User talk:Sitush/Archive 12

A Barnstar For You

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		You are very, very much appreciated. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:35, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Anna. I seem to be in demand at the moment - do you fancy reading some books? - Sitush (talk) 13:45, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

You are in demand. They demand that you stop reverting them. :) Reading some India history books? No thanks. I'd rather fall into lava. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:04, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Ha! BTW, Lava appears in Indian history. Or perhaps you knew that? - Sitush (talk) 23:33, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Lava?? Who would name their kid lava? I bet he got picked on in school. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:53, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

On the grounds that if a parent tells a kid to do something, they do the opposite, my suspicion is that he was seen as a cool dude. - Sitush (talk) 06:27, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah maybe he was cool. I could picture a cool kid named Lava, asbestos biker jacket, hair on fire, sure. I think the girls would like that. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:39, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)Pronunciation of Lava_(Ramayana) is different from Lava , he was the son of Lord Rama.--sarvajna (talk) 14:38, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Yup. Lava is pronounced more like the colloquial English Luv (which is also pretty cool!). But, pedantically speaking, he is a character from mythology, not history. --regentspark (comment) 15:15, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Journal of South Asian Studies

Your requested article is ready. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 01:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I've got it now. Your help is appreciated. - Sitush (talk) 23:31, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Your help for reverse

Someone with the name of Maria0333 changed this map [1] on January 31, 2013 and did it very badly see here [2]. First there was no need to change. second it was changed badly. I protested and requested for deletion this changed map's talk page. It is good news she has been blocked but what about the havoc she has created ? It is requested to reverse her edits or particularly related to this map and the original should be restored. I already manage W. Punjabi WIkipedia, WP Wiktionary and WP WIkiquote and dont have enough time to fight these stupid edit wars. She poses she is a linguist, would she like to introduce herself ? Sitush you took interest in this matter, please do something to reverse her damages too. --Khalid Mahmood (talk) 08:43, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Unfortunately, those maps are hosted on commons, so there's nothing we can do here. And Commons is, well, a nightmare, because they pretty much keep anything, even if it's factually incorrect; their only real concern is copyright. The best thing is just to make sure that you revert Maria03333's addition of her maps anywhere on projects you do work on; if there's some random, false map hanging out at Commons, it doesn't really do much harm as long as it isn't used on any project. Qwyrxian (talk) 08:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Q. You are spot on. Khalid Mahmood, I have no opinion regarding the original image that LanguageXpert/Maria0333 replaced - I've not even looked at it. However, the image that user inserted is being discussed at File_talk:Map_on_Dialects_Of_Punjabi_Language.jpg. You might want to bear in mind the comments made there when considering whether to reinstate the original version. - Sitush (talk) 10:31, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Re: Native name in the infobox

Namaste, Sitush. You have got at least one new message at the Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. Please continue the discussion there!
Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 16:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time.

Title change for Karishma Randhawa

Hi, can you please rename/move the page Karishma Randhawa to Karishma Randeva. I can help relink all the pages that link to it to the moved one. Incidentally, I am Karishma Randeva...:) — Preceding unsigned comment added by KarishmaRandeva (talk • contribs) 18:06, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, there would be no particular need to change any links elsewhere because they would automatically redirect to the new title. On the other hand, you might prefer to cause them to go directly to the new title. The problem is, a quick look at the sources in that article seems to confirm Randhawa as the more common name. I do not particularly want to pry but is there a specific reason why you want this change? You can always email me if you would rather reply privately but to do that you will have to at least temporarily enable the email facility for your account also. I can explain how to do this if that is the route you would prefer to take. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 18:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

SockPuppet Raised

Hi Sitush This is just to bring into your notice that your name has been referred for verification here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Sitush#02_April_2013 Kvn nair (talk) 19:07, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Popcorn - check, comfy chair - check, roll the cameras on "How to make an arse of yourself" -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:22, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I can't get to the chair for rolling on the floor laughing. - Sitush (talk) 19:40, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

And it's a Pnranjith sock account - you couldn't make it up! -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:52, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Comedy gold. Writ Keeper (t + c) 19:58, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

That kind of figured from their edits at Talk:Nair. Boing!, do you fancy taking a look at the latest bit of forum shopping here while I nip over to Japan. I think Irajeevwiki is getting extremely close to being a WP:CIR case. And who was the other person in this saga who threatened to file a SPI against me and Q? Was that Pnranjith also? - Sitush (talk) 20:04, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep, it was Pnranjith. And I think you might be right about Irajeevwiki - I'll keep an eye on things too. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:24, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Doncram's arts.

I accepted the ones I did because they complied with policy. That's part of what I do on AfC. I refer to policy when I review. I am sometimes lenient, but its uncommon. You'll find that I am very strict with what I accept, given my previous acceptance rate (of sorts) is of about 1.5%. If you don't agree with my acceptance reasons then garner concensus and let me know if the community doesn't want me to accept articles because they comply with simple guidelines for inclusion. I just don't see what all the fuss is about. I am just a guy reviewing AfC submissions. Cheers, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 02:21, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and unfortunately you are making a mess of it rather more often than is perhaps desirable. You've had some examples on your talk page, provided by other people. It is not just me that holds these concerns. - Sitush (talk) 02:25, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes what? In what way am I making a mess? Could you please state which articles weren't suitable for mainspace? There's a discussion I proposed at the AfC talk page, and I'd appreciate you chipped in there. The aforementioned concerns were addressed, however the AfC comments by Ryan Vesey were not expanded upon and I do wish a thorough analysis were undertaken, if possible in said space (AfC), where it belongs. Thank you for your time! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 21:56, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Meghwal page

This page needs a major revision. A lot of the sources listed do not seem to exist or I can't find anything about them on the net. Also, I don't see the need for mythological origin of a caste. It can't be verified and almost every caste in India is claiming origin to some ancient sage or god. TimesGerman (talk) 19:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Sources do not have to be available on the web. And you are wrong to remove the mythology stuff, provided that it was suitably sourced. That you think otherwise and feel it necessary to tell me that almost every caste in India claims a mythological descent merely confirms the point I made on your talk page, ie: you are practically a single-purpose account and it would do you no harm to wander around a bit more. - Sitush (talk) 20:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I only edit articles that I know something about. The article contains sources that have ISBN that produce no results. Since you yourself set pretty high standards of sources being verifiable and reliable on the Ramdasia & Chamar page, I am just following that standard. I am going to spend some time throughly editing this article. TimesGerman (talk) 21:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

The text linked to 1871 book needs to go. You deleted H.A Rose sources on the Ramdasia page because it was more than a 100 years old. TimesGerman (talk) 21:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I didn't, actually. I deleted because it was unreliable. Perhaps you might learn something if you researched something you don't know about? Wouldn't that be fun? - Sitush (talk) 21:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Then can you tell me why You think that H.A Rose is not reliable and this author is reliable. TimesGerman (talk) 21:37, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I didn't pass a comment on the other author & I've not even looked to see who that may be. I responded to your incorrect representation of what I had done. And, by the way, the Rose work is well short of being 100 years old. - Sitush (talk) 21:41, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

You reverted my edit and said that the source exists. it does not, try accessing the source and see if it exists. I will not edit this page for a few days. I will give you a few days to review the page and check the sources. Also, you still have not answered why you think H.A Rose is not reliable and why this British author and his book written more than 140 years ago is reliable? Also, the Koli page is a mess, it needs to be cleaned up. TimesGerman (talk) 21:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Sigh. I think we have another case of poor English comprehension here. I did not say that the "other source" was reliable; I said that Rose was unreliable and that I hadn't even looked to see what the other source was that you were referring to. To be honest, I'd rather you didn't edit that page, period, nor any other caste-related article until you have gained some experience in less controversial areas. You are hitting problems wherever you turn on the caste stuff, and not just with me. I can't stop you from editing the things but if your disruptive editing continues then someone might, perhaps by enforcing WP:GS/Caste. - Sitush (talk) 21:59, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Actually, being born and raised in USA, I have much better English comprehension than you. You just admitted of reverting my edits without even reading the reasons of edits. Don't try to act you are more intelligent than everyone else. I am finding that you get very combative and defensive when someone challenges your edits, especially when it comes to caste based pages. Wp:caste may have to be enforced in you. Over the next couple of days, I am going to start discussions on the Meghwal Talk page, please join and start contributing by at least taking to read the description of the edits. Also, here is your own action of reverting something that you think is not a reliable source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:147.60.1.231&diff=prev&oldid=548727652. TimesGerman (talk) 01:53, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea where you were born but your comprehension of plain English is not great if your comments here and elsewhere are taken at face value. And still you show it: I have not admitted to reverting without reading your reasons but rather I reverted because they are invalid. I addressed their invalidity and I am pleased that you are now prepared to discuss your proposed changes on Talk:Meghwal. - Sitush (talk) 04:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Dissapointed

Hi Sitush, I am extremly disapointed at some of your comments about me here. You have known me for some time, and you know some of the battles I have had to get WP:NPOV on Jatt, Tarkhan, Ramgarhia, and many other articles. For you to say I am selectively quoting hurts me deeply, because I thought you new be by now. I'm hotheaded, sometimes forceful, but I never selectively quote. I'll go and sulk in a corner now thanks SH 16:36, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Please don't sulk ;) Replied by email: there was an intended method to my perceived madness. - Sitush (talk) 15:27, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Ezhava#position in society

The text isn't accurately paraphrased imo, we've already discussed it without result on the article talk page, I would like you to have another look at it, not in a hurry though, it imo doesn't adequately represent the writer's views. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 08:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

OK. What alternative would you suggest? - Sitush (talk) 17:15, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

If you wish to write "Ezhava's practise untouchability in the contemporary context", you need to back it up with a more straight forward source, the present one doesn't say so. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 16:51, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

How do you know what the source says? You were requesting quotations until recently - do you now have a copy of the source? Nor does the article say that Ezhavas practise untouchability in the contemporary context: you are jumping to your own conclusions there. - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Actually, YK has a point. Our article says at the time of writing, the Ezhavas continued to practise some aspects of the traditional system of untouchability in relation to the very low-ranking Pulayar and Paraiyar communities. I can't find any evidence of that in the book. What Osella says is that Izhavas don't accept intermarriage with lower untouchable castes and that someone who does marry into a lower caste will have to leave the community. Not sure if that is the same thing as practicing untouchability itself. I can't find anything in the book that says an Izhava won't work with a Pulayar or Paraiyar. --regentspark (comment) 17:42, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Sitush, AGF --sarvajna (talk) 18:34, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I was using untouchability in the broad sense of the term - the social practice of discriminating against the "lowest" castes. YK was arguing that this doesn't go on because there are laws against caste discrimination, which is patent nonsense: the existence of a law concerning something does not mean something does or doesn't happen. If it did then there would be no need for many branches of the legal system.

The Osellas specifically highlight that some Ezhavas will work alongside Pulayars etc - the use of the word "some" is significant - and they specifically note that the Pulayars are still at the bottom of the heap despite anti-discriminatory legislation. As I said on the talk page thread (which is where this thread should be), I'll re-read the entire chapter when I've worked through the rest of the book. I'm finding it difficult to dissect which aspects of it relate merely to the one village that they studied and which are more general observations.

Ratnakar, I haven't got a clue what you are on about. - Sitush (talk) 18:39, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

• @Sitush: "Untouchability" is a specific banned practice, not a broad term, it means you don't touch me, you don't let my shadow fall on you, you don't allow me to to use public utilities and so on. Discrimination is a very general and vague term, a matter of perception, we have news paper reports that allege that "Thiyyas feel discriminated against by Ezhavas", so if you wish to include "discrimination", citing good sources, I would have no trouble. Regarding the present version of the section, it is unreadable to me, additionally it mixes history with the present, so considering my topic ban I leave it alone. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:40, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

sarvajna, WP:AAGF. Martijn Hoekstra (talk)

It's not clear. Elsewhere in the book, the authors say that some Izhavas stand with the Nayars and other "upper" castes against the "real" untouchables (the Pulayas) while others stand with the ex-untouchables (Osella's term, not mine) with an anti caste Hindu perspective (page 256) . All this seems to be the usual upper and lower caste thing, not the practice of untouchability. --regentspark (comment) 20:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. I think that the biggest issue here was (I've removed it for now) a poor choice of words: "caste discrimination" or similar would have been better than "some aspects of untouchability". I know what I meant but clearly other people do not. - Sitush (talk) 20:45, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Blimey, I've never seen that one before. Anyone offering to raise it to AAAGF? Or to write an essay titled WP:TMA (Too Many Acronyms). <g> - Sitush (talk) 18:51, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Did you mean WP:AAAGF? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 18:55, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Or WP:WTF? OMG! TMD TLA. ARG!? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 18:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Ha! It seems that there can be hours of fun spent noodling deep inside the hull of the Good Ship Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 19:01, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I certainly hope that you at least know about WP:SPIDERMAN (or one of the more usefull shortcuts WP:Oh I say, what are you doing? Come down from there at once! Really, you're making a frightful exhibition of yourself. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 19:08, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I've read that one several times in the last couple of years but it is more or less impossible for me to work out what the heck it is intending to say. It would probably be easier if the analogy involving spiderman, Reichstag etc were not present. I think it is basically wrt battlegrounds etc and, more specifically, choosing your battles carefully but embarrassment has never really been a feature of my character: if I am wrong then I kick myself hard and move on - no point in fretting about it or worrying about what others think of me. On the odd occasion I've seen it used at ANI, for example, my eyes just glaze over and I move swiftly on. Which is never a bad thing to do at ANI anyway. - Sitush (talk) 19:19, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

ah, no! It's about overreacting to disputes. Wikipedia might be the most important online encyclopedia here is, but that doesn't mean that we should constantly fighting to the death about what you think is right. Especially when the dispute is about something like the background color of a template, the layout of the main page of a wikiproject, or something equally lame. If you ever start an ANI thread about one of those, or and RFC, or dispute resolution, you are climbing the reichtag dressed as spiderman. You may get attention for your issue, but you look like a complete idiot, and at the end of the day you're standing on top of the Reichstag in your pyjamas. Well, maybe not in your pyjamas. Or on top of the Reichstag. And it is not actually illegal in the wikicontext. And you don't have to go to germany, or the german wikipedia. but other than that it is exactly the same. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 22:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I understand that, I think. I am not sure that I've ever done something of this type other than the general idea of trying to insist on what is right. Given the sphere where I spend most of my time here, that insistence is pretty much a standard response to, well, just about anything. The entire subject area needs more clued-up contributors and more admin eyes and if it were necessary to make a fool of myself to achieve that then, yes, I'd do it. Perhaps that makes me Machiavellian? - Sitush (talk) 00:38, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't applying it to you, if that is how I came across. Just pointing at the funny stuff to be found on Wikipedia. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

It didn't come across that you were applying it to me. However, being aware that I cannot possibly be as perfect as I sometimes blithely assume, I occasionally muse about my actual (many) failings and aspects of my character that are perceived to be failings by others. There is a long list of both! - Sitush (talk) 15:24, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Mers/Maher

Why do you people keep changing my article? I have messaged after requested to do so. I am a Maher and most of my knowledge comes from that. Look on Maheronline, most mahers come from gujarat the mahers of rajasthan are a very small proportion. Paragraphing and things like that can be changed but most the true information about mahers is in my article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hindoostani (talk • contribs) 21:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

The principle reason is our requirement for verifiability. Like it or not, Wikipedia doesn't permit statements based solely on personal knowledge but rather requires that those statements are verifiable using reliable sources. Although there are some exceptions, community websites such as maheronline are not usually considered to be reliable because they are not independent of the subject. I did respond to your query at Talk:Mers and it would be best to continue this discussion there. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 21:12, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Frustrated

Yes, I am and hence the notice at the top of my page. Can I let go by reducing my watchlist etc? Probably not because I feel strongly that stuff that is not policy-compliant, and often complete POV crap even in the real world, should not be allowed to exist or to be inserted in the first place. But dealing with the fall-out is getting me down. I sometimes wonder why we do not just let everyone say what the heck they want and allow permanent warring. At least then I'd be able to walk away safe in the knowledge that Wikipedia really is a waste of computing space, as many who see me as the "opposition" appear to believe. Those people are mostly SPAs, of course.

I'll go do some reading for my own pleasure instead of reading stuff just to suit the acceptance or denial of stuff presented by others. I will be back, perhaps in as little as a few days, but right now I need a break from the frustration. - Sitush (talk) 00:59, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Stare at the bunny and sip herbal tea

The "soft bunny" of happiness and tranquility.

...and you will feel much better. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Origin of word Caste.

Thank you for informing me about the change you had done to revert my edit. Perhaps the summary of my edit was not very clear. I do not mean that the Casts in India are based on race. All Indians are considered a single race popularly and the census in India is not race based either. The point which the article on Risley was not sufficiently clarifying is the origin of word caste which lead to Jati being confused as race in academic circles or was an attempt to introduce racial difference theories in Indian discourse which was unheard of in India before that. The etymology of the word "caste" makes my point clear. The English word "caste" derives from the Spanish and Portuguese casta, which the Oxford English Dictionary quotes John Minsheu's Spanish dictionary (1599) to mean, "race, lineage, or breed.". Origin: 1545–55; < Portuguese casta race, breed, noun use of casta, feminine of casto < Latin castus pure, chaste.

Hope this clarifies the issue. I will modify the article to include the etymology question to make the summary clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indoscope (talk • contribs) 05:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

The caste system was made by Aryas.and It was the priest class (now known as brahman in india) who made this system.cast and race are totally diffrent. but many people consider races as casts.for example, JATTS.'jatt' is a race, not a caste.but people usually mentions word 'jatt' as a caste.caste was based on professions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.205.54.12 (talk) 14:11, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

This is not something that I am in the mood to discuss at present. Suffice to say, Indoscope is introducing WP:OR to a Good Article, regardless of their (correct) exposition of the etymology of the word "caste". I have tried previously to explain on their talk page that inclusion of this material there is an oversimplification of a contentious issue and is unnecessary given what the sources at Risley actually say. They have done a similar thing at Caste system in India and were reverted by someone else there. Right now, I can't be bothered getting involved in yet another squabble even though I know this is a poor edit. - Sitush (talk) 15:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Human rights abuses in Kashmir

I'm about to make myself very unpopular with you, I realise ... but Human rights abuses in Kashmir and the ongoing disagreement on its talk page need the eye of someone who knows a lot more about the local history (and how widely we usually interpret "human rights abuses") than I do. Rather than being adminny or even talking about behavior, I decided to edit the article myself to make it more coherent, but I can't take it much further because I don't know the obviously very fraught field. If you want to punt the issue to a noticeboard, I think that would in itself be a help; if on the other hand you think I've in my ignorance left the article even more mucked up, I'll readily accept that. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:01, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

It was a complete mess and I doubt that you could make it worse! It is exactly the type of article that hits the Indo-Pakistani religious nationalism spot and is of course covered by Arbcom sanctions. Alas, my knowledge of the post-medieval regional history etc is not detailed and there are (or at least were) some contributors to that article whom I am probably better off avoiding - specifically, the lethal combination of Mrt3366 and Darkness Shines. (Both of those can be excellent editors but they go at the Indo-Pak stuff like hammer and tongs). I'll have a think about it but can't make any promises, and I've no idea what noticeboard would be most appropriate although WP:NPOVN seems the most obvious. - Sitush (talk) 17:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, I apologise; thanks for trying :-( Yngvadottir (talk) 04:08, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Satyawadi Raja Harishchandra

Hello! Not your forte but hey.. this is like ancient and you probably have means to find out the answer. Hence asking you.
This subject film's advertisement introduced the male lead actor Hormusji Tantra as "the 'Irving' of the Indian stage". Any idea who this Irving could be? Considering the 1917's release and the film production company's association with American/British films, i am thinking he must be some American/British actor who was famous then. I couldn't find any possible match on Wikipedia. And chances are also that he isn't notable to be here or anywhere in writing. But still thought of giving a try. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:04, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Henry Irving is the man. - Sitush (talk) 05:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Wuupss! I asked this question to you so you could suggest a British guy who would fit the bill. And you did it that way. As i had my doubts of he possibly being American, i also asked MichaelQSchmidt and he gives me Irving Thalberg, an American actor.
I will invite the party here. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I think he should be Henry Irving, who was dead in 1905 and had left a huge work behind him as compared to Thalberg who was just 18 and had barely started. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:43, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It is unlikely to be Thalberg, who was a young man when the movie was released. Plus, it seems odd to refer to someone by their first name in this context. Michael may think differently and, of course, has roughly 99.999999% more knowledge of cinema than me. - Sitush (talk) 05:45, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Unless we find a citation connecting Hormusji Tantra to some specific Irving (first name or last), my own thought was to consider an Irving whose works would have international influence in a birthing Indian film industry. Being compared to a lesser known British stage actor is possible as well. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 05:49, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Lesser known? In 1917? Henry Irving was a titan of the stage, India was ruled by the Brits. I agree that this may be awkward without a reliable source as it would basically be WP:OR but I think the issue could be considered in a footnote if nothing else. - Sitush (talk) 05:54, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Actually, assuming that our Thalberg article is ok, there is no way that the poster refers to him. He was just starting out as an office boy in 1917/18. He'd be lucky if the people in the next street knew who he was, so to speak. - Sitush (talk) 05:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

After further research, I would agree that my initial thought was incorrect, and agree it more likely to be Sir Henry Irving, specially considering the stronger British influence in India at that time. But this remains supposition unless we find a citation making the connection. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 06:16, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

So we finally settle on Henry Irving. But of course we can't add that to the article without a ref and i doubt that would be available. Or can we in some wise way without attracting much trouble? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 06:27, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I think that your standards regarding application of policy are tougher than mine, Michael. And that is saying something! Not saying that you are wrong to apply in this way but I am pretty sure that this is capable of being noted along the lines of "This probably refers to Henry Irving" per WP:IAR. - Sitush (talk) 06:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Just say it and tag it with a cn in the hope that someone will add a reference. Unlikely to be challenged. --regentspark (comment) 09:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

In that case don't do it now. The article is a DYK nom and they have strict no cn-tags policy. Nothing stops us from spoiling the article after its once displayed on main page. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:57, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

In the meanwhile, we can always ask on the article's talk page that editors share our search for the Irving connection, without falling afoul of DYK issues. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 07:15, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Great. This is one of the rare occasions on my talk page where an agreement regarding what to do appears to have been attained. I should print off this section and frame it! - Sitush (talk) 13:52, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Michael, i have pasted this discussion on the article's talk page for future refs and for other editor's notice. Sitush, do that. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 08:18, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I think I have a lead on a reference. Will look it up sometime this morning. --regentspark (comment) 13:42, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I did find several references but the outcome is best described as murky because they call Kavasji Khatau the Irving of the Indian stage (not Hormusji Tantra as in the poster). The Irving is definitely Henry Irving (Gupt, Somanatha, "The Parsi Theatre: Its origins and development", translated by Kathryn Hansen, Seagull Books, Calcutta 2005, page 164) and several papers by Kathyrn Hansen (who uses Gupt, the untranslated version, as her source). The poster is at odds with published work. I've emailed a query to Kathryn Hansen, hopefully we'll hear from her soon. --regentspark (comment) 15:50, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Modi

Just letting you know that I've unwatched the article, as I find Yogesh's nonsense games to be infuriating. Rarely have I met a more ridiculous POV warrior - and I have interacted with quite a few. It looks to me as if CorrectKnowledge is turning the article away from the propaganda piece it was four days ago, so I don't need to suffer his BS. If there are any problems in maintaining the article neutral in the future feel free to let me know. I am pretty sure that any admin who sees his behavior on the talkpage will deal out an immediate topicban since the POV pushing is so blatant. Someone needs to do something about the articles on the Tehelka tapes and on BJP and RSS - but I am not the one. Life is too short.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:56, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Believe it or not, Yogesh is not as awkward a contributor as he once was. But, yes, this particular instance harks back to the bad old days of tendentious filibustering and pro-Hindutva POV etc. He really needs to find the middle ground at Narendra Modi, otherwise there will be nothing but a stub. I am deliberately limiting my involvement because the one admin who is involved simply does not seem to get it yet, probably because of an understandable failure to appreciate what has really been going on: there is a lot of contributor history involved and we cannot expect people to wade through it all. Sooner or later, it will end up at a drama board and then the eyes of people more familiar with the antics of Yogesh and Ratnakar Kulkarni will be drawn to the issues. RK, of course, is also often a decent contributor: the pair just have a block of some sort when it comes to BJP/RSS/Hindu nationalism/anti-colonialism etc - very unfortunate, but there you go.

I am about to do some work on a subject that has nothing to do with South Asia - it will be a relief. - Sitush (talk) 09:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Joyson

Hi, I've found his IP address [3]. He removed the messages in January to him.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:21, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Remark I'd like to share with you

"Discussion of the digital currency known as Bitcoin... Those who are citical of Bitcoin tend not to understand the currency very well and, as a consequence, their criticisms tend to be superficial, misguided, or just plain wrong."[4]

Replace Bitcoin with anything appropriate, good generic statement. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that can be applied generally. For example, I know practically everything there is to know about a past employer due to my "privileged" postion within that company. They are, nonetheless, very deserving of the criticism that I and umpteen others heap upon them and which has resulted in various court rulings. "Tend not to" is the writer's get-out clause, of course! - Sitush (talk) 06:09, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

We are two people with two perspectives. Nothing out of the ordinary. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 09:27, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Nasrani

Hi Sitush,

I guess this is your cup of tea. Please do the needful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nasrani

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasrani_(disambiguation)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasrani

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians

Thanks.. PalakkappillyAchayan 06:28, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

You will have to be more specific, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 18:32, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

No anti-British, anti-colonial point of view

	Absolute neutrality
	Your contributions to Racism in British India and Talk:Racism in British India are welcome. I fully agree with you that there should not be an "anti-British, anti-colonial" approach to such an article. I admire you for your efforts to keep articles neutral. Susesisa (talk) 06:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Ongoing projects

They were not having the references, so i added the references now. i hope everyone will agree now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Preethan87 (talk • contribs) 19:44, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Please discuss at Talk:Thoothukudi. You were reverted by myself and another person, and references were only a part of the rationale for reverting. - Sitush (talk) 19:48, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Bazaars in Karachi

I've tagged this new article and left a note on the talk page, but would prefer someone that is a bit more worldly than this North Carolina hick to take a look. Ping me if you think it needs more attention. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 17:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

View sought

Considering your views there,[5] your views are sought here.[6] This may be considered canvassing, so perhaps you may share your views here or on my talk page. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 03:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Biased POV edits

Hi Sitush. I have been referred to you by an editor that I trust, who identified you as a key editor on India. There is an editor going round adding to a number of articles (see Karachi) a statement about "Hindus migrating out of Pakistan, and Muslims fleeing pogroms and genocide in India (pogrom often spellt by this editor as pogram). In the past few days, another editor and I have deleted the references to pograms but he reverts the edits. I have no problem with the use of strong terms to refer to what happened in 1947, but cannot agree with the distorted view that people left Pakistan peacefully, while others fled India to escape massacres. A quick glance at a number of articles - ethnic cleansing; genocides in history, pogram, etc. do not list the 1947 population exchange that followed the partition as a pogrom or genocide. Other then 1947 per se, these articles actually reveal that a number of massacres have been carried by Pakistan(is), and not a single case of massacres against them.

• The user is "Delljvc" here are some of the edits in question
• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Karachi&diff=550631382&oldid=550622675
• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Karachi&diff=551065254&oldid=551052217
• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Karachi&diff=next&oldid=551065254

Best regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 20:22, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I've given the editor a warning. In the future, actually, this is important for you (or others) to do. Just leaving edit summaries isn't enough--tell the editor directly what they've done wrong or why their edits aren't good. Then, if the problem persists and the user refuses to discuss the matter, administrative action can be taken. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Sitush/ Qwyrxian. Will in future do so. Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 10:18, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposal for updating WP:INDICSCRIPT

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics#Request to clarify WP:INDICSCRIPT.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Bejnar (talk) 23:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Doubt

Are proofs like this [7] adequate enough to include the line that shiv nadar is actually a nadar? You removed that line by stating the line is not in the ref. The ref above claims he comes frm the nadan subsect and this ref is in that para. I dont understand. And how are you?? :)Mayan302 (talk) 16:40, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not too bad, thanks. If a person is living then they have to self-identify. I can only see the link that you give in "snippet view", so it is not really something that I can pass comment on. Have you seen User:Sitush/Common#Castelists? There have been various discussions since I summarised things there but nothing has actually changed.

Out of interest, is Shiv Nadar's alleged caste affiliation actually a cause of his success in business or of his notability generally? If not, then it is arguably irrelevant anyway. - Sitush (talk) 16:53, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

No actually I was going to post a line after that para but a edit conflict occured. The author seems to know a great deal about Nadar businessmen( for instance, he knows very specific details like shiv nadar's 'nadan' background. i think he must have met them personally). So isnt that a good enough proof. The book contains details about many nadar businessmen. That's what I meant to say.Mayan302 (talk) 17:02, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

No, it is not sufficient verification. You cannot assume the source of the author's knowledge etc. Now, if the author added a footnote saying "I was told this by Shiv Nadar in an interview with him on dd-mmm-yyyy" then things might be different. - Sitush (talk) 17:08, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Ok then. I ll check this book out and return. Why do you get sick very often? Just curious. You dont have to tell me if it's personal.Mayan302 (talk) 17:16, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I was just born this way. My mum had rubella when she was pregnant with me and it has left me with a fair number of chronic health issues. She was not offered immunisation because her medical notes said that she had already contracted the disease as a child and therefore should have had the necessary antibodies already - seems like there may have been a screw-up with the notes. She blames herself but should not.

Plus, of course, I am now the wrong side of 50 and things start to generally wear out! - Sitush (talk) 17:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

You are 50 yrs old? Never heard of this disease b4. But it's curable right? You still have it after all these years? Perhaps you should sue the hospital or something. If it's a screw up, that is.Mayan302 (talk) 04:24, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

It is also known as German Measles) - take a look at the rubella article, which seems pretty good based on my own knowledge. It is a worldwide problem but perhaps less prevalent wherever it is that you live. The disease is short-lived but in pregnant women it can affect the unborn child in ways that are incurable, as happened in my case, Lots of mistakes happen in medical notes and if we went around suing people for all of them then it would be a sad world. Anyway, this all happened a long time ago when people simply didn't do that sort of thing, or at least not in the UK. Best just to make the best of a bad situation, and I rather think that I've done quite well in that regard. - Sitush (talk) 05:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Sick o not you re doing one helluva job.Thought you should know.But you seem a little grumpier than before. Hope your health gets better soon.TC... Mayan302 (talk) 17:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Your comments about my contributions are appreciated - very kind of you to say so, thanks. "Grumpy" should be my username, as I fear that I am more often Grumpy than Happy when using Wikipedia. Some of it is down to the meds, some of it is just me. Perhaps you have been fortunate in your past dealings with me! Still, that's enough about Snow White: heigh-ho, off to work we go, eh? - Sitush (talk) 23:11, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

:) Mayan302 (talk) 18:40, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Sanjay Singh

Hi.. I thought Sanjay Singh was not written good, so I cleaned it up. Can you point out roughly which parts of my edit made the article poor? Because to me, in its present form it looks poor, so it definitely need cleaning up. you can reply later if you wish, when you are out of frustration .. :) --Vigyani (talk) 03:09, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I'll try to produce a list of some of the issues later today. Probably some good changes of phrasing etc were removed along with the relatively poor stuff. Don't beat yourself up about it: I realise that you meant well. - Sitush (talk) 05:35, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

No, I am not worried or feeling bad etc. I usually dont have any emotion connected with my edits. I was asking as a port of learning process. If I have made an error, I don't want to repeat on other articles. --Vigyani (talk) 15:35, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

An anon is trying to add non sense to nadar article

This is anon is tryin to add pov statements(like 'nadars are the richest community in the world) to the article from yesterday. I ve reverted his edits thrice.Is that ok? I mean I am not supposed to revert edits more than twice right?Mayan302 (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Three times in a 24 hour period is the usual limit. However, you should also make attempts to address the issues with the contributor and I would be wary of waiting until just outside a 24-hour spell and then reverting for a fourth time. Regardless, in this particular case I will keep an eye on things & so there will be no need for you to overstep the mark. Once warnings etc have been escalated, and assuming that the anon remains unresponsive, then it becomes the concern of an admin either by direct intervention or via a report at the noticeboard. - Sitush (talk) 19:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Got it. Ok..Mayan302 (talk) 07:28, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Self-revert

I think you ought to check explanation on the talk page and self-revert if you are convinced.[8] Yogesh Khandke (talk) 21:00, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Arbitrary heading - Nadar

I really dont understand , why you have deleted my contribution in the page List of Nadars. If you have any problem go through the articles which are being linked for an proof, please stop vandalising the page. If any further un-sourced and grude toward various authors would be done, you would be blocked. Please read the articles which have been provided..and please be a bit cooperative. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr n Mrs (talk • contribs) 16:19, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't fully understand what you are saying but when you blank a page then you can expect a reaction. Similarly, when you replace a valid maintenance template with a "protection" template, and the article is not in fact protected, you can expect to be reverted. Please take a look at User:Sitush/Common#Castelists. - Sitush (talk) 18:02, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Helping hand

Hi Sitush,

I noticed you had a bit of a trolling problem from an IP, so I did the decent thing as a fellow Wikipedian and reverted their actions. Hope you don't mind me doing that on your behalf. Regards, Wesley♦^Mouse 17:14, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and no problem. They are evading a block and have been doing so for some time now. - Sitush (talk) 17:59, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

hi sitush

hey can you do something for me please check the sources in second paragraph of topic beliefs of article Deobandi.here.please remove poor sources and material associated with that sources.please.

actually these sources are from some private sites and blogs.i tried to remove it but reverted by some user.you seams to be an expert related to sources.Dil e Muslim talk 18:26, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

No, sorry. I am dealing with enough troublesome articles without getting involved in this. You need to discuss such things on article talk pages or by raising the specific sources in context at WP:RSN. - Sitush (talk) 18:33, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

hey

hey can you gramatically correct the sentence "The Pakistan came into being by very massive support of the Barelvi Scholars".Dil e Muslim talk 07:14, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes. But since it does not reflect what the source (Jaffrelot) says, I won't. - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Lohara dynasty

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Talk:Lohara dynasty#Concluded in Origin section.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Bejnar (talk) 09:11, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

To answer your question...

...no, I don't mind the pedantry :) Actually, I greatly appreciate the help. I'm wanting the article to be something special, like it's sister article, and I know I can't do it alone, nor do I want to. I'm actually pretty good at doing research, digging up sources and understanding the big picture, but I still have a ways to go on learning all the finishing touches and proper prose. Most of my edits over the last 7 years have been minor expansions and gnoming. Plus, never having gone to college, I never had to learn how to properly write. I do lots of copy work for ecommerce purposes, but that has mainly served to teach me the wrong ways to do it here. Anyway, I appreciate the help, and the boldness. If I have a complaint or question, I will say, so don't worry about hurting my feelings. Thanks again. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:06, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

• The front grill has was said to look like "an Oldsmobile sucking on a lemon." by critics. was just too good to pass up, I had to include that. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:17, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
• I put it up for GA and Malleus is reviewing. Thanks again for helping me clean it up. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:47, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
  • No problem. I was going to tinker further but it is best not to do so when it is under review. In any case, I'm sure Malleus will make a better fist of it than I would. - Sitush (talk) 16:32, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

    Please feel free to join in with the review Sitush, or to tinker as much as you like with the article. I think we all trust each other, and besides, you're much taller than I am, therefore more authorative. Malleus Fatuorum 16:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

It passed GA. Thanks again for your help cleaning it up Sitush. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:24, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

• Great stuff. And apologies to Malleus for (yet again) missing a message because THERE WAS NO ORANGE BAR. Fed up of this already. - Sitush (talk) 14:28, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Protection

You've been getting a lot of disruption here from that blocked user using dynamic IPs, so I've semi-protected this page for a short while to try to get over to them how they're wasting their time - let me know if you want it unprotected (or protected for longer). -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:22, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Good, thank you. IPs will just have to engage with me on article talk pages, which is almost always where they should be doing so in any event. Feel free to increase the duration if the evader returns. - Sitush (talk) 16:31, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, will do. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:43, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I've re-protected for three days this time; let me know if you'd like it for longer than that. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:38, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and sorry for the delay in responding - I miss that orange notice. Let's see what happens in three days' time, although I feel it is fairly predictable. - Sitush (talk) 17:53, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath. As an aside, I made a script to restore the orange bar; it's at User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/orangeBar.js. It's cookie-based at the moment (Echo broke the API calls I'd use to get around cookies), so if you want to use it, be sure that cookies are enabled in your browser. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:24, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)How would I implement that, Writ Keeper--i.e., where do I copy and paste it, or is there something else I have to do? Qwyrxian (talk) 14:15, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

@Qwyrxian: Damn, sorry for missing this, Qwyrxian. Dunno if you figured it out or are still interested, but if you are: copy this line of code:

importScript("User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/orangeBar.js");

...into your common.js page.

@Sitush: I've extended the protection indefinitely, as he shows no signs of slowing down. Let me, or any other admin, know if/when you ever would like the protection lifted, or if you'd prefer a fixed duration. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:37, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, Writ Keeper. I'll wait and see if the promised changes this week make things easier, and, if not, use your work around. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:11, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Yep, that's a good idea; I have faith that the devs understand the problem now and will address it, and the fewer things that have to be solved by a user script, the better. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 23:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Gurjars are imperial martial race.

The statement was a wrong and derogatory one, which represented the facts which don't exist. The Gurjars have always been land lords / land owners in north and north western part of India. Why don't you present any example in support of the statement you reinstated.

D mavi (talk) 11:42, 6 May 2013 (UTC)D maviD mavi (talk) 11:42, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

I am giving explaination every time i'm doing an edit. It's my responsibility that no false information is conveyed on this platform. I've even cited the verifiable proof in my latest edit. Also i'm observing that it's you who is insisting on waging a edit war, without explaining what verifiable source proves your revision of edits made by me. Moreover the sentence that I edited had no citations to support it.

I suggest you to cite a source in case you decide to undo my edit, in support of claim made by that sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by D mavi (talk • contribs) 11:58, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) D mavi, I've looked over your contributions, and you've not cited any reliable sources to support your suggested changes. gujaratindia.com, while a good source of information for things like current politics in Gujarat, or possibly for some geography or tourist sites, is not a reliable source for historical information. You can review our reliable source guidelines at WP:RS, but the short idea is that the source must have a history of high quality editorial fact checking. Government sites can meet this, but only for the types of information over which they have direct control--for example, a government site would be reliable information for the current office holders, for government services, and even for current population statistics. But for academic issues, including history, science, and the like, they won't be reliable. As such, I'm going to revert your edits on that page. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:47, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Oops, sorry to both. I missed these messages. - Sitush (talk) 12:52, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

On the contrary the statement that you are trying to protect has no citation at all to support it. So either please put forth any supporting RS or let it be like this.

D mavi (talk) 13:02, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

It is sourced. I suggest that you revert this edit before you find yourself blocked for a 3RR violation. - Sitush (talk) 13:09, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Request

Hi. Can you kindly review P. Kalyanasundaram, a BLP, for notability and other aspects? Articles created on the subject earlier were either deleted or disucssed in length for notability.e.g.User:4letheia/Palam Kalyanasundaram. Thank you for your support. Rayabhari (talk) 13:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Seems notable to me. Some of the phrasing could do with a polish but I can't see any major problems. I wonder if there are any references to him in academic journals - there are quite a few that are dedicated to librarianship. If I get the chance then I'll see what JSTOR holds. - Sitush (talk) 13:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Page on Hemu

Several changes have been made on the page once again which are wrong. For example Hemu's birth caste is changed to Bania Vaishya from Brahmin. I had put up a photograph of Hemu's father Rai Puran Das on the page, who was a Brahmin Priest. Picture is removed now without assigning any reason. All his relatives were from priestely families. These facts were there from Dec. 2008, when I prepared the page, but in between some people change his caste from Brahmin to Bania Vaishya, just because Hemu acted as a businessman. Also name of the village where Hemu was born: 'Devti Macchri' is removed. I would advise to put the facts as they were on 22nd Sept. 2012 on the page, which were finalised by you. Sudhirkbhargava (talk) 16:37, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

The 115.* IP has been making some poor edits generally and, I think, may also have been contributing as an IP in the 220.* range. However, I did check the Bania reference at the time when they added it and found no problem there. I'm not much good with pictures (they do not interest me) but I think that you need to raise your concerns at the article talk page. For example, if your source for the Brahmin connection is ok then we will need to show both opinions. - Sitush (talk) 13:41, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Right from beginning I have been discussing contents on talk page. However, no one ever gave a reference to confirm that he was born in a Baniya Vaishya family. He was written a Vaishya or Bania by virtue of his getting in to business. So historians are correct to mention that he was a businessman or a Baniya. But mentioning that he was born in a Baniya family is utterly wrong. Hem Chandra (Hemu) was born to a priest, a Brahmin. I am putting these facts on talk page and will wait for some days before changing the matter. The coronation day is mentioned wrong. Instead of 7th Nov. 1556, it should be 7th Oct. 1556, which I am correcting.Sudhirkbhargava (talk) 04:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Notifications box replacement prototypes released

Hey Sitush; Kaldari has finished scripting a set of potential replacements available to test and give feedback on. Please go to this thread for more detail on how to enable them. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at A.amitkumar's talk page.
Message added 17:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Mangat clan

I tried reverting back, but as i am unable to verify the cohesion of that article i had added all the tags. Let them clear it up the article was an empty page one liner before the edits. - that one line doesn't need a separate page. may be it should be elected for deletion too.... one more TAG :-) Amit (talk) 17:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

No. Caste articles are full of puffery. We do not need more of the same and adding as many maintenance tags as you did is, as I said on your talk, pointless. No-one will fix that lot any time soon. I speak from experience, alas ;) - Sitush (talk) 17:58, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Agreed Amit (talk) 18:05, 7 May 2013 (UTC)Amit

• Rock on, Sitush. Drmies (talk) 18:17, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

• Ha! Well, I did try a search when I first got involved with that article but could find little of relevance. As so often, searches are made awkward by transliterations and because the clan name is also used as what we in the west would call a surname, meaning that it pops up in completely unrelated circumstances. I'll take another pass through at some point in the next few months but it is quite likely that Amit's AfD option will come to pass. I doubt it could even survive as a "surname" article - akin to Sharma - because there seem to be no real sources for that either. IIRC, it is also a place in South America or, at least, somewhere outside the UK (!) - Sitush (talk) 18:24, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar for you

		The Original Barnstar
		For you recent contribution to the page of Narendra Modi, I know we will oppose eatch other on inclusion/exclusion of some content but that would not stop me from appreciating you hard work.sarvajna (talk) 12:56, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I am generally trying to avoid getting involved in detailed content-related issues at the moment - just quibbling over the odd word here and there, as you already know. In fact, I may not get involved in the big stuff again on that article: sorting out the sources will take me some time but some mug has to do it. Appreciate your responses to my queries on the talk page. - Sitush (talk) 13:14, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Modi

Here I think it should be He has been a member of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) since childhood not since adolescence. Because people join RSS very early in childhood and are called "Bal Swayamsevaks" (Kid or Child Swayamsevak) -sarvajna (talk) 13:09, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Which ever the sources say, I'm not fussed. The original sentence was mixing up the two terms and in my opinion they could be construed as different phases of life. - Sitush (talk) 13:16, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Your recent removal of "Controversies" section in Article "Jayalalithaa".

Hi,

We have a discussion at the Talk Page of Jayalalithaa regarding the missing section on "Controversies", please take part. Pearll's Sun^TALK 16:45, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Narendra Modi

Sitush, I have to ask you to stop revert-warring on the Narendra Modi biography page. Your editing style has been aggressive off late. As Srikanth mentioned on the talk page, tagging articles with {{NPOV}} should be done as a matter of last resort. There are no major outstanding issues with the page. Yes, there is scope for improvement, however, that can only be done if you are willing to discuss on the talk page rather than bullying other editors with impertinent messages on their talk page. Thanks. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 18:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

It is not just me, though, is it? Have you actually read that talk page? Have you read WP:BLPN? You are pandering, wittingly or unwittingly, and yet I've even had a barnstar relating to that article from someone whom often does not see eye-to-eye with me. It does seem that you know very little about this. - Sitush (talk) 19:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I have been following the discussion and I see that you are pandering to a certain viewpoint without giving due regard to Wikipedia's policies on neutrality and biographies of living persons. I would ask you again to discuss first rather than engaging in an edit war on an article with other editors. I have spent far more time working with other editors on this article than you have. If you are really interested in making the article better for the longer run, then the way to do it is through the talk page and making an attempt at consensus rather than brushing aside other editors as 'apparatchiks' when they do not agree with you. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 19:09, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

You have been doing? Since when, in comparison to me? I didn't call him an apparatchik. - Sitush (talk) 19:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

You have your own history of impertinent talkpagebullying in defense of your viewpoint Nick.[9][10]·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Its genuine

Please I request you not to revert it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rajwikipedianrewari (talk • contribs) 15:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Please let me know reason for reverting it back as there are so many private universities are with you on wikipedia. The college deserves to be shown on wikipedia as it is the only college in 5 distrcts and south haryana. which is a major destitute area. I am thankful for your heed and give the page opportunity to the world to edit not alone by you. May be you are at distant place and it has importance in Haryana state of India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rajwikipedianrewari (talk • contribs) 16:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

It is blindingly obvious that you are the indef blocked, self-promoting sockmaster previously known as Austereraj, Raj Kumar Yadav etc. If you want to be unblocked then log in as Austereraj and post an unblock request as instructed there, then someone will review it. - Sitush (talk) 16:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

INCOTM coordinator and RFA proposal

Could you be the coordinator mentioned here: Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_53#Reviving_INCOTM? I'll be there to help you as a second fiddle! --Tito Dutta (contact) 18:05, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I doubt that would go down very well, Tito. There would be a host of people who would object or make my life hell - the usual names spring to mind. - Sitush (talk) 18:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Being an INCOTM coordinator involves opening this page for new nominations, informing INCOTM members about it, closing the discussion after 15 days and filing reports. I can continue filing the reports if any one or both of you can share rest of the responsibilities. This really not a big deal, I doubt anyone will object to Sitush being the coordinator. Things won't seem so difficult once we get this started. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 18:35, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Hm, then we have another problem. Despite appearances, I tend to drift a bit in my on-Wiki presence during the UK summer months. I have a lot of work to do on my houses and the one in Wales has no internet connection, so I can go days and very occasionally a week or more without logging in. - Sitush (talk) 18:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll handle the objections (if any). I am fearing a long wikibreak soon (don't know might be in next month or next year)! few days or a week will not be an issue! Upto 30—45 days absence can be handled. --Tito Dutta (contact) 19:08, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

OK. Give me 24 hours to think about it but most likely, yes. And please don't go, Tito. - Sitush (talk) 19:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Take as much time as you want! No hurry! --Tito Dutta (contact) 19:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

That is why I took reports. I'll be able to update it even if I log in once every month. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 19:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• In addition, you must reconsider my RFA proposal too. It does not matter who nominates, you should go ahead. I'll handle the "angry editors of caste related articles". --Tito Dutta (contact) 19:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
• I have a 100% success rate as RFA nominator (I nominated Ekabhishek and Bgwhite)! I have a special page too User:Titodutta/RFA. Take my words, you'll become admin if you go ahead without any difficulty! --Tito Dutta (contact) 19:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Those SPAs of caste related articles won't make much of a difference. They think you are an admin anyway. :) Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 19:46, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Tell you what, let's do a deal here. Sitush, you accept tito's offer and Tito, you accept my offer. Everybody's happy! I'll write co-noms for both of you. --regentspark (comment) 19:50, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

If Sitush accepts, that might be a festival. I, regentspark, CorrectKnowledge will definitely be nom/co-noms! Dwaipayanc, MatheyVanitas etc may too! It will be like an event or RFA with maximum number of noms too! --Tito Dutta (contact) 19:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Count me in too! I've never had a failed nomination yet. (OK, I've never done a nomination ;-) But I wouldn't start off with one I didn't have confidence in) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The SPA s are not the problem, CK, mainly for the reason that you give, but there are a lot of more regular people out there who frequent those articles and have a (negative) thing about me. I'm not sure that even if Tito has Dara Singh-like physique and skills, they can put a lid on that can of worms.

Tito, you have boundless enthusiasm and joie de vivre, which is truly inspiring, but are you aware of how fireworks are often associated with festivals? :) I've often looked at RFPP and thought "there's another backlog", and I could probably do some good there, but I am yet again involved in a pretty nasty situation which, coincidentally, involves some of my long-term bêtes noire (we rub along ok sometimes, but not all that often). Go take a look at Talk:Narendra Modi and the recent ANI thread relating to it; and then consider whether you really want to risk blotting your 100% record! Meanwhile, I will add the idea of humiliating myself to the list of things to ponder over the next 24 hours. As RP says on your talk, these might be interesting times, which is a reference to a Sitush RFA not a Tito Dutta one. You should go for it. Apologies for all the French. - Sitush (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually Sitush, I think your RfA will be interesting but will likely pass. There is a lot of respect for you in the broader community where you're fairly well known, and your 'battles' are generally confined to caste articles. It is easy to make the case that you've greatly improved those articles (diffs easily available). Many of the editors who've clashed with you on content are reasonable people who might even !vote for you (Sarvajna comes to mind). It's definitely on the cards. The downside is that, once you become an admin, you'll find that it'll hinder your content editing, particularly in caste related articles. That's the tradeoff you'll have to be willing to make and whether the tradeoff is worth it is something only you can decide. --regentspark (comment) 20:34, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

RegentsPark, I think it is sensible to assume that I am involved with regard to pretty much any article and perhaps even any statement relating to caste, so admin actions would not be appropriate in those circumstances. That should not stop me from working on them, merely from doing so in an admin capacity. I have an opinion regarding admin-ship that perhaps does not sit well with our current environment but it does not relate to WP:INVOLVED and, given a few hours, I'll be happy to share it here. Damn, Charles Dickens made a lot of money from cliffhangers such as these! I am no Dickens, although doubtless some would consider the first syllable to be applicable ;) My thoughts were definitely influenced by something that Salvio said quite a while ago but I'm not going to dig around for a diff. Boing!, sacrificing your cherry as a nom is a big step: you may end up being associated with a b*****d. - Sitush (talk) 23:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

You would get my vote at RFA Sit. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Nothing to do with a cow herd! I am still concerned about the viability of that article. - Sitush (talk) 23:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• I am very much confident there will not be any risk in this nomination. Now, everything depends on you. --Tito Dutta (contact) 23:17, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Still thinking. Here's my take on adminship, though. It seems to me that the bar for admin privileges was once much lower than it is and that people who were primarily content creators were once regularly trusted with the tools whereas now the emphasis is more on efforts in areas such as anti-vandalism and the various deletion processes. There are people around from way back who are admins and who, in my experience, seem only rarely to use the tools. And I see nothing inherently wrong with that, provided that they use them appropriately.

  It is true that admin status is not some sort of medal to be won for its own sake. It carries with it powers that can dramatically affect both people and content. However, the frequency with which an admin chooses to use those tools is entirely a matter for them: there are some who rarely do, some who seem to do little else, and even a few who manage to fit somewhere between those two extremes. The key issue is can they be trusted with the tools, not how often they will use them or where. A standard argument nowadays is that because the toolset is overarching, so the nominee must be able to demonstrate a reasonably wide appreciation and experience of the environments where it is applicable. But for quite a few areas that simply seems like overkill. For example, deletion of user pages per user request, actions at WP:RFPP and responding to requests for changes of fully-protected pages seem generally to be issues that have relatively little drama, are essential tasks and need little or no knowledge at all of, say, AfD processes. They are the type of thing that pretty much any experienced content creator can manage, especially if they are used to working in areas where controversies do arise. RFPP, in particular, is an area where backlogs occur quite often and when admins who prefer dealing with deletions etc find themselves having to divert their attention to this often more mundane area then that is limiting their effectiveness: it diverts their energy from something that they are good at and interested in to something that "just has to be done".

  So, while the emphasis at RFA seems nowadays to be that candidates should have a considerable experience of a wide range of processes, it is not actually the case that they necessarily need this. They do not necessarily need to have spent masses of time reverting vandals or participating at AfD etc in order to have a use for the tools, nor should it be assumed that they cannot be trusted if they do not have a phenomenal amount of experience in such areas. Experienced content creators can bring their own background to bear when it comes to editing protected pages etc but it sometimes it seems that they are treated as somehow untrustworthy, even though appreciated, when they are considered for adminship. Doubtless, this is why there are frequent calls for creation of new user rights and for a devolution of some of the tools ... but when I see those discussions what sticks in my mind is the comments that say "it is everything or nothing". It strikes me that adopting the "everything or nothing" approach when assessing a candidate at RfA might sometimes be cutting off the nose to spite the face. If they are trustworthy then they are trustworthy: trust them to ask other admins etc if they are unsure about something and not to go running around deleting the main page, wheel-warring, rangeblocking an entire city or screwing up {{cn}} without a care in the world. They'll almost certainly know what a serial vandal looks like and if they do in fact betray the trust of the community, well, we have procedures for dealing with that situation also.

  One of the most inspiring actions by an admin that I have seen of late is that of Dennis Brown, who has begun creating content, has done so in some considerable style and seems to have enjoyed it. The experience may not change the way he uses his admin privileges (he seems to be a laid-back type of guy anyway) but it will almost certainly have a subtle effect on his thought processes and it reinforces the feeling that "admins are human, too". Admins with such experiences as Dennis, and in particular those who have them in recent memory, can bring a sense of humanity to a role that often can appear to outsiders as mechanical, repetitive and negative: they understand the frustrations and the pleasures of developing content and I think that only be a positive experience that will feed back into their use of the mop. We are all meant to be in this together. - Sitush (talk) 12:09, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Excellent! You should be made admin for this answer alone!

So, while the emphasis at RFA seems nowadays to be that candidates should have a considerable experience of a wide range of processes

— Yes, they generally have more chances of passing RFAs. You surely have that experience. In a recent RFA a candidate had 100,000+ edits with 88%+ mainspace edits and hardly 500 projectspace dits. People objected for having lack of projectspace edits, but, finally he passed. You have much better standing than him.

I am not concerned of your experiences. You will clearly pass there. The problematic parts might be: a) recent block, b) proven SPI, c) recent major copyvio issue d) continuous rude/uncivil behavior with others, e) multiple weird votes with absurd rationale at AFD etc. As far as I know, you don't have these issues, so, we can be optimistic one.

I think, you can call up this comment I am ignoring you Sitush. You are not an admin, or in any position to dictate what one writes. (source). The admisnhip will be the answer of such cheap questions.

Satyajit Ray once told in one of his Professor Shonku story Swarnaparni— (rough translation from memory) I think one should not hesitate to take what he truly deserves. --Tito Dutta (contact) 12:48, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

So I should not hesitate to take the strychnine or cyanide that so many SPAs think I truly deserve? The cheap comments don't really matter because admins are really no more than contributors when it comes to content disputes - the misunderstanding is almost always on the part of the questioners, as it was in the instance that you link. I'll do the INCOTM thing, although it might be easier if I figure out a way to mass notify the signed-up people (AWB?); I'm still pondering admin because I really do not think that recent stuff at Talk:Narendra Modi is going to help matters. Who was the 88% person? That is some going. - Sitush (talk) 05:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I have just changed my computer mouse, I did not know it takes time to get used to of a new mouse. Misclicking/double-clicking every now and then. Anyway, AWB can not mass-notify people. User:Bgwhite may give a better answer! About 88%, there might be only one person with such track record. You can start INCOTM work whenever you want! Everything according to your wish. Hope to get a positive reply from you on RFA soon! --Tito Dutta (contact) 05:06, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll dig into it and either find a bot or just make 30-odd copy/pastes as and when required. Regarding mice, well, I use different mice/touchpads and touchscreens pretty much daily because I fix PCs. Aside from those cumbersome gamers' and graphics designers' mice, I can't say that I've ever had a problem. If you continue to struggle with the double-clicking then check out the mouse settings in your OS - Windows, Ubuntu etc all have the ability to customise the click rate/interval. As for Ekabhishek, well, d'uh, I should probably have known that, shouldn't I? - Sitush (talk) 05:31, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Is Tito talking behind my back again? EdwardsBot is a good bot for doing mass mailings. There are instructions on its user page on how you can send message yourself... within reason. AWB can do mass mailings, but I don't know how.

So Sitush, Tito is pushing you for admin. He did the same thing to me. I curse him everyday for that evil he brought upon me. I think it is only fair that Tito experiences RfA hell before pushing anyone else. #*$&@{ Tito. Bgwhite (talk) 07:21, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot is the one used for The Signpost, IIRC. I'll check that out, thanks. Maybe Tito is trying to build the first Wikipedia cabal. It is true that we do not currently have any, isn't it? :) Sitush (talk) 07:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Banda Singh Bahadur's various names

I noticed you were confused about his different names so I added the following information:

• Banda Singh Bahadur was born as Lachman Das.
• Later in his life he became a disciple of a Bairagi Sadhu who gave him the name Madho Das.
• Finally after an encounter with Guru Gobind Singh he got the name Banda Singh Bahadur.

Jujhar.pannu (talk) 23:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks but the problem is that not all sources agree with this. Or, at least, not all English language ones do and determining which ones are reliable is quite tricky because they are mostly relatively unknown authors and publishers. There is a thread on the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 04:52, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Arbitrary heading

what is your problem,why did you revert my articles?I have not done any work out of wiki rules.I gave references.OK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81jsc (talk • contribs) 10:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I explained on your talk page that we do not categorise people by caste and therefore the category that you recreated and have been adding to articles would be wrong if you had supplied sources. See here for the last deletion discussion regarding this particular category but please note that the same has happened to other caste categories. As it happens, I've so far not seen an example where you supplied a source but I've not finished reverting yet.

Sorry about undoing all your work but Wikipedia works on the basis of cpnsensus and the consensus is that categories of this type should not exist. - Sitush (talk) 10:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Sanjay Dutt

Come here please! --Tito Dutta (contact) 11:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Rajpurohit

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Talk:Rajpurohit.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Bejnar (talk) 19:08, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Talk back

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Yogesh Khandke's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Yogesh Khandke (talk) 16:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't revert my comments ever again

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments, as you did at Talk:Narendra Modi, is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Even making spelling and grammatical corrections in others' comments is generally frowned upon, as it tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Mr T^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 16:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Just stop it, please. You significantly refactored your comment after I had replied and made my reply look weird. I am quite happy to respond to your comment if you reinstate it correctly but I could not ask you to do that because you have banned me from your talk page. Now, you are getting very, very close to being blocked in my opinion, so I suggest that you re-read WP:TPG and recall that I was not able to request you to amend. - Sitush (talk) 16:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

And now you are arguably canvassing. - Sitush (talk) 16:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it is arguable. Ha ha...Do you even know what canvassing is? are you kidding me? It is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions. These guys are already involved in the issue even more than me. If you think I am canvassing, then what can I say. Good bye from your talk. Mr T^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 16:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

You are doing a good impression of a headless chicken at the moment, Mrt. Take the advice on your talk page: have a break. - Sitush (talk) 16:54, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I've just moved another of your comments, Mrt. Again, you inserted after I had replied and it affects my reply. I've not changed a word but have now responded. Hope this is ok - it certainly should be. - Sitush (talk) 09:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Care to explain why on earth you removed my comments in an AE debate as well? Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 18:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

• Already replied on your talk. Our messages have crossed, - Sitush (talk) 18:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Hada/Hara

Umm, yah, I went to the Devanagari transliteration article to double check the spelling. I just looked at that article again, and it sure looks like "ड" should be rendered as a "D". If it should be an "R", then the text of the article itself needs to be changed.

I'll leave that up to you. Cheers.WQUlrich (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. There has been a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, as is evident in the article history. The entirely-fallible Google search would suggest that the prior article title was correct per WP:COMMONNAME but I think maybe in this case it should be punted to WT:INB for additional input. Which I will do now. Thanks for replying. - Sitush (talk) 00:31, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I've raised the issue here - Sitush (talk) 01:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Need your suggestion

I have made a series of edits to Veerappan article, about a bandit and smuggler who killed 100+ policemen and law enforcing people. Now I am wondering, whether, the article can be improved further, to make it a good article. I request you to suggest areas of improvements in the article, to nominate it for GA. Or, perhaps, does it have/not have potential to become a GA? Rayabhari (talk) 14:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey, Rayabhari! I'll certainly take a look soon and I'll reply on your talk page. If you think it is taking too long then feel free to give me a poke in the ribs. I'm sorry about the deletion of the philanthropist article: it was the right thing to do but you put some decent work into that. We live and learn, and I hope that it has not discouraged you. - Sitush (talk) 23:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject India members by list of languages known!

Mention: User:RegentsPark In a recent WT:INB discussion we needed native Tamil speakers and in AFD etc we often need native speakers of specific Indian languages! I am interested to see a doc/subpage under WP:In members with infomations on editors' native languages and the languages they can speak! Just now, redesigning the members page will not be possible, because many of them have left/are inactive, so, no way to learn the languages they knew! --Tito Dutta (contact) 23:41, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

We have categories for at least some of those languages, eg: Category:User_hi-5. Perhaps the way to go is to encourage people to add those cats to their user pages, provided that they are not concerned about disclosing the information. I'm not sure that limiting it to members of the project is necessarily A Good Thing. And in responding to this I have just realise that we have Category:User_Deva-N, which might help to resolve my query here. Serendipity or what?!

Perhaps there is a means of automatically grouping people who are both in the India project category and have categorised themselves with one or more Indic languages, but I'm afraid that is well beyond my pay grade. Stalkers here may know. - Sitush (talk) 23:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, there will be problem of maintaining that list as well! A bot could be helpful here! --Tito Dutta (contact) 00:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, it is never going to be right because people come and people go. I'm not sure how it works but WP:NOE does something fancy that detects whether someone has contributed in the last 30 days and marks them accordingly. My bet is that is some really fancy coding on Toolserver but, although I used to program for a living myself, I've never bothered getting to grips with the Wiki stuff. I'm not even sure if a bot can do the basics that I mentioned but maybe WP:VPT could answer that, assuming we do not have a category for users who have developed bots or are interested in such (we probably do!). - Sitush (talk) 00:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure that VPT is the place to go. But there must be a place to go and if no-one else can direct you then someone there probably can. - Sitush (talk) 00:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Most probably a bot can do that! Hostbot of Teahouse removes names of those hosts who have not edited for 14 days. I applied for a toolserver account, have not got any reply still! --Tito Dutta (contact) 00:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

There has been a big fuss about Toolserver's future but I'm not up to speed with the details. Basically, it is operated by the German WP but the WMF are rolling out a new thing that may or may not be better in the long run. The toolserver sysop was on the verge of resigning in protest some months ago but a deal of sorts was reached, although I seem to recall that it was more of a "holding" situation rather than a five-year plan or whatever. WP:SIGNPOST has covered the story, on and off.

What are you planning on doing with Toolserver? Destroying the wiki in a millisecond? - Sitush (talk) 00:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

BTW, you'll find some info about Toolserver's future via Toolserver#Replacement. - Sitush (talk) 00:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Its here §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

OK. - Sitush (talk) 12:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

The image looks very good! --Tito Dutta (contact) 13:29, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

It's been some time since we've talked and discussed on Iyengar. As you can see, we've been discussing issues under some unrelated topics which left me more confused than ever when I got back to the article's talk page, a few minutes ago. Are you able to follow? Or, shall I start a new discussion (for establishing continuity among contiguous data)? Thank you. Hari7478 (talk) 12:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, gosh. I've just been talking on Tito's page about things coming back from the grave ... and now this issue appears again! I'll try to take a look but can tell you now that I was unable to determine the origins of Iyengars beyond in any more usefulform than that which we had previously discussed. - Sitush (talk) 12:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback message from hari7478

I've opened a new discussion so that it's easier for you to follow the developments and reply to it. Please post your replies under the new discussion as i'm sure you'll be more confused than ever if you ever look back into the previous ones. I've posted links to some new sources too. Thank you. Hari7478 (talk) 14:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Came across your edit summary (the one when you removed the tb templates). Just a reminder that a lot were pending after our last discussion in the talk page and i've posted some new data as well. I didn't re-post the comments/data to which you had replied. It's the new/pending ones which i've discussed under the newly started topic. I was left puzzled when i got back to the talk page earlier today, and i couldn't help but start a new discussion. Hari7478 (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

No worries. I was just getting drowned with templates. - Sitush (talk) 18:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Narendra_Modi_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Cprotect.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29.
Message added 16:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tito Dutta (contact) 16:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. Let them do it or not do it, as they see fit. That article is going to be reduced to little more than a puff piece if the present trend continues but, hey, one day people here will realise what is going on. Probably after he has been elected prime minister next year, which itself might in small part be helped by managing to get our article sanitised beforehand. - Sitush (talk) 16:47, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

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Mouse update!

Update I have discovered the left click of my new computer mouse is faulty. It overclicks and continuously fails to drag and select (because of overclicking). One reason might be the low-price and low quality of the mouse (manufactured by a local company). Right now, I am reluctant to change this mouse, nor visit the shop to replace it. Currently I am working by switching primary and secondary buttons (i.e. using right click as left click and placing mouse at the left side of the keyboard). Hopefully, it'll help me to become ambidextrous! --Tito Dutta (contact) 13:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You may have a bit of dirt/grit/dust/plastic moulding residue under the left button. Slip a thin flat-bladed screwdriver or similar between the button and the body and run it from the left-hand side round to the middle. Don't push it in too far, and give the mouse a shake afterwards. I am ambidextrous with mice and with juggling but not much else. Right now, I'm intending to practice counting to 12 on the fingers of one hand but my fingers have been broken so often that I am a bit arthritic. - Sitush (talk) 14:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

12 fingers one hand? That sounds interesting. I heard about a joke "11 fingers" but that was an idiotic one. Could you explain how are you getting 12 fingers (don't say the fingers are (a, s, d, f— four and g and h—2) x 2)! --Tito Dutta (contact) 14:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Not a case of polydactylism. Apparently, you use your thumb as a pointer and count using the three sections of each of your four fingers (the phalanges etc). So, you can count to 3 on one finger, to 12 using four fingers and to 60 by using your other hand to keep track of how many 12s you have counted. Vigyani mentioned it in passing at WT:INB and then we had a bit of a speculative chat on their talk page in the the thread that I linked above. - Sitush (talk) 14:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

That seems to be Wikimedia India official channel. Is not it? We need a WikiProject India noticeboard related channel! --Tito Dutta (contact) 22:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

WMF IRC

Do you know who own WikiProject India IRC, details here: Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_53#IRC_or_Revive_IRC! --Tito Dutta (contact) 16:36, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

No idea, sorry. I very rarely use IRC. Anna Frodesiak (talk · contribs) uses it quite a lot and may be able to find out for you. - Sitush (talk) 16:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid I can't help. There's something at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics/Archive 53 that keeps triggering the great firewall and my connection cuts out. So sorry. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 17:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Neither do I. Never used IRC - don't know where to start :) --regentspark (comment) 21:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

It seems, we all are following User:Bgwhite (see his user page header I know one thing, that I know nothing) (I was going to write "we are following Socrates, then thought not to make humour on that great philosopher)! --Tito Dutta (contact) 21:47, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Tito, I have just had a consultation with the polymathic Shri Google, who tells me that this is likely to be where you will find your answer. - Sitush (talk) 22:12, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

And I am on it now. Bit empty. I've just increased the active user count by 100%. - Sitush (talk) 22:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

That is definitely the Indian Wikimedia channel. There are some channels for en-WP projects but not for the en-WP India project. this gives details of how to set one up. - Sitush (talk) 22:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Good finding. That might be needed! But, most probably I'll ask someone to set up the channel! --Tito Dutta (contact) 22:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Gyp

Check the Löwchen article and tell me about it. Hafspajen (talk) 15:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

That is much better! Thanks for spending some time on it! I've done a quick copyedit and tagged what I think must be a missing word. I'll take a closer look later. I'll also see if I can find any other sources - it is very reliant on one, although I think that is one more than it had previously?

I'd quibble the "very intelligent" based on personal experience: Gyp is certainly bright but can also be as daft as a brush, and getting him to stand still is hard work even though he'll happily sit still. But personal experience is not WP:RS ... - Sitush (talk) 17:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Geographic articles names

Please cease removing native names from geographic articles. There is not a problem there. --Bejnar (talk) 21:04, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, there is no consensus but it is vague enough that I haven't done so to my knowledge. What article are you referring to? - Sitush (talk) 21:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Ah, you are probably referring to this edit. As the summary suggests, people were changing the script back and forth without explanation and that is precisely one of the reasons why WP:INDICSCRIPT came into being. If in doubt, leave it out. - Sitush (talk) 21:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree, that page needs an infobox, as well as some more work and citations. I have left off the native name until an infobox is ready. Both scripts there should not pose a problem. If editors want to flip the order back and forth, that is de minimus. I did not see any wanton removal there of someone else's script, just the adjustment of the arabic script by Ashixamo who added it originally. No fights. --Bejnar (talk) 21:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that if someone changes a script without explanation then sometimes it can be outright vandalism and no-one will know until someone else who is competent with the script turns up, and that can sometimes be a long wait. Yes, one could make enquiries but that can also sometimes be a slow process. All of this has been discussed previously and led to the consensus that you were made aware of. I seem to recall at the last attempt to sort out the vaguity in relation to geo. articles that you agreed to limit the script to the infobox. I don't think that compromise resolves anything but I really cannot be bothered and will just continue doing what I do if an awkward situation arises. Anyway, as a general rule, I don't have much to do with geographic articles, let alone the scripts in them. - Sitush (talk) 21:52, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

In my editing I find all kinds of vandalism, some dating back four and five years. It is always true regarding vandalism that no-one will know until someone else who is competent in that area comes along. Editors, including myself, do not always read all of an article when they make their edits, nor do they always review the recent history for potential vandalism. As a general rule, when I come to an article with a specific intent (often to check a fact or see if there is a citation I can track down), and find something that strikes me as wrong, misinterpreted, badly cited etc., I don't try to fix everything in the article, but I do try to fix the most egregious problems. But other times, I leave whole sections of an article totally alone, as I realize that starting work on them will take me away from my current task for hours if not days. In the case of the Barmer district article, it was relatively easy to check that बाडमेर was indeed Barmer; however ڙمير did not verify and ٻاڙميڙ (the earlier version by Ashixamo) was closer to "Barmer" in transliteration, and did appear in a number of Scind discussions of the districts of Rajasthan such as this one; not authoritative, but indicative. --Bejnar (talk) 22:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

We've had entire hoaxes dating back that long! I thought that the compromise was that we used some sort of official source - lists of tehsils and suchlike were mentioned, although I guess at district level we'd have to use a state-issued list of districts or something emanating from the district headquarters. - Sitush (talk) 22:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The district websites at nic.in usually work, sometimes the National Panchayat Directory will provide the native name, for example here. I agree that they cannot be substantiated without a source. Seldom an issue, but some like "Trichy" for Thiruchirappalli may not be official, although they are very common. --Bejnar (talk) 03:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I find that access to a lot of content hosted by nic.in is either hit-and-miss or seems never to load (although it doesn't show a 404 error). I've found this to be the case using various ISPs in the UK and (as far as I know) the UK does not block content from India. Anyway, you clearly do not have such issues and so I may come a-calling on you if ever I hit a snag in one my rare forays in geographic stuff! Hope that would be ok? - Sitush (talk) 10:49, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

That would be fine. I'd welcome it. I will be on hiatus from ~10 August to 15 September of this year. --Bejnar (talk) 19:34, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to you let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You do not need to participate; however, you are invited to help find a resolution. The thread is "Talk:Digvijaya Singh_(politician)". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot ^{operator / talk} 04:29, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!

World Digital Library Wikipedia Partnership - We need you!

Hi Sitush! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Wikipedia using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Wikipedia and I look forward to working with you! TheOriginalSoni (talk) 23:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey Sitush! I'm so happy to see you signed up to join the project - welcome. You can dive into our to-do lists here. Be sure to watchlist your favorite to-do lists, as they will continue to grow as new content gets added to the WDL website. Oh, and I know you're interested in India related subjects - you can find a nice start of a to-do list here. Also, you can always search the WDL website for something that you're interested in. And be sure to share your outcomes here. If I can help with anything just ask and welcome aboard! SarahStierch (talk) 03:12, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Talk:Iyengar#Inputs_for_Hari7478.27s_new_sources.
Message added Hari7478 (talk) 21:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I apologize for posting this template if you're following them already. You may remove it. The reason why i'm being so desperate is that you may skip parts of my reply after Mayasutra's ultra-long response which has happened in the past. The sources which you thought "were discussed earlier" were not dealt with. It was just Mayasutra who opposed it but none of the sources that i had mentioned in this discussion were dealt with. Either you don't remember or you think it was solved. It wasn't. Please go through my latest response, top to bottom. Thank you. Hari7478 (talk) 21:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Both, actually. I thought it was solved and that I had taken part in the discussion. But, hey, I'll review the entire mess again - what's another 12 or so hours out of my life :) I'll give Mayasutra some time to check on the new queried sources first but I'll probably check those myself also (I'm hoping for a link because Stein's books are voluminous). - Sitush (talk) 23:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Thanks again. Hari7478 (talk) 00:08, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Just a tip: some of this stuff at Talk:Iyengar is well into WP:TLDR territory. We really do need to find a way to break it down into smaller chunks. It wouldn't surprise me if there have been international treaties with less words in them than some of the posts on that page! I'll do my best to work my way through the stuff but - and this applies to Mayasutra also - we really need to find some way of simplifying the issue. I'll stick a note on Mayasutra's page referring them to this particular comment. - Sitush (talk) 00:25, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Copyright violation in Jessica Lal

Hi Sitush, you reverted my Jessica Lal edit with comment "copyright violation". Just wanted to understand the copyright violation part of it, so I can avoid it in future. Jay (talk) 15:22, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure, Jay. My revert was here. You wrote

Of the total 31 witnesses, only 19 were available for trial as three had died, and the court itself discharged 10 of them earlier on the ground that there was no major deviation between their statements to the police and later to the court. The Delhi High Court will pronounce its verdict on the 19 hostile witnesses on May 22, 2013.

and you used this as your source. That source says

Of the total 31 witnesses, only 19 were available for trial as three had died while the court had itself discharged 10 of them earlier on the ground that there was no major deviation between their statements to the police and later to the court, the prosecution had said.

You have clearly copied words straight from the NDTV source and this is a violation of their copyright: they wrote it and they have said that their words are their legal property. All of their website carries a copyright notice and so they own the content, except perhaps for some photos obtained from other copyrighted sources etc and for the use of which they will have usually paid a fee.

As contributors to Wikipedia, we have to use our own words to reflect the content of sources that we cite. That is best practice even if the source does not assert ownership of what it has published, but it is a "must do" when copyright has been asserted. The exception is that short quotations, if attributed to the source and identified as being a quotation, are ok in some circumstances.

Close paraphrasing is also a legal issue and I think you should read that essay, along with Wikipedia:Copyrights and Wikipedia:Copy-paste. Let me know if there is anything that you do not understand because it is really important that you do understand. - Sitush (talk) 15:41, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll go through those. Jay (talk) 16:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for help on Bahti article

Hi, Sitush! Thanks for setting me straight about the 1901 Census of India over at Bahti. I don't know beans about India or its castes, and was just working through the linkrot backlog. Now I'm off in search of a chocolate teapot. Yum! Kjtobo (talk) 16:15, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

No probs. I did wonder whether you were running through maintenance categories. The primary problem with the Raj censuses was a combination of scientific racism and sanskritisation, although that is by no means where the difficulties end. If you find a store selling a chocolate teapot then they'll likely also sell left-handed mugs - I could do with one of those ;) - Sitush (talk) 16:20, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Ooh, me too - I suppose I'm a leftie in all senses of the word. Also, see How useless is a chocolate teapot? Kjtobo (talk) 19:12, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

That is a brilliant link! And I see my alma mater wish to be associated with it. Perhaps one day when my young nieces call round ... - Sitush (talk) 19:21, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

2013 WikiProject India dispute resolution

That was a request to WP:India to start the initiative and we have started debating right there. Still WP:BD or WP:DRN have not been informed. What do you think of creating a separate page Wikipedia:2013 WikiProject India dispute resolution initiative? --Tito Dutta (contact) 17:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I wondered where it was intended to be heading. I'm not sure what the best route would be but, obviously, if the Bangladesh project know nothing about it then we've all wasted our time thus far. I've got my doubts regarding whether (a) DRN would accept it if the thing is pursued outside the DRN forum and (b) whether anyone at DRN would show greater interest in it than their pretty common, "well now things have calmed down, go back to the talk page and start arguing discussing again". They do good stuff generally but on Indian subjects they seem to be a bit hit-and-miss.

How about first trying to find out how other projects deal with the general issue of assigning nationality when borders change? Then go to the Bangladesh project and ask them whether they could nominate someone to co-ordinate a RfC alongside you? That assumes, of course, that there are differences in how other projects handle the issue: if they all do it in the same basic way then the two India-based projects (+ Pakistan) need to come into line with that. - Sitush (talk) 17:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Just now, I asked Moonriddengirl to head/lead he initiative as a neutral (non Bangladeshi, non Indian) experienced editor. Our noticeboard will be a battlefield if we put everything over here! I was looking at the recent debates of WT:INB. The very basic points are being missed, like, even before the independence of India, the country was "India". It was after 1757 it became British India. But, from history, ancients Greeks derived the word "India" from Indus River, most probably it is mentioned in Megasthenes etc's writings too. --Tito Dutta (contact) 17:48, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

All we need is consensus! If anyone from our or their WikiProjects disagree to the consensus later, they can initiate another RFC. --Tito Dutta (contact) 17:50, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Alas. it seems to be quite common not to engage brain before typing there :(

If you mean 1857 for British India then I've raised that point in the discussion already, although even then there were areas outside control. If you did indeed mean 1757 then you must be thinking of the East India Company, in which case we are also going to have to have Portuguese, Dutch and Arab India. I doubt that MRG has the time to sort something like this out, between her day job and dealing with copyright issues. But you'll soon find out. - Sitush (talk) 17:54, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

We need a neutral editor for sure to avoid systematic bias, you can suggest/ask anyone if MRG does not work here! Category:Poets of Arab India etc sounds weird! --Tito Dutta (contact) 17:59, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I doubt that any name I suggest would be considered neutral, precisely because I suggested it. Just look at the crap at Talk:Narendra Modi, which seems now to be a battleground defined by the people rather than the points they raise: "if you're not with us, you're against us". I'm also not sure that obtaining local consensus (ie: between the two or perhaps three projects) will stick, just as we keep revisiting the Indic script issue even though a localised RfC was held. Let's see if any stalkers here or at MRG's page have some ideas. - Sitush (talk) 18:06, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Umm, let's see. But, we definitely need one/few third country's editor/s. And, ya, about that Indic script consensus, we can revisit that during this 2013BDIDR discussion. As far I know, we already have consensus, only WP India articles will not have Indic scripts, if an article is a part of WP Bangladesh too, they can add Bengali script, we'll not remove. I don't think anyone will have problem with this! --Tito Dutta (contact) 18:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

@Sitush what do you mean Arab India in the 17:54 message. Does that mean Balochistan? Solomon7968 (talk) 18:18, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Arabs are thought to have settled in southern India way back when, trading round the Coromandal Coast area etc. Later, the Portuguese turned up. Then the Dutch kicked out the Portuguese. Then the Brits kicked out the Dutch. Then the Indians kicked out the Brits. - Sitush (talk) 18:59, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

By that sense all people living in the Mughal era will be Central Asia - Indian. I am afraid that I have never heard the term Arab India. Solomon7968 (talk) 19:03, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I wrote that with my tongue firmly lodged in my cheek. My point was that if Tito was referring to the EIC involvement as being the start of British India then the trader-colonists who preceded the (English) EIC must also be considered: the EIC really did not have much of a grip over large swathes of the subcontinent. Actually, it is a wonder that the British Raj did, given that the number of Raj administrators & officers was around 1,000 and the population then was about 700 million. - Sitush (talk) 19:10, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Are Burmese people regarded as British Indians if they are born before 1935? Till 1935 Burma was not separatedSolomon7968 (talk) 19:15, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Let's not go down that road. Luckily, Burma has been a clearly defined entity so let's just leave it that way. (And, it's 1937 not 1935. Plus what about the different times that Upper Burma, Lower Burma, and the Western territories became a part of the British empire? Better not to complicate things beyond control!)--regentspark (comment) 19:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Are they even called Burmese now, given "Myanmar"? This is precisely why I suggested in the discussion that all we can do (and what we should do, regardless) is follow the sources. There are big chunks of our categorisation system that simply do not really work and likely never will do where nationality-based criteria need to be determined, - Sitush (talk) 19:25, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

List of Bhandaris

I see the removal of the List of Padma Shri awardees was unnecessary as I had added proper references this time. Kindly do reply.

Vivo78 (talk) 18:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I have already given you links that explain what is required but the gist is that you need sources that demonstrate the people self-identify as being members of the Bhandari caste. It is not enough just to source that they have been awarded the Padma Shri. In fact, whether or not they were awarded it is really something that is probably best sourced on the individual articles for the various people. OK? - Sitush (talk) 18:50, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Let me give an example. You removed the name of Snehal Bhatkar from the page when he is the father of Ramesh Bhatkar who is listed in the page. Please give a rationale for judging which website source one can follow or not bfore I spend more time hunting references from sites like Times of India & all.Vivo78 (talk) 19:56, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

If they are living then they have to self-identify. I'm not sure how I can make this more clear: you need a source that records them saying something like "I am from the Bhandari caste". It doesn't matter a jot what caste their father may have been from. Have you read the links thatI left on your talk page? - Sitush (talk) 20:01, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear Sitush....Please place this page for deletion in such a case. You should had deleted many other entries in this page too. Heads or Tails, you always seem WINNING seeing your complete talk page with other user comments.Vivo78 (talk) 20:07, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Contributing to Wikipedia is not about winning or losing but rather about producing as good an online encyclopedia as we can manage. We have policies and guidelines to assist us in achieving that goal. No-one expects a new contributor to know all of these policies etc but unfortunately you seem consistently not to understand them. I am more than happy to help you with this but it does require some reading on your part: there is no point in me simply copy/pasting the policies etc every time there is a problem. That is why I asked whether you had already read the stuff I'd left on your talk page.

Read the things when you become aware of them and ask questions if there is anything that you do not understand. Believe me, there is still stuff I don't understand, especially when it comes to issues involving images, but if I am in doubt then I ask someone who may know the answer. - Sitush (talk) 20:18, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

List of Bunts

If reference no. 12 for Sadhu Shetty works fine. then why the same reference link doesnt help for Fighter Shetty, whose entry you just deleted. BTW even Sadhu Shetty didnt "self-identify".Vivo78 (talk) 20:04, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Just because something else is wrong does not justify you failing to adhere to WP:BLP. The burden is on you to ensure that your contributions are acceptable. Feel free to remove Sadhu Shetty from that article if there is no suitable source. - Sitush (talk) 20:06, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Jat People

Please participate in the talk going on regarding your reverts on my edits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jat_people#Journals_vs_Dictionaries

-Viplovecomm (talk) 11:22, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Your post and mine there have overlapped. Feel free to merge the two sections. - Sitush (talk) 11:26, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Iyengar & WP:TLDR

Just came across Mayasutra's response to the TLDR notice that you left at his talk page. I must say it's getting uglier beyond the farthest stretches of our imagination. I request your intervention here. Well, reviewing the data and the sources mentioned (new & pending) is another thing for which i've already left a talkback notice earlier. But there's something else that i want you to know. We all know that i'm the one who's raising "certain issues" in the talk page. But i'm not the one because of whom we're stuck here. We all know who's stalling the proceedings. If Mayasutra really wanted to end the stalemate he should've refrained from posting his usual(lengthy) responses, until you reviewed the data and sources. He could've waited for your response and then posted his views after yours. I'm beginning to get this feeling that he really doesn't want you to look into them, fearing you might find them genuine. Take a look into Mayasutra's response under the "common origins section" discussion, regarding the 6 sources that speak of "thenkalais compiled the prabandhams while vadakalais are sanskritic as opposed to Nathamuni compiling the prabandhams". I've explained it under point5 of my last response(udner the new/last discussion). Or you could go back into that discussion itself and see it for yourself(there's your proof). He didn't oppose them with any reasonable counter claims but was rather bashing me & questioning the credibility of the sources while he also claimed he couldn't view them while we all could. Take a look at his final comment under the newly started(last) discussion. That was totally unnecessary but he always wants to the the one to "have the last laugh/provide the end note/finish the discussion". Yet again a lengthy response lacking evidence. My response to his comments are lengthy(obviously because i'm replying to his posts) but my first comments are never so. Now after stalling everything and buying more time to do research into sources/questioning their credibility, he says "we're stuck; there are repeats", etc while i'm wondering what's with the "wise guy act".

It couldn't get uglier than this and i would appreciate it if you could point me to the right forum so that i could report his behavior. I'm not pressurizing you to act soon in the talk page. Take your time, but in the mean time i'm wondering what to do about this guy stalling everything with his usual "north doesn't necessarily mean north india but north of tamil nadu" comment, and his "badagunadu response" which was not exactly related to the discussion and finally "questioning the credibility of the sources and buying more time for his supposed research". Hari7478 (talk) 10:16, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Hari, I'm trying not to take sides here and, yes, there may be things that I miss within discussions and that I need a prod (not a WP:PROD!) to understand. But it does become wearisome when I'm faced with huge chunks of text that are basically whinging about someone else. We all do it, of course, but more often than not short is sweet. I'm involved in all sorts of awkward stuff at the moment but please believe me, I'll take a closer look just as soon as I can. This one is not a quick-fix situation but, hey, there is no deadline. - Sitush (talk) 00:31, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Jat People". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 2 June 2013.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 13:35, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

• You don't half get yourself into the wars Sitush. Why don't you try something less stressfull for a bit of light relief, such as the Sunbeam Tiger? It's done wonders for me. Eric Corbett 15:14, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

• Your choice of phrasing is good because the issue relates to whether a caste is of the warrior varna! The request for mediation is premature and will fail. I have good intentions wrt developing some less controversial articles but they ain't materialising. It has been suggested before that I just drastically prune my 1700-page watchlist. However, I've spent a lot of time fixing this type of crap and I don't want to see it return to the previous poor state and see hours and hours of research wiped out. If they have a good point then that is fine but almost always they do not. - Sitush (talk) 15:39, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

  I admire your spirit, but I've abandoned lots of articles when they become too much like hard work. I don't need to come to Wikipedia to get abused, and neither do you. Eric Corbett 16:43, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

• I get exasperated sometimes but I'm becoming pretty unconcerned about abuse generally. What does concern me on odd occasions is the possibility of a visit by the goons from the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh or similar. I know that I've dealt with people who have sympathy or involvement with such mobs (a word I use advisedly) and I know that I have pissed them off. I also know that my address has been traced. All this "open-ness" about usernames etc is fine and good until you get nutters turning up on your doorstep. Mind, since they know where I am there is probably little point in maintaining a facade. - Sitush (talk) 21:11, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Stop your wiki bullying

Just stop it. You can't enforce your style of editing on other editors. Your way is not always the right way. Other editors have also complained of your cyber bullying behavior. So take a step back and try to take a neutral way of editing. TimesGerman (talk) 23:43, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Sitush is far more often right than wrong. Your hostility is not going to get the wished-for response. You might want to rethink your strategy. Binksternet (talk) 23:47, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Binskternet. TG, you are to all intents and purposes operating as a single-purpose account, being articles related to the Chamar people. In one sense, it is good that you have such dedication but I think that you could benefit this project in many more ways. And the SPA aspect means that you perhaps do not appreciate what is best or even common sense practice here. Spreading your wings a bit might be A Good Thing both for you and indeed Wikipedia in general. Anyway, I've replied at Talk:Jatav and we can take it from there ... but I'm am not going through yet another long, tedious discussion such as we have had in the past. You can expect the cavalry to be called in pretty quickly unless you have good reasons for your complaint.

Oh, and you might want to check out WP:NPA. - Sitush (talk) 00:07, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

You are fanatic Hindu you evan don't have a knoowledge of hindu mythology.....Sukhdev Singh Minhas 08:58, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello Sitush , I don't know who you are? but I trhink you are using this fake name, infact you are fanatic hindu and active for anti sikh minded organization like VHP & RSS. this is also not good for Wikipedia also. you know the Bhardwaj mean, origin, you know the theory of all kshatriya origin ? If you know plz share..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sukhdev Singh Minhas (talk • contribs) 08:58, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Love it. On Talk:Narendra Modi I am accused of bias against the RSS/BJP etc and here I'm accused of favouring the same. - Sitush (talk) 09:05, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• See User:Titodutta/Essays/Watch_your_words,_please!#Don.27t_predict_about_other_editors. --Tito Dutta (contact) 09:10, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Sitush I too like this! Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

When partisans of all camps complain because you don't support their POV, you must be doing something right! Congratulations! --Orlady (talk) 15:51, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It happens a lot, but a fair few of them get revdel'd due to the language. I am variously accused of being pro-India, pro-Pakistan, pro-Hindu, pro-Islam, pro-Skih, pro-Buddhist etc, pro-BJP, pro-INC ... and I am accused of being the opposite of all these and more. I'm also accused of being UK-centric when I am near the forefront in efforts to remove the unreliable Raj-based stuff and come up with articles such as H. H. Risley. What this all shows is that the most likely "accusation" that can be levelled about me is that I am in fact pretty neutral. To paraphrase a chant heard on the football terraces of the UK, "Nobody likes me and I don't care." - Sitush (talk) 15:54, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• The way I look at it, the more protesting POV-pushers/vandals you annoy, the better you're doing your job. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 16:00, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Well, to a point. It would be nice if they could be encouraged to become decent contributors but it seems rarely to be possible. And that then leads to the common accusation that I am regularly responsible for other people being blocked in order to further what others see as being my POV, ie: it's somehow not their fault but mine. I can't win! - Sitush (talk) 16:15, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Just blame the blocking admin, and I don't mind if it's me - part of my aim as an admin is to try to redirect the shit that so often gets thrown at our best content creators ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:08, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Good strategy! Binksternet (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Boing!, I'm already blaming you for the rain that is pissing down here and for various other so-called acts of god that are messing up my plans. Allowing me to burden you with my troubles in the parallel universe that Wikipedia has been for the last few weeks is perhaps taking your responsibilities a bit too far. Just fix the damn rain, will ya? Do I have to light a candle or what? - Sitush (talk) 17:39, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• It is far beyond the Holy Rule Book of Civilty to compare any editor, including yourself, to Millwall. By the power of Greyskull decree of the Cabal of Rouge admins TINC! mandate from the community, I hereby ban you from comparing any editor, including to but not limited to yourself, broadly construed, with a bad football club, narrowly construed, enforceable by guillotine. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 17:52, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, comparing myself to the fans of Millwall may well have been a momentary lapse of reason. FWIW, there have been accusations of an anti-India cabal of Wikipedians who apparently meet from time to time at a city centre pub in Manchester. That this would have involved one of the alleged members making a multi-thousand mile round trip every few months for an afternoon of plotting seemed not to affect matters in the slightest.- Sitush (talk) 23:08, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oh! It would seem that in one of the current fracas involving me, I am expected to mention Margaret Thatcher given that I've already mentioned the weather above. So, job done. - Sitush (talk) 23:27, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Legends - importance

I am improving Roopkund article, where hundreds of skeletons (of 9th Century AD) are found, but no reliable historical sources are available for the reason of such find. I have put my doubts in talk page of the article and I request you to give me suggestion for including the details of legends in the article and how much importance can be given to such legends.(as there are no other reliable sources)Rayabhari (talk) 05:00, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

AFD

Thanks for your reaction. Yes, I take part only in discussion related to the AFD. I always give my views on pages which should be deleted, thats why I vote 'SPeedy Delete' or 'Delete'. I took part in about 65 AFD and voted to remove the pages. and you can see that after the discussion more then 85% pages were deleted. In my views, the page is not suitable for Wikipedia. Its not a notable schoolJussychoulex (talk) 07:57, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Priyadarshini Raje Scindia for deletion

What's wrong with that? She is a Princess of Gwalior city. She deserves to be on Wikipedia. I have also added some important references on the article as well. Shobhit Gosain (talk) 10:55, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Take it to the AfD please. Your references were nothing but fashion notes. - Sitush (talk) 11:18, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Not just fashion, references include some reputed government websites and she is being mentioned in most of the articles of Wiki.Shobhit Gosain (talk) 03:01, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

No, the sources that were in the article at the time of nomination were just fashion notes etc. And that she is mentioned in other articles is in large part down to you adding her name to those other articles. Now, I ask you again: please discuss what should be done with this article at the AfD, not here. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 08:02, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Could you handle...

Talk:Bhagavad_Gita#Netaji_and_Gita and Talk:Swami_Vivekananda#RfC_at_Swami_Kriyananda? --Tito Dutta (contact) 05:02, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I've added a comment at the second of those. Regarding the first, I really not knowledgeable about the subject matter and am not entirely sure what the issue may be. If it relates to how much detail should be included in article A when article B deals with the topic in depth then I think WP:Summary style might be worth a read. - Sitush (talk) 09:29, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Also see - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Paramahansa_Yogananda Red Rose 13 (talk) 16:54, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

If memory serves me right, there is already a very experienced contributor assisting with disputes etc on the Yogananda article. What section of the talk are you referring to? - Sitush (talk) 17:10, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

It is the last one called Pending Removal of Paramahansa - I am not experienced with this issue.Red Rose 13 (talk) 17:29, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Image Question

Morning Sitush, I have tried twice in the past 15 minutes to upload an image (a logo for a TV station). I go through the steps, source the image, etc. and each time the image does not upload. I'm unsure what it is I'm doing wrong. Do you know if there is there a problem with the upload wizard or am I doing something wrong that I am not seeing? Thanks...Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:08, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

It has happened to me too! After clicking on upload you find nothing has been uplodaed. Is not it? Check the extension of the file! Or, try this one: do not save the image directly, take a screenshot of the wb page and in MS Paint (or whatever image editor) you use, crop the logo from the webpage. Then try uploading! --Tito Dutta (contact) 09:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

You might have to check at WP:VPT for any issues. The wizard was working on en-WP last week when I used it, and it was working at Commons yesterday. I've seen - but not followed - a discussion somewhere recently concerning uploads of screencaptures from TV but I'd imagine the logo comes from a website, not a screencapture. Tito is right that the wizard only accepts certain file formats but I've never found myself in a position where the format I wanted to upload was not supported - it does, however, list them near the start of the process and so it might be worth checking if you can bring yourself to have another go! - Sitush (talk) 09:24, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

• Upload this image for Gomolo article and see if you face such problem --Tito Dutta (contact) 09:28, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Ironically, the Gomolo image uploaded with no problem (which I posted to the Gomolo page, by the way). Let me try my image again and see if it was a temporary issue. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:40, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

But mine did not. No clue why. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:45, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

What is the file extension for yours? Can you post a link here to the source of the image? - Sitush (talk) 09:48, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure, the file is here and I am trying to save it as "K26GS-LD_2013.png" (minus the quotations, of course) per the uploading and naming convensions. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:58, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I've tried and I hit the same problem, both with and without the underscore. The file type and size is fine, the free use logo etc s/b fine. Have you tried using a different filename? You could call it anything you like and then ask for a rename later, so perhaps try a variant without punctuation just in case that is what is blipping (although it shouldn't). Other than that, this looks to be a VPT issue because I am stumped. - Sitush (talk) 10:18, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I always try to use the callsign of the station, which in this case is K26GS-LD and I use the year. I can ditch the year and give it a try. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:21, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

: ...or not. I asked on ANI before here and User:Begoon got it to upload, but he named it Image:K26GS-D TV Station Logo.png. I am wondering if it was kicking it because of too many numbers in the file name. Either way though, it is uploaded. :) I would probably check with VPT just to make sure it wasn't the "too many numbers in the file name" and it is a problem/bug in the file upload wizard. Thanks for your help. :) Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:29, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Forum shopping is not always a bad thing! I'm glad that it is sorted but would love to know what the problem was. It could be that the form needs amending to indicate that the naming conventions are restricted in ways that are not presently explained. We could be putting off uploaders without either a fix or an explanation, assuming that this is a systemic problem rather than a blip. OTOH, given the number of copyright violations that are uploaded ... - Sitush (talk) 10:51, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

And here is something to entertain you while you work.[11] Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 23:55, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yes. I have that lying around somewhere as a single, complete with a picture sleeve as was the emerging fashion for singles back then. I may even have bought the thing primarily for the cover because it was a double-A side with Fat Bottomed Girls on the other face. So, the cover picture was, well, fat-bottomed girls on bikes. Except they were not shown as fat-bottomed but as being rather well-endowed on their frontage. Well, that is my memory of it anyway, but perhaps that was a fold-out picture in the album (Jazz?)) Terribly sexist, of course, but boys will be boys and even I could hear the driving beat of FBG, although hearing the the lyrics was beyond me.

Some day, Dennis, you should scour YouTube or whatever for the works of John Cooper Clarke: he was much more my style then - it was/is "grim up north" -and remains so now, but you can't really dance or shake your head to it. Look for I Wanna Be Yours or Chickentown or Beasley Street. A sample from the latter that hopefully does not breach copyright:

The kingdom of the blind
a one-eyed man is king
Beauty problems are redefined
the doorbells do not ring
A lightbulb bursts like a blister
the only form of heat
here a fellow sells his sister
down the river on Beasley Street

The boys are on the wagon
The girls are on the shelf
Their common problem is
that they're not someone else
The dirt blows out
The dust blows in
You can't keep it neat
It's a fully furnished dustbin,
Sixteen Beasley Street

Eric can probably fill you in on the atmosphere. It was grim. - Sitush (talk) 01:11, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Moving Page -> what is the thumbrule

Hi. I observed [12] edit, in which the entire intended meaning of the title is changed. "Aspirant States" is moved to "Proposed States" - "aspirant" means essentially a demand by the people. "Proposed" may mean, a proposal by Government. The user has also edited map as "proposed states of India", which originally was "aspirant states of India" and replaced the map in dozen or more articles. I think such edits/moving are "unsourced" and propose to revert it with reason "unsourced". Can you kindly give your opinion? Rayabhari (talk) 16:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

You'll need to discuss this on the article talk page. My gut feeling is that you are correct but the people involved are experienced contributors and it would be interesting to know their full rational (the edit summaries are a bit vague and/or truncated). - Sitush (talk) 10:38, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Note

This article went to Afd, was deleted and then redirected and recreated, with the full name of the subject, by the closing admin, after he was contacted by the creator. I just find it a bit odd. The revision history is revealing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parikipandla_Narahari http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:King_of_Hearts&oldid=552252566#Articles_for_deletion.2FP._Narahari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/P._Narahari

Please have a look.--Zananiri (talk) 20:39, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

You'll need to ask King of Hearts what is/was going on. I've edited the thing a bit but I cannot read their mind, sorry. I presume that it is substantially different from the previously deleted version because otherwise it could have been deleted per WP:CSD as an article recreated after an AfD. Too many people have edited it now for that to apply, so you'd have to renominate it at AfD if you think it is unsuitable for inclusion on Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 10:31, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Request for mediation rejected

The request for formal mediation concerning Jat People, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, User:PhilKnight (talk) 02:10, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

A bowl of strawberries for you!

please sir do not delete the information about the page duhan i collected these information with very hard workung thanking u rsinghduhan 05:55, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Re: Politician categories

Namaste, Sitush. You have got at least one new message at the Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. Please continue the discussion there!
Message added by Tito Dutta  (talk • contributions • email) 10:26, 5 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time.

Question

What's your problem with me dude? What do you want from me exactly? I haven't created any problem for you and you, again n again is trying delete everything what I created. Leave apart the Priyadarshini Raje Scindia article, but the other external links I posted and the other articles I created, you are behind everything. Any personal problem you have man? You are free to come down to my city and show your cold anger. You are deleting everything with the help of your knowledgeable friends on Wikipedia. Man you are amazing and I agree, but please calm down a bit and make Wikipedia a happy place for other to survive. I am not taking your place after all. Shobhit Gosain (talk) 16:52, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Try finding reasons to establish the notability of your subjects rather than taking edits "against" "you" personally. Please study the various "notability" criteria. Gook luck. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:59, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Meat-market

You used the word meatmarket, do you mean meat market as in meat-market?

Colloquially, a meatmarket is a place where people ogle other people, most usually used to refer to men ogling women and doing so on the basis of the women's looks. Whether the ogling goes any further depends on the context. - Sitush (talk) 19:49, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Would you kindly link to the meaning as provided by you as against the one provided by urbandictionary.com Yogesh Khandke (talk) 07:10, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

No because UD is no a reliable source. I have explained what I meant - take it or leave it. - Sitush (talk) 07:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Well you call a source non-reliable, you use a word with respect to subjects/ sources that has grossly obscene and lewd connotations, you refuse to back up your claim with sources. I don't have the time or the energy to take on the stormtroopers who would soon march in. All suggest is that it is desirable that language used in communication ought to be formal and civil. I leave it to you to have the last word. Good day!

As so often, Yogesh, I really don't give a crap what you think. - Sitush (talk) 07:37, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Meat market is a very, very common term. Sitush description is accurate, though the ogling can go both ways. Yogesh, it takes ten seconds to do a Google search on "meat market dictionary" to find the definition. Try using Google instead of badgering someone. Bgwhite (talk) 07:49, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism List of Nadars

At List of Nadars, Could you please read the article which i have provided as an proof, it seems your main intention is not in the correct path. If you are trying to vandalise the page, it is not serving the interest of Wikepedia in any way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr n Mrs (talk • contribs) 18:26, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I've have previously pointed to User:Sitush/Common#Castelists. Have you read that? Is there something in it that you do not understand. - Sitush (talk) 19:51, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Care of Sir

The article C/O Sir has been created and nominated at DYK (page not transcluded still). Do you know should "C/O" be in cap or small i.e. C/O Sir or c/o Sir? It is not clear in poster, nor I got any help in world wide web. --Tito Dutta  (talk • contributions • email) 08:19, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

How do the cited sources refer to it? It could also be "C/o", and I'd guess that it probably is. - Sitush (talk) 08:21, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

User talk : Need help on a Wikipedia article

This article India_Against_Corruptionis full of unverified sources and claim and in violation of NPOV . It need help from expert . The most sources are link to a propoganda website www.rise.net.in .Please edit this page. ThinkingYouth (talk) 12:10, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

User:Sitush I edited the India_Against_Corruption article and found , blatant pushing of biased POV by other editors ,adding unverified claims and picture without citing Proper WP:RS .Now ,it is resultantant in a edit war .I request your help in this article to improve it to the Wikipedia standard WP:NPOV. ThinkingYouth (talk) 07:00, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I am rushing around prior to going away for a couple of days. IAC-related topics are almost always problematic in my experience but it will have to wait until I get back, sorry. Whatever you do, don't get involved in an edit war - keep on discussing at the talk page. - Sitush (talk) 10:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Dear Editor Sitush

Thank you very much for advice.I'll avoid any future edit warring.(and I agree with you IAC related topics are indeed problematic and I'm glad, Admin editors has started cleaning process). ThinkingYouth (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:35, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Bowlderising the military history of Mahars

Recently I noticed that someone added some caste-puffery to Mahar, mentioning how noble and brave they were, "martial race" and all that. That rang a bit odd to me, having Dalits as a martial race (though not unknown in the shifting of definitions over time), so I dug into it. What I found was that the Mahar were heavily recruited into the East India Co., but after the 1857 affair, like many groups now seen as "disloyal" they were weeded out of the forces, and then in the 1890s Kitchener declared Maharashtra untouchables unfit for service and booted the last of them, causing the various untouchables to band together to petition to be allowed to enlist again, with all kinds of interesting social/practical/mythic/political arguments.

I don't necessarily think that the editors who worked on it before didn't know this, but I imagine this is yet again one of those ghastly bits where members think it's "derogatory" to mention being kicked out of the Army, and so instead of shining some light on a history of discrimination, shifting politics, social realignment, they just gloss it over with "we've always been awesome". I don't know whether my upsetness over this is pure academic "the truth should come out", and to what degree it's part of the Western world's gradual (and partial) rejection of "yay our side is always right even when we're doing horrible things" narrative in favour of histories that admit atrocities and failings of past Euro/American groups and figures. But in whatever case, now that we've largely successfully tamped down the obvious "we are noble Kshatriya forever and ever" puffery, I'm taking more of an interest in finding the quiet ommissions in the non-controversial articles that may have slipped under the radar.

On a minor sidenote, I can't count the number of times that (quite possibly Maratha) editors have stricken out the bit from Sambhaji where I note (with very clear cites) that he was locked up by his father for licentiousness and debauchery. Prior versions just vaguely mention his getting locked up with no context. The bowlderising thereof is alternately hilarious and infuriating for me. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

New article - suggestion requested

Hi. Can you kindly review the article Joan Margaret Legge, created by me (to be developed) regarding (1)notability (2) quality of sources I have used, for reliability etc. Rayabhari (talk) 08:19, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Merge proposal Self-Realization Order & Self-Realization Fellowship

See the talk page regarding this - [13]. Have we wanted long enough? Would like to merge the two. thanks Red Rose 13 (talk) 12:13, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Titodutta's talk page.
Message added 20:17, 9 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tito Dutta  (talk • contributions • email) 20:17, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Guide

I have started Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Guide, you can help to expand (specially the "Common mistakes" section)! --Tito Dutta  (talk • contributions • email) 10:58, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

New York Social Diary

NYSD has been used 91 times as a source/ mentioned on Wikipedia, why the latest edit at Scindia? Yogesh Khandke (talk) 14:34, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I really don't give a toss, Yogesh. H. A. Rose has been used far more often and is bloody useless even though some claim it be ok, whilst NYSD is just pure puffed-up name-checking by ... well, exactly who is it by? Who is that guy? The only reason why you would descend on that AfD is because I nominated it and so you perceive systemic bias. The sooner Wikipedia is rid of you, the better because you clearly do not understand much about it, for all the words you type. - Sitush (talk) 14:38, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I am sad that you make such allegations. I told the creator of Scindia above, I'm telling you here; it is unfortunate if we personalise the differences we have as editors, I'd be happy if you strike the venom off, I'm sure you don't mean to sound the way the words appear. I checked NYSD and saw its 91 appearances and then added it, if it is trusted 91 times why is it bad the 92nd time? I also checked whether others take it seriously (I mean real life media) apparently it is taken note of.[14] Yogesh Khandke (talk) 14:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Yogesh, Sitush asked you to go away, as is his right on his own talk page. Please just leave him be, at least for the time being. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:54, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yogesh, the chances of me not letting fly with some "venom", as you call it, are slim where you are concerned. Why you cannot appreciate this is beyond me - you are an anti-British, anti-colonial, historical revisionist whose understanding of policies and guidelines varies in direct proportion to how well they will suit your purpose. If you think there is any scope for me to assume good faith here then, yes, you are a better man than I am. Now, go read WP:OSE and WP:DUE ... again. That one blog-type gossip website published by, erm, somebody is not worth the screen space it appears on. And reflect on my thoughts with reference to the AfD comments. Just because some ditsy Nigel Dempster socialite column describes her as a queen doesn't make it so.

I don't mind you commenting here when you are being sensible but, alas, that is a rarity and I've been drawn into an awful lot of extremely prolonged discussions because of your tendentiousness in the past. I think I can count your "successes" in those discussions on the fingers of one hand. So, if you want to make a point then that's fine but I'm not wasting any more time with in-depth whys and wherefores. - Sitush (talk) 15:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I've just seen this response to one of your comments. It pretty much sums up the problem that people who do understand policy have with your apparent hit-and-miss capability to do so. - Sitush (talk) 15:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I laugh when they call you anti-foo, I laugh when you call me anti-foo. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:08, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

The difference is, you have a topic ban for being anti-. Go figure. - Sitush (talk) 15:09, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't make me stop laughing. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:32, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I can believe that: you seem almost consistently to miss the point, so why should you be any different on this occasion? Now, this is over: you are not advancing things in the slightest & I have better things to do with my time than engage with your silly mind-games. - Sitush (talk) 15:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Since guys with brooms might think I'm badgering you, please reply to the NYSD matter on the article page. Though as I said earlier I'm sunk in RL issues and so I'll get back I don't know when. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:35, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

No. It is at AfD and has been referred to there. - Sitush (talk) 15:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

A bowl of strawberries for you!

Hey Sitush! I am BPositive, who used to co-ordinate INCOTM a while ago. Sadly, I am still busy and occupied as before but at the same time, I am glad that you have accepted to volunteer for the project and co-ordinate it. I wish you all the very best and hope to see some great collaborations in the coming months! Cheers mate! :-) BPositive (talk) 15:49, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Under duress! If/when you get back into the swing of things, I'll happily pass the responsibilities back in your direction. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the strawberries. Thanks! - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you for your edits in "Aam Aadami Party" Page.Thanks for standardize the Article.Cheers, Keep doing the good work..! ThinkingYouth (talk) 06:03, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

My take

What I fail to understand is how an article about this Gwalior woman which concentrates on genealogy for the most part and is reminiscent of Facebook stuff, giving the names of her antecedents, and even those of her children, who have achieved nothing to date, in the infobox and the article, something even obituarists (I know aomething about the subject) generally avoid when writing obituaries, has not been given the boot. The nonsensical references cited by its proponents, citing an obscure American website, not so au courant l with history, calling her a queen and a minor university in the UK calling her a maharani in the lead (a la Facebook) as 'evidence' of her so-called elevated status makes me wonder on what grounds the article has been retained. Was there really no consensus, given the facts? Surely, it amounts to a denial of history - those born after the titles became history never did have any titles. Reminds me of that historian who denies the holocaust took place. To me, the article is more Facebook than Wiki. The mind boggles!--Zananiri (talk) 18:49, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree with your thoughts about the subject matter but suspect that Bwilkins took into account the sheer number of passing mentions etc that people were able to dig up. Correctly or otherwise, she does have quite a few name-checks even if the contributors to the discussion really do not have much clue when it comes to what constitutes a reliable source etc, and some of those sources were practically WP:FRINGE given their sycophantic use of titles that do not exist. I wouldn't have made the decision that Bwilkins made but, hey, I'm involved and they are not. What does irk me is that while WP:BURDEN means verifiability must exist otherwise content can be removed from an article, it does not apply to whether consensus to keep exists - if there is no consensus then an article stays, and that has always seem wrong to me.

I could use the decision as a basis for adding articles about numerous habituées of the gossip columns (fatuous, self-serving oglers and hangers-on, as a rule, and mostly female for some reason that I've never been able to fathom) but I've got better things to do with my time than add yet more crap to this rapidly deteriorating mess of an encyclopedia. So, I suggest that the best course is one of damage limitation and then moving on to more important matters. Storage is cheap, as the inclusionists are fond of pointing out.- Sitush (talk) 19:02, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Need Correction and Proper attention.

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits at AAP Page.I notice you reverted a AGF edit [15] and later removed the content( 3 websource) [16],[17] and [18],stating 404s error.If you look closely,the reverted edit[19][20] had corrected the 404s error link,which you overturned/discared by saying "No need for these extra sources".Pls update the weblinks. One more thing ,Your edit comments [21],[22],[23] indicate something conflicting/personal going on with you regarding/context-of AAP Article page.
PS: Thanks for all editing and standardizing Wikipedia Articles .Cheer,Keep doing the good work..!ThinkingYouth (talk) 23:08, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

You may be correct about the timing of various removals but the statements still have two reliable sources and that is ample. I've not looked at the diffs regarding a potential conflict of interest. You'll just have to take my word for it: I have no conflict, no personal connection to India and am so apolitical that I have never even voted in the UK, where I was born and live.

I am concerned about the amount of "hoo-hah" surrounding the emergence of the AAP. This is based mainly on my general experience that political parties in India come and go at what seems to be an incredible speed, that protests are "ten-a-penny" and that the AAP is itself some sort of revitalisation of the India Against Corruption movement that didn't really last very long - to use a phrase that often appears at WP:ANI, it has been "more heat than light". Wikipedia exists to pass on encyclopaedic knowledge but it is neither a news organisation nor a platform for promotion of causes. I can understand that people closer to events might feel very strongly about the AAP agenda etc but this project is not the place to right great wrongs. I could list a heap of Indian politics-based articles that were started with good intentions but fizzled out and are now hopeless because they have been abandoned after the initial enthusiasm for the cause. One example might be the Cash-for-votes scandal. We really do need to get a grip on this sort of thing and I'll do my bit where I can. I'm not always right, of course! - Sitush (talk) 23:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Your comments were amusing (a little funny ,sarcastically),But is that allowed in WP norms to pass sarcastic opinion/judgements.Btw,I didn't implied WP:COI on you!So,No need for clarification.(Answer: He is alive ! :P ) ThinkingYouth (talk) 00:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't my intention to be sarcastic. I'm well aware that articles such as this tend to attract a lot of interest and then peter out (as with the example I mentioned above). If he has gone since sometime in March without food or liquid then he is lucky to be alive, which makes me think it is more likely a symbolic act and a case of wearing a fur coat and no knickers. That's not a meaningful protest, is it? Do you think anyone involved in these various Indian protests has heard of, say, Bobby Sands? Like him or loathe him, that was a deeply-felt protest. - Sitush (talk) 00:32, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

AAP

Dear Sitush, so glad you could squeeze me while editing Nagercoil etc. I OTH edit coolly, under no time pressure to reach 1 million edits. Please go over my edits coolly, I'm in no hurry. News sources about AAP (or even IAC in Kejri days) are hurried affairs with each reporter scrambling to get "breaking news" into their feed and damn the quality. Which is why analysis pieces written 1 month after the fact (Revati Laul of Tehelka comes to mind), are so much better. PS: "poor edits" is WP:NPA. AcorruptionfreeIndia (talk) 17:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

No it's not. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:12, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

IAC

I disagree with your removing the image of "Manoj Pai" conversing happily with Anna Hazare, and retaining one of the other G-Sec "Karira" with his back to Anna. The article also referred to "Many of the present participants ..." so 2 images was in context. The image of Manoj Pai was previously cited by me to User:ThinkingYouth in the Talk page as an example of the camaderie between IAC and Anna, is that why it was removed ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AcorruptionfreeIndia (talk • contribs) 17:15, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Look, take all this stuff to the article talk pages and please be careful. You are getting fairly close to being blocked or even topic banned. You clearly have a huge POV and/or conflict of interest going on. - Sitush (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Neetu Chandra

According to IMDB it's her birth date.Halmstad (talk) 01:11, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

IMDB is not a great source. - Sitush (talk) 12:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Bangalore Tamils

Hi Sitush,

This article is wriiten completely from a Tamil perspective. Can you please review this article if you find time. I am currently traveling, so do not have much of time to do the same. Thanks, — Abhishek  ^Talk 09:52, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Redirected. It seemed basically to be an unfocussed POV fork/coatrack, probably because the creator was having problems at Bangalore. - Sitush (talk) 11:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Million/lakh

There is a difference between a million and a lakh – [24]. Also, please link to the discussion on WT:INB when reverting other users. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 18:41, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Nick, just go away please. You and I are not going to get on. Rayabhari knows me well enough and quite why you are sticking your nose in is beyond my comprehension. If you want to screw up that article like you have with the tendentious policy-wonkery at the Modi article then feel free, but don't come here with your niggling stuff. Change the thing back, go on another crusade to protect the honour of India etc and leave me out of it. - Sitush (talk) 18:46, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I have no interest in coming to your talk page. The page on Aam Aadmi Party has been on my watchlist, and you certainly do not own any of these articles. Please remember to comment on the content rather than the contributor. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 18:54, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Fuck off. - Sitush (talk) 19:05, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

• Both of your seperate...now.
• @Nick: Once Sitush said to "go away please" that was the end of the discussion, further edits were not necessary.
• @Sitush: "Fuck off" is just plain unnecessary and you know this.
• @All: Both of you should steer clear of each other and if you must be in contact, I would go through a middleman (an admin). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

It was not "plain unnecessary". I'm happy for this to go to ANI. My bet is Nick is not because there is a substantial backstory here and he could well end up losing his bit. Me? I'll just get a block but I've managed to go this long without one despite my involvement in these controversial areas, so what the heck ... - Sitush (talk) 23:23, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't want either of you to get blocked, I don't want to see anyone get in trouble, just want both of you to steer clear of each other. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:00, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I will admit to misreading Rayabhari's edit and I apologise for that. For some reason, I thought they were editing the other "million" figure that appears in the article (10 million rupees, 1 crore). That was a massive brain fart on my part but (a) we really should not be mixing units in the article and (b) the info that Rayabhari changed was not inserted by me in the first instance. I have been trying to figure out all the problems with the article but it is not difficult to see the point where I had stopped editing and started pondering/researching. So, sorry to Rayabhari for my mistake. No apologies to Nick, who should know better and was simultaneously involved in a pathetic piece of pedantry relating to a translation, not dis-similar to the inconsistent pedantry that he has been displaying at Narendra Modi. Now, I'm off to bed and (hopefully) off to Wales tomorrow. Good night all. - Sitush (talk)

Ooh, Wales, nice! :) Have a safe trip. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:26, 14 June 2013 (UTC)