User talk:Rikiwilchins

Welcome!

Hello, Rikiwilchins! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! Taci (tlk) (she/ey) 22:56, 26 September 2021 (UTC) Getting Started Introduction • Contributing to Wikipedia • Your first article The five pillars of Wikipedia • Simplified ruleset How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Get help at the Teahouse Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions Department directory Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Verifiability • No original research Reliable sources • Citing sources • Content guidelines What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style (Simplified) • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sockpuppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump IRC channels • Mailing lists The Signpost (Wikipedia's newspaper) Things to do Task Center • Be bold in editing Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Copy editing • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguation • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Karen Ulane

Hey there @Rikiwilchins: thanks for making some contributions to the Karen Ulane article. Her story is important, so anything you can add to enrich it is welcome. I reverted the edits you made only because you did not cite any sources for the text you changed. In fact, you left the citations in from the previous version that would actually seem to contradict what you said. I want to be clear, I'm not saying that the information you added is incorrect. I don't know if it's correct or not because you didn't cite sources. Take a moment and gather some citations and then make your edits, and make sure you pay attention to some of the details like removing citations for information you are overriding. Thanks again for taking time to improve the article! Sevey13 (talk) 21:44, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I consulted a lawyer friend of mine who has written peer review articles on this, and used her text. She's an authority. Alas, she did not include citations, and I'm in the middle of two books and don't have the bandwidth to run them down. Hence the old cites. :-{ However, the information is indeed incorrect, and refers to a case involving a gay man that is not at all germane. Sorry I don't have more. Thank you for all you do. Rikiwilchins (talk) 21:50, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

That's quite alright. I see you're also relatively new to editing, and you're doing it in good faith. A lot of this just comes with time. Especially when it comes to things like case law, a source really needs to be cited because it's generally not common knowledge.

I was the one who did a major overhaul of that article a few years ago, so I keep an eye on it. The source that I cited for that claim is behind a paywall, but I have a copy. Specifically, it was this text from [[Richard Green]] published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.

"In 2003, a male-to-female transsexual psychiatrist brought suit against her former employer under Title VII. She was in gender transition but advised to avoid wearing overly feminine clothing. She was referred to with male pronouns. The trial court found that she was not claiming protection as a transsexual. Rather, she was claiming to have been discriminated against for failure to ‘‘act like a man.’’ ‘‘Transsexuals are not genderless, they are either male or female and thus protected under title VII to the extent that they are discriminated against on the basis of sex’’ (Centiola v Potter, 2003)."

Based on what you said, though, I looked into it a bit more and you're correct, that's not what the Centola v Potter case was about at all. So that leads to the question of what the heck was the name of the court case Green was referring to? Because if it's from 2003, it would be earlier than the cases you mentioned. A brief look through Green's citations didn't turn anything up. I also notice that he apparently misspelled "Centola" in the peer-reviewed article, which is troubling. Unfortunately, Green is dead so I can't email him to ask him what's going on. I'm going to edit out the section altogether until someone, maybe one of us, has a chance to add the correct information. I'm not sure I have the bandwidth to do it immediately either.

Really good sleuthing on this one, Rikiwilchins.

Sevey13 (talk) 01:46, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

So I checked with my lawyer friend, Jillian Weiss, and she assures me this is the URL for the correct cite. All above my paygrade I'm afraid but hope it helps.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1454867 Rikiwilchins (talk) 14:36, 29 April 2023 (UTC)