uninvolved administrator, I didn’t take part in the discussion, nor will I in the future. I assessed the community’s views on this and enacted them. Sorry if this isn’t the answer you want, but I think it’s an honest one. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:16, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I recently saw a piece in Wire, an India-based non-mainstream (but popular) publication about the deletion and I note that Mathew self identifies to be from India. Might be linked. ∯WBGconverse 15:18, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
By the way, my name is Jose, not Mathew. See the Tamil Nadu section on Indian name, or K. Kamaraj for an example. Sorry to be a pedant. --Jose Mathew (talk) 10:39, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
This's the article, though it over-emphasizes her role by quite much. ∯WBGconverse 15:27, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that is where I read it. By the way, they didn't write it, it is originally from some other site called Undark. You can find it here. My problem is that I hear one version of the story from them, and another from the deletion discussion. But without seeing the original article, I cannot know who is right. My request is that you keep this article in your userspace, or in the userspace of the creator, so that people can see it and decide for themselves. --Jose Mathew (talk) 10:39, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, it’s been republished in a lot of non-mainstream outlets. There’s also a WaPo op-ed co-written by the person who created the article (identity is public.) Speaking more broadly, I think a question needs to be asked as to why there is so little documentation here, and also ask if there is a similar lack of documentation for people with similar roles. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:35, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
As to the latter question, yes. A white male won't have got even these minimal levels of coverage. Need to read the WaPo-op-ed, though. ∯WBGconverse 15:50, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Phelps does not meet GNG. She also is not close to meeting the relevant SNG - WP:NPROF. The article was built off local press, ORNL PR, and quite a few WP:PRIMARY sources. AFAICT, Phelps never misrepresented herself. Our article, in an illustration of why we have WP:BLPPRIMARY, had several misrepresentations. Among other issues - we were calling her a dr. (PhD) when she in fact holds a b.sc (and appears per a PRIMARY source to be currently enrolled in a masters program, concurrent to her work in ORNL).Icewhiz (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Just to let you know: after having read the Slate article Wikipedia’s Refusal to Profile a Black Female Scientist Shows Its Diversity Problem and the discussions on here I fully intend to bring the article back and re-visit the discussion. If necessary I'll bring it up to Jimmy Wales himself: something needs to change with this incredible diversity bias that exists on Wikipedia. It is too great a resource to become the next 4chan or Reddit. She is the first African American woman who actually discovered an element. If that isn't notability, I do not know what is. I can name a dozen less notable men: from jewelers to any other profession who have their own page on here. Notability is FAR from a consistently applied criterium. Gem-fanat (talk) 18:50, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
You know Jimbo doesn't have any authority over Wikipedia's content, right? And she didn't discover an element; she was a lab technician on a team that discovered an element. Natureium (talk) 18:57, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I didn't vote in that discussion, I just closed it. I won't be lifting the creation protection, however, until something actually changes. Going to the press about how mad you are about the way Wikipedia works is not going to change whether or not someone is notable. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:04, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I will note that first to discover an element seems like WP:CITOGEN - beginning with our article misstating this. Slate says "As far as we know, Phelps was the first black woman..." - so not quite first, just the first we maybe know of. Phelps was a new (1st year) lab technician in a very large team - at this junior level (hundreds, even thousands of workers on a large multinational team) - it is quite likely there were prior African American women involved in past efforts.Icewhiz (talk) 19:23, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I think my point to Winged Blades of Godric was that in general, especially for claims of this type, we do need to ask ourselves why there is no previous claim of being the first. It’s not relevant to this AfD (which I closed from the perspective of a neutral administrator), but generally, a claim that significant requires substantial documentation. For positions that are relatively early career, very few people document who was the first to do what. That both makes claims easy to make, but from our position of analysis, causes us to ask whether the world at large considers such roles as noteworthy. I’m not suggesting a hard and fast answer either way, but these type of things require analysis of sourcing and facts beyond proportionate to the claim being made. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:33, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Point is that notability isn't applied equal or consistently. Over the years I've seen quite a few (always white men) making the notability requirement e.g. by having trade journal exposure. Or a local jeweler having exposure in local media - he probably paid for to begin with. I've literally seen dozens (and dozens) of those pages over the 10 years I've been editing on Wikipedia. It's not like I saw extensive discussions going over over every element of the Notability guidelines when this jeweler or personal brand got included. It's not like anyone really bothered to check. Even IF there was discussion on a talk page, barely anyone participated. Supposedly b/c Wikipedia editors are too overwhelmed. Going a step further: I know several digital marketeers whose clients they got included in Wikipedia. We all know these examples. How come no one started mickey-mousing the guidelines then? How come it was all cool to have marketeers post their clients? Not officially of course but no one bothered to delete those pages. They also all happen to be white men. So here's the situation: we all know women, and minorities are UNDER represented on wikipedia. We also know there is no commercial interest (b/c it's not a commercial entity and b/c it's very unlikely a scientist of any kind will get a grant, tenure or whatever else b/c of a wikipedia page). Wouldn't it make sense to give special attention to these cases? And IF you want to be strict then wouldn't it make sense to adjust the guidelines? Gem-fanat (talk) 20:23, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
And by the way Natureium I don't know WTF you are, but seeing your page, you've just registered with wikipedia and barely did 2 dozen entries, starting round about the time this whole discussion started? Thought you can push an agenda here? Certainly way over the top to be postulating what "Jimbo" can and cannot do. Gem-fanat (talk) 20:27, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
You must be delightful at cocktail parties.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:33, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Would you like a list of the female scientist I've created articles on? I'll try not to miss any. Leemor Joshua-Tor, Jue Chen, Kim Orth, Rachel Green, Kornelia Polyak, Sheila Singh, Mary Hatten, Judy E. Garber, Shelley Berger, Carol Gross, Sue Biggins, Jeannie T. Lee, Elizabeth Jaffee, Carol Prives, Lily Jan, Nancy E. Davidson, Nancy Kleckner. How about you now share your contributions to this area? Natureium (talk) 20:39, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
If you'd like the contribute to this area rather than just dramamongering, I've also got a list going of scientists that are almost guaranteed to fulfill the NPROF criteria. About 3/4 of them are women. Natureium (talk) 20:44, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
(edit conflict) That's pretty good considering "you've just registered with wikipedia".--Bbb23 (talk) 20:46, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
been trying to get my edit in on this page - someone beat me to it ;-). You can see what I've edited/added over the years from my history. That said, I re-checked you out and I admit I overlooked all you've done and totally misjudged you. So my apologies. Also I'll take you up on your offer and add my bits to these pages. Gem-fanat (talk) 20:50, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
To save anyone else the time of seeing what you've edited/added over the years from my history, you've created three articles in your entire history, none of which even mentions a woman, you've made 49 article edits in the last five years, not a single one of your most edited pages is related to women, and the only edit of any kind you've made to any female biography since 2010 was adding a piece of celebrity trivia to a biography of a swimsuit model. You may want to read our article on Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. ‑ Iridescent 21:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
That last article is a fascinating one. The old version linked says "Measuring at 5' 7½", Lorenzo is sometimes classified as a "petite model", although the measurements for petite and regular fashion models are not strictly defined."  — Amakuru (talk) 21:38, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Hi Tony, just FYI I have carried out a requested G4 deletion on an article Clarice E. Phelps that was added today through AFC and moved to main space by DGG. It didn't look to me like it added anything more substantial or any more evidence of notability than was in the two previously deleted versions, so the speedy deletion seemed valid per your decisions in the AFDs and the DRV, but if you think differently then of course feel free to take alternative action. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 23:11, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Amakuru. I appreciate your looking at this :) TonyBallioni (talk) 01:19, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Okay, that makes sense. I will request Icewhiz for a copy of the article. I read about this incident in an article on the website Wire. I wanted to see the article so I could decide who was right, and improve it if that would help save it. Thanks for your reply. --Jose Mathew (talk) 10:39, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Clarice Phelps (again)

Hi Tony. Please take a look at User:Levivich/Clarice Phelps. I think the new sources that specifically mention her (Undark, C&E News, WaPo), combined with the other stuff, are enough to meet GNG. The Oak Ridge portion of the article has been rewritten based on the information in these new sources. Enough to allow recreation? Thanks, Leviv ich 05:04, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) -- Oppose recreation. It's time to drop the stick. ∯WBGconverse 05:14, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
The new sources are about her deletion, not about her, and one of them was written by the author of the original article to complain about us deleting her. No. Nothing has changed, and I’m not going to take part in the destruction of this living person’s reputation to prove a political point on-wiki. I’m not lifting the salting, especially when multiple experienced editors and sysops have agreed the new coverage isn’t actually about her. TonyBallioni (talk) 05:20, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
To go on top of this, I’ll explain more and give honest advice: the underlying issue here is that we have an early career individual who was picked by someone in another country who isn’t overly familiar with American academia/research for an article. The consensus was that she was not notable and she was deleted. Anyone familiar with the field in question would have told you this was the likely result (program managers,, even on major undertakings, are rarely if ever notable by NPROF standards.) The article was then recreated and sent to AfD again, where multiple editors called for salting, and it was G4’d as it was substantially identical. The author of the article then wrote an op-ed that included complaining about the deletion. There was then a story republished around the internet a few days ago about it that in all likelihood can be traced to someone involved with the article. We now have a situation where the strongest argument for notability is that we deleted her: I think most people can see the BLP implications of this, and for someone so early in her career, it could be very significant.
I hate to ping Amakuru again, but he’s one of our most sensible sysops and he gave good advice which I’ll paraphrase: wait and see where this ends up. Emotions are charged right now, and having a 2nd DRV or 3rd AfD (and possibly another DRV...) is all that would happen with people saying hurtful things on both sides, the community further divided, and the very real possibility of further harm coming to the reputation of a living person from the on-wiki discussions that would ensue. If she is notable, more coverage will occur within the next 6-24 months, especially now that there’s articles about AfD. The other advantage to this approach is that it would ideally include more substantial coverage about her professional career and give time away from the controversy so that we’re less likely to get Lazarus accounts who read a news article showing up to talk about how she was deleted in an article that if it exists, I think everyone agrees should be about her and not us.
Tl;dr, even if she is notable, which it may turn out she is, at this point waiting is likely the best outcome. I’d be significantly more likely to lift the salting in 6-12 months when things have died down now. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:26, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Read this article; as to the wiki-connection of the author of the Undark/Wire piece. I am not explicitly linking to the account, lest it be perceived as a violation of outing policies but I note that she does not seem to be involved with Phelp's article or deletion. ∯WBGconverse 07:00, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Tony, but I think your decision is based on some misunderstandings. For example, you refer to her as an early career individual, but she's been a nuclear scientist for 15 years, has received multiple promotions, directs two isotope production programs, and is in charge of training new employees. You've said she is an apparently unwilling participate in all this, or that this is hurting her career, but that is without basis. She has given interviews for these new sources. She has promoted these new sources on her own LinkedIn. She is definitely aware and supportive. Third, you're super focused on Jess Wade, for reasons I don't really understand. She didn't write the op-ed, she co-wrote it (she's the second author, not the first), and that's only one out of three sources. There are now three other reputable writers who have written about Clarice Phelps in reliable sources since the last AfD (literally just in the last week or two). I'm not sure why you ignore that–and no, they didn't all just write about deletion. There is new information–new factual detail–about Phelps, the result of investigative reporting, which is what I tried to incorporate in the article. Also, I am highly skeptical of our taking a stance that we should discount a source because the person who wrote it is a Wikipedia editor. That would discourage published authors from becoming Wikipedia editors, and we certainly don't want that. Anyway, that's just some thoughts, but I thank you for taking the time to take a look at it and respond to my request here. Because there are three (what I feel are) good new articles from reputable sources (Undark, C&E News, and Washington Post) since the last time the community discussed this, I think the community should really be making this call, so I will probably ask for recreation at DRV. Thanks again, Leviv ich 13:01, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
That’s fine. I disagree with your assessment and my view on this remains that this is a bad idea from a BLP standpoint and a less than ideal one from a GNG one, but you are correct that community review via DRV is the best method. I still think you should wait a few months as this has the real potential to cause harm to a real human person, but with a case request, that boat may have already sailed. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Being an "Engineering Laboratory Technician" in the navy or "Nuclear Operations Technician", "Radiochemical Engineering Technician" (LinkedIn) in ORNL is generally not research science. That aside - WaPo is an op-ed (co-authored by the Wikipedia author) - so not WP:INDEPENDENT and regardless just an opinion - not a RS. C&EN - [1] - is a podcast with multiple participants. Phelps answers two questions. Interviews don't establish notability (not WP:INDEPENDENT, and in this case this also lacks depth). This leaves a single new piece of any note - the one on undark - which mainly covers the deletion of the Wikipedia article.Icewhiz (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
(ec) Being an "Engineering Laboratory Technician" in the navy or "Nuclear Operations Technician", "Radiochemical Engineering Technician" (LinkedIn) in ORNL is generally not research science. That aside - WaPo is an op-ed (co-authored by the Wikipedia author) - so not WP:INDEPENDENT and regardless just an opinion - not a RS. C&EN - [2] - is a podcast with multiple participants. Phelps answers two questions. Interviews don't establish notability (not WP:INDEPENDENT, and in this case this also lacks depth). This leaves a single new piece of any note - the one on undark - which mainly covers the deletion of the Wikipedia article.Icewhiz (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
It might not be research science, but it is science, and in any event, it's her job. She isn't new at this; she's been working with nuclear reactors–literally–for 15 years. Also, the C&E piece (and for those reading who don't know, Chemical & Engineering News is an official publication of the American Chemical Society) is about the discovery of superheavy elements. So everyone interviewed for that piece was involved in the discovery of such an element. Including Phelps. That does add to her notability. It's also not just an interview; there are statements (cited in my draft) that are in the author's own voice. Finally, here's C&E's official twitter account promoting the Undark piece. [3] Cut it how you want, the American Chemical Society is saying she's notable. Undark thinks she's notable. ORNL thinks she's notable. The Washington Post thinks she's notable. At what point do we agree with our own reliable sources? Anyway, this is all a discussion for DRV–see you there, Icewhiz :-) Leviv ich 13:24, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
I did want to address the early career point you raised: she appears to still be in grad school/has not competed it, which to me indicates she’s at the beginning of her eventual career in this field, which is why I described her as that, despite the time. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Being a program manager for six years is mid-level by any measure, regardless of degrees. Obviously, one doesn't need advanced degrees to be a program manager (one probably does to be a lab director or even a division head or group leader, but something tells me Ms. Phelps is more interested in the work than the rank). I do think you can sleep soundly not worrying that anything we're doing here is harming Clarice Phelps. I'm sure, 100% sure, she's aware of this and wants a Wikipedia article. Otherwise, she wouldn't be giving so many interviews. She is not someone avoiding the spotlight; she's seeking it. This person has been on a publicity run for several years now. She's quickly becoming a science celebrity, and it's not accidental. It's part of a concerted push by her and her employer–and the general scientific community–to recognize the achievements of non-white-male scientists. This is something we should help with, not hinder, in my view.
And, in fact, we are helping. This whole discussion is helping the world. We're all going to come out of this better than before. It will be a watershed moment when the Wikipedia community accepts that "first black woman to be part of the discovery of an element" is a claim to notability. If you listen, this is what the world is telling us–she is notable–but we're not listening. Not yet.
And if you don't agree with me, ask yourself: Why would the Washington Post publish that op-ed? Why would the Undark piece also get picked up by Fast Company, The Wire, and Slate (those publications are not owned by the same company)? Why would ACS interview Phelps for a C&E piece about the discovery of superheavy elements, and then tweet about? All of these new sources are written by reputable scientists–these aren't just some internet bloggers. The reason is that all of these people and publications think we're making a mistake, and they are saying so outright. We should start listening. Leviv ich 14:13, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
I consider six years in a low-level position to be early career, and would consider that to be the case for a white male as well, but regardless, she was not a prominent individual before this, which was more my point. I still think you are actively harming a living person to prove a political point, and I don't think our minds are going to change on this, but I'll give this example: how do you think most relatively obscure people would feel in ten years when all the controversy dies down that the thing they are most likely to be known for when someone Googles their name is that Wikipedia didn't think they deserved an article? I know I would be mad. The actions we take here have a real impact on living people. We are not playing some game where our actions can be restarted when it comes to them. We can always add someone later if after the storm calms it becomes clear they are notable. We cannot undo the potential harm of a controversy like this. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:21, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
And it remains case that the Washington Post should put their own house in order before they come criticising us. If they had some decent coverage of her then nobody would have suggested deleting the article in the first place.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:38, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
To paraphrase Hudson, "Express elevator to Arbcom...going down!" ——SerialNumber54129 08:05, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
<sigh> Everyone was looking for a fire extinguisher and instead someone came along with a barrel of petrol.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:24, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Saw this thread by looking to see if SN54129 had reported it anywhere after placing the CSD. I have raised the matter at ANI now. I wasn't aware that it could go direct to ArbCom and, in fact, am not too sure it can. - Sitush (talk) 08:31, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Me neither, but I know one thing: thousands of words have been expended in nuanced discussion, to no avail. So nuanced discussion is no longer on the table. Blunt tools will be needed to uphold community decisions (the AfD, etc) 'and community expectations (that an admin cannot unilaterally overturn such decisions). ——SerialNumber54129 08:37, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Remarkable that as little as three hours ago Rama seemed to suggest that opposition to the article was some sort of far right conspiracy. - Sitush (talk) 14:37, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Sitush, you'd be interested to know that at various times on my career on Wikipedia I've been: a fascist, a communist, an anti-neo-Nazi hardliner (I'll claim that one), an anti-semite, a liberal, a transphobe, a gender theorist, biased against an alt-right conspiracy theorist (you can thank Jimmy Wales for that one), and a Roman Catholic priest. I'm not sure how I handle all of the cognitive dissonance. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:42, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I get all that stuff, plus being a member of every caste imaginable. But an admin suggesting that those who sought deletion etc are (or are enabling) the far right seems pretty wild to me. - Sitush (talk) 14:53, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Notice of Arbritration request

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Clarice Phelps and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks, Iffy★Chat -- 09:48, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

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