User talk:Piotrus/Archive 5
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Poland 1945-1989
Wow. I haven't seen that since it was entitled "People's Republic of Poland," which was about six months to a year ago. I'm quite impressed with the quality and volume of work that you've put into it since then. It's already one of Wikipedia's most comprehensive national history surveys, which, as you can see by looking at scores of other history series, usually aren't the site's strong suit. So it'll reflect particularly well on Wikipedia on the main page... I'll give it another read and see if I can help resolve some of the objections. Thanks for the note. 172 03:45, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Gdansk -> Gdańsk
Hi! By a stupidity of mine I blocked the possibility to change Gdansk into Gdańsk (I created Gdańsk page myself and copied the contents of Gdansk...). Now it takes an administrator to change it. Halibutt advised me to contact you. Please help :-) --Akumiszcza 28 June 2005 11:58 (UTC)
- To preserve history of edits, it's better to move the page instead of copy the paste. However, if there alraedy is an article with old name (for example, a redirect) it must be deleted, beacuse move function works only if there is no page with the target name. As I am an admin, I will be happy to move stuff, just list exactly what should be moved to where, and make sure there are no objections at talk. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 28 June 2005 19:39 (UTC)
- Yes I know all that now. The problem with Gdańsk and Gdansk seems to be more complicated now, though. There is a discussion (illogical one, IMHO) going on whether to change its name or not. --Akumiszcza 28 June 2005 19:47 (UTC)
Medals Wikiportal
Since I noticed your interested in military medals, I wanted to let you know I created a Wikiportal about it. Located at User:Zscout370/ODM Portal, it is coordinate all users on articles associated with Orders, Decorations and Medals (OMD). All nations medals can be discussed. It mainly just has a listing of OMD articles on Peer Review, Featured articled candidates and those who becamed featured. Of course, I can add a listing for stub articles, request for pictures, requests for comments, and of course, votes for deletion (which should be rare). If you have any questions, just let me know. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 29 June 2005 02:20 (UTC)
PKWN
Hey. I created their article at Polish Committee of National Liberation. I welcome your input, since my knowledge about this article is zero. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 29 June 2005 23:19 (UTC)
- Should we include a section about the PKWN Manifest in the PKWN article? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 30 June 2005 23:04 (UTC)
Title change request
Piotrus, can you please change the title (and redirect) of the Camps_in_Poland_during_World_War_II as discussed in Talk:Camps_in_Poland_during_World_War_II to "Nazi Camps in Occupied Poland"? Thanks. --Ttyre 30 June 2005 13:05 (UTC)
Głosowanie
O! Nie zauważyłem. Dzięki za uwagę, zaraz poprawię. Halibutt June 30, 2005 13:22 (UTC)
Virtuti Militari
I was wondering what do you need for this article to be promoted to FA? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 30 June 2005 23:19 (UTC)
- I believe we can mention this medal: [1]. This is called the 1944 Polish WWII Medal of Merit on the Field of Glory - 2nd Class silver. It has the observe with a picture of the Virtuti Militari and the ribbon colours are reversed. Do you think we can do that? I also wish to show other devices, like rosettes and things like that. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 1 July 2005 19:18 (UTC)
History of Cape Colony from 1806 to 1870
Blah. Someone has listed History of Cape Colony from 1806 to 1870 on the featured article removal page. Would you take a look here? Thanks! Páll 4 July 2005 04:50 (UTC)
Lutosławski
Thanks for your helpful edits on the Lutosławski article. I made one or two small changes - I believe they further tighten the relevance of the article. I'm pleased you think it's nearly FAC material. Best regards. --RobertG ♬ talk 4 July 2005 13:28 (UTC)
- Let's talk about it, Piotrus. I explained in great detail here, and my edit summary referred anyone there too. --RobertG ♬ talk 4 July 2005 14:07 (UTC)
- Sorry, Piotrus, I'm still not convinced. Can you have another look at the peer review request where I've outlined my reservations? I am not disagreeing with you about any aspect of Polish history, but I do think that there are now some misleading bits in the Lutosławski article. I am not clear on the wiki etiquette here; would it be acceptable for me to move a precis of our discussion to the article's talk page to see if anyone else expresses a view? --RobertG ♬ talk 4 July 2005 15:36 (UTC)
- Sorry, again, Piotrus. Bear with me, I've still got lots to learn about Wikipedia! --RobertG ♬ talk 5 July 2005 08:12 (UTC)
Anti-Polonism
Niezla hipokryzja - po oddanych glosach w tym absurdalnym glosowaniu, bedzie mozna "naszych przyjaciol" poznac ;)--Witkacy 4 July 2005 21:57 (UTC)
- Nie wiem dlaczego mielibysmy zmieniac nazwe artykulu, skoro rasizm wobec innych narodowosci ma podobna? Masz racje z zimna krwia, trzeba rozbudowac artykul. Wiec proponuje by plan B byl skoncetrowaniem czasu, na dodawaniu antypolonizmow :)--Witkacy 4 July 2005 22:10 (UTC)
Polish Army
And again we have a lengthy voting on name issues - this time at Talk:Wojsko Polskie. Please join. Halibutt July 5, 2005 05:58 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link. Hm... when one sees "Wojsko Polskie", one knows immediately that it's Polish Army. It's good that it's not shortened to "Wojsko" because then english-speaking people wouldn't know if it refers to Polish Army, or to an army in general. By the way, how an english person would know that "Wojsko" means Army...? ;-) (the same with voivodship) --Wahwah 5 July 2005 10:36 (UTC)
Attacks by anon
Thanks, I appreciate knowing that. Jayjg (talk) 5 July 2005 16:27 (UTC)
Hi. Could you do me a favour and take a neutral look at Ethnic conflicts in western Poland? User:Szopen asked me to look at it, especially the section Brutality of the Prussian Regime, which he thinks is highly POV and should be deleted. Unfortunately, I have no time, and also I would rather avoid another dispute with Witkacy and some of the other editors there. Thank you very much -- Chris 73 Talk July 6, 2005 06:20 (UTC)
Poland 1945-1989
I've done some more work to hopefully address some of the NPOV objections to the FA. Let me know if you have any concerns. 172 6 July 2005 20:41 (UTC)
I might be wrong, but I also consider satellite state to be correct usage-- I mean, when threat of invasion comes up in negotiations with the hegemonic power during transfers of power, as in 1956, I think that it's safe to call a country a satellite state. At the same time, IMO it should be avoided in the intro of this particular article because it might help resolve some of the stronger NPOV objections to the FAC, such as Ruy's. Just to play devil's advocate, someone could object to the term by pointing out that it's strongly associated with the Cold War, as it's hardly ever used in reference to U.S.-backed regimes in Latin America while at the same it's used ubiquitously to refer to Soviet allies. 172 6 July 2005 20:59 (UTC)
Elections
I saw your edit summary, and I'll take your word for it on the elections. I wasn't aware that there are primary sources indicating that the Communists would have lost the elections without rigging them and that they knew it. (All credible observers knew that they were rigged from day one, of course. But there are other reasons to rig elections. And claims about 'who knew and thought what when' are always difficult to make in history without extensive evidence from primary sources.) I suspected that that was the case, but I wasn't sure that that could be verified indisputably through the primary sources required to make such a claim. Thanks for looking into this matter.172 8 July 2005 10:34 (UTC)
A project Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine created by several editors is now live. I am sure this topic is of interest to you. Cheers, --Irpen July 8, 2005 22:07 (UTC)
Problem
Hi, Piotr. Please see Witkacy's recent involvement with the wiki articles censorship and Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I think it may be a good idea if you could discuss the situation with him. I'm confident that your involvement would be much appreciated by all involved parties. Thank you. HKT 8 July 2005 22:59 (UTC)
- :) Niektorzy ludzie to maja tupet.. Ten sam co bronil Barona Munchausena herbu Pilawa, teraz dolaczyl do grupki ludzi ktorzy wyszukujac argumenty z kosmosu, staraja sie skasowal artykul o rasizmie wobec Polakow... Tak jak mowilem, wylaniaja sie przyjaciele ;) --Witkacy 9 July 2005 00:02 (UTC)
A month?!
Oh my, I would never tell it's a month already. You were right, it's highly addictive and time-consuming. Moreover, I have a feeling that I did nothing constructive so far and only spend lots of time on discussions and even more on reading, not to write anything which would be incorrect. In the meantime, the list of my favourites in the Explorer browser became ten times longer and if before I had only very little time for my private life, now I have none and even start to steal some good part from my working hours. Then, I cannot tell if I like it because it's already beyond my free choice or will. I think it's just something which cannot be helped. Anyhow, I'm really glad to be a part of 'the team' and I really think that you're doing a very good job. BTW I just copied some of your translation of Davies to the Anti-Semitism talk and proposed to move the Polish section to the History of Jews in Poland. --SylwiaS 8 July 2005 23:03 (UTC)
Oh, I do use it. It's great for searching. But it doesn't work with some Yahoo tools, so Explorer is still my primary browser. :) --SylwiaS 9 July 2005 11:58 (UTC)
Help
Can you and others help fix Fife's objections to the article. I fixed some already, mainly those that did not require much research. If you need anything else, just let me know. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:57, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Operation Wisła
Piotr, I'd like to add to the article Operation Wisla, but it's still under the old name. Shouldn't it be moved to the proper place first? The article doesn't exist now. --SylwiaS 21:14, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Oh, to chyba tylko problem z moją nieznajomością Wiki. Ze strony UPA jest czerwony link to Operation Wisla, ale artykułu nie ma, więc rozumiem, że wystarczy stworzyć artykuł pod nową nazwą i zmienić nazwę linku? --SylwiaS 21:28, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Yep... --Ttyre 22:10, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Zbieram materiały i oczywiście mam tremę, więc potrzebuję trochę czasu, żeby napisać choć początkową część a później do niej dodawać. Muszę też pojechać do Empiku i kupić Daviesa, bo nie mogę wiecznie polegać tylko na Twoich cytatach :) Mam nadzieję nie wywołać wielkiej awantury, więc spróbuję napisać o tym możliwie bez emocji i skupić się na faktach. Już mam pewne niejasności, np. jaki był udział WP, a jaki NKWD. Znalazłam informację, że część NKWD-owców była przebrana w nasze mundury. Mam też pytania: 1. Jak stworzyć user sandbox, taki jak Witkacy ma na antypolonizmy? Próbowałam z normalnego sandboxu, ale nie działa. 2. Na jakich źródłach mogę się oprzeć? Czy jest jakiś przepis, że powinnam skorzystać np. z dwóch książek, czy można opierać się na informacjach z internetu? Tzn. rozumiem, że mogę oprzeć się na danych ze strony IPN-u, ale czy na prywatnych stronach również, albo np. Łemków? 3. Jak się robi redirecty? --SylwiaS 16:39, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Dzięki za informacje. Prawdziwe życie na chwilę mnie dopadło, ale myślę, że w weekend uda mi się wreszcie wziąć do pracy. Na medal ten artukuł na pewno nie będzie, bo jeśli się tak nastawię, to nigdy nie skończę. Używam głównie Yahoo, ale miałam też gdzieś gg, więc jak znajdę to się odezwę. (Używasz gg czy tlen?). Jak jest z prawami do zdjęć z polskich muzeów, jeśli wiszą na ich stronach? --SylwiaS 21:09, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
stub dla pani profesor ;) --SylwiaS 02:09, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Nie no, pewnie, co z tego, ze siedzialam do 5 rano, zeby zrobic tysiace redirectow? Skoro nie zrobilam kategorii, to i tak sie nie liczy ;-). Ok, nie wiedzialam jak sie je robi, ale obejrzalam sobie jak Ty je zrobiles, wiec chyba juz wiem. Dodam referencje i artykul rozbuduje, na razie probowalam zrobic troche wiecej niz stub, zeby nie bylo zaraz awantury, ze czegos brakuje, bo zakladam, ze temat jest kontrowersyjny. :) --SylwiaS 11:56, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Gdzie się linkuje numer ISSN? --SylwiaS 16:13, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Promoted
Raul654 promoted the article History of Poland (1945-1989) to featured status. See [2]. Congrats. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:25, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Write for PolBlog?
Hello Piotrus...I was amazed at how much you are giving to the wikipedia project. I live in wa-wa and edit a polish news blog in english called polblog.pl...we are in need of a few polbloggers to write articles about polish news (in english) there...let me know what you think and if you can help...thanks, jordan seidel
- Tnx. I do encourage the 'new media' projects, but what's wrong with Polish Wikinews? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 08:50, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
- there is no problem with wiki news..but from what i see the polish news is in polish only, PolBlog is for an english speaking community -- it's in english...
Campaigning for votes
Piotrus, is there a wiki policy about campaigning for a specific outcome of VfD on articles' discussion page? Anon twice (after my delete) placed such an 'ad'. See: Talk:Anti-Semitism#Anti-Semitism_in_Poland. --Ttyre 04:09, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
- You can talk about a VFD, but I am not sure about asking for a certain outcome. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:30, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
- I wouldn't delete it myself, and I'd say that AS page is relevant to this article and voting. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 08:55, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Revert
I understand your temptation to change drastically Anti-Semitism in Poland article, however, it is very unfair for those who have already voted. Also, I don't think we have a consensus on what to do with national subsections in Anti-Semitism (Poland has already 2 sections there). My old proposal was to move them to existing pages to reduce redundancy rather than create new national (A-S in a country) entities. Also, it appears to be much more interest in creating material on A-S in a few selected countres rather than to evenhandadly treat the issue (see for instance material on A-S in Romania, Hungary, Austria, etc). --Ttyre 11:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
- Could you consider changing your Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Anti-Semitism in Poland Keep if vote to Delete with explanation? Your comments create a new wave of unnecessary comments. Why don't you want to merge this material into History of the Jews in Poland? --Ttyre 18:51, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Matejko
To obraz Matejki - znalazlem go pod nazwa: "Konstytucja 3 Maja. Sejm Czteroletni. Komisja edukacyjna. Rozbiór. R.P. 1795. 1889. Olej na płótnie. Muzeum Narodowe, Warszawa - depozyt w Zamku Królewskim w Warszawie."--Witkacy 17:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
# of articles in a category
Hey Piotrus, you asked where I got the # "60" for the number of articles in a category. See discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria. I misremembered a discussion about how many articles are required before the creation of a stub is considered as a discussion about how many articles are required before a category is. Tomer TALK 17:20, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Mapy księstwa Warszawskiego
..pochodzą z legalnych zrodeł biblioteki kongresu i maja licencje publiczna. Ja po prostu wycialem z mapy to co mnie interesuje. Pozdrawaim. Cautious 19:35, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I co mam zrobic? Przeciez te mapy sa perfekcyjnie legalne! Cautious 19:52, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Two awards for you
Well-deserved are they indeed. Congrats! Halibutt 17:22, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
Wiktacy's deletions at Anti-Polonism
Would you mind taking a look at Wiktacy's deletions of content at Anti-Polonism, and my comments regarding that in Talk: there? Your opinion would be welcome. Jayjg (talk) 21:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
yes, but - my personal opinion - saying that someday we will create a computer that will outstand all human brains, it´s rather doomsday like. Now for the specific discussion on both articles, I´ll add there.--Alexandre Van de Sande 16:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
C.f. American Old West
I had never heard of Dzikie Pola. I thought it was a silly mistake, as if someone had submitted something about Elvis Presley to the article. While it's doubtless valid, shouldn't it be expanded to describe its "Wild West" self?
Russian tsarinas
regarding the names of tsarinas of Russia: if from abroad, they changed their first name, such as Wilhelmina became Natalia Alexeievna, etc. Now, Wikipedia has certain rules that the so-called consort name is not to be used, because of several persons being e.g Empress Maria Fedorovna. And that a pre-marital name should be used. But I feel that it is acceptable to make a formulation "Natalia Alexeievna of Darmstadt" (the "of Darmstadt" being for disambiguation purposes) instead of using "Wilhelmina of Darmstadt". Now, as there are plenty of Germanist and anglicist opinions, I would like to know some of international opinion. In other words, I am asking you to think whether from the perspective of non-Russian Slavonic, (1) would it be acceptable to say "Natalia Alexeievna of Darmstadt" and (2) would that be better or worse than "Wilhelmina of Darmstadt". 62.78.105.68 08:47, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
- Dear anon. As I am a Pole, my perespective is also quite Slavonic. I'd recommend you ask on Talk:Tsar and also check Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(names_and_titles). Please register if you want to discuss it further or make substantial edits. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 09:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Voting results
Piotrus, can you please take a look at results of Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Anti-Semitism in Poland? I don't agree with the conclusion of the admin who in a reckless way counted the votes. --Ttyre 13:04, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Please take a look: User_talk:Woohookitty#No_concensus.3F. --Ttyre 15:19, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Piotrus, with User:Woohookitty reverting his vote tabulation, could you find/recommend another admin to do it? --Ttyre 17:45, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Arbitration case - final decision
A decision has been reached in the arbitration case relating to Zivinbudas. He has been banned from Wikipedia for one year. Please see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zivinbudas#Final decision for further details and the full decision. -- sannse (talk) 15:49, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
History of the Jews in Poland
In the interest of getting this to a featured article, I wanted to know what was left to do. I had no plans to further subdivide, as we are now in a more acceptable range. I will fix the footnotes, though... --Goodoldpolonius2 03:33, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
You might want to...
...take a look at this. User:Piotruś/ it's probably harmless but I'll leave any action to your discretion. -JCarriker 14:07, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
- I came across it on Recent changes with the logged in users hid, and the setting turned to view user pages only. -JCarriker 23:23, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
- This person is not a user, since if it was, you would have seen a user contributions page. However, I did not see anything. I suggest a speedy delete for the page. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 08:09, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
Hero of Ukraine Peer Review
You said "I have a feeling you like medals :)." Yes, I do. I know the history of the medal will be short, so it will not be covered in much detail. I am trying to find a full list of people who got it, but as I mentioned, if they were just mentioned on President Kuchma's website, now belonging to Yushchenko, they were deleted. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 08:12, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
Potsdam Conference
Hello Piotrus!
Maybe you could tell me why you delete my contributions. Please take a look on the discussion site there.
I have given reasons there and written "my" source: Alfred-Maurice de Zayas. He is an US-american and among other thins he is "UN High Commissioner of Human Rights".
Which are your sources? The polish communists or nationalists?
Wikiferdi
Hello Piotrus!
Thank you for your answers and explinations. Sorry, I don´t want to offend anybody. But this was just a question. A question which contains some truth. Because to call the areas like Silesia "Regained Territories" is a main subject of polish communists or nationalists. In my (not only my) opinion this is an ideology which doesn´t correspond to the historical facts. So it offends me to read such things in Wikipedia!
To call territories which hadn´t been polish for over 700 years (and also before there wasn´t a comprhension of nationalities like today or with the beginning of the 20th century) "regained" seems clearly to be anachronous. Anyway, the expulsion of a people which had lived there for so long is an atrocity which was against human and people rights already in that time. So the polish, russian, czech ... people did the same for what the german Nazi were accused on the Nuremberg trial (at the same time). Moreover, to blame the Allies for legislating the expulsion of this germans I consider insolent. The Potsdam Conference explicitly acted on the background of Germany in the borders of 31st of December 1937. Silesia etc. still were considered as part of Germany just put under polish administration. Nobody allowed an "expulsion" of this people. And again: There wasn´t anything to allow - because expulsion was against the law - already in that time.
Wikiferdi
Anonimowy pokrzywdzony wypedzony
wzialem artykul pod obserwowane, w razie czego go cofne.--Witkacy 15:48, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
- Wiem, pare osob patrzy mi na rece i tylko czeka az sie przy czyms potkne - dlatego ze stoperem sprawdzam ile razy revertuje ;)
- Ogolnie zastanawiam sie nas stworzeniem "articles needing attention" w pl kanciapie, cos w stylu "to do list" - i wstawiac w nim artykuly ktore sa czesto wandalizowane, z anty-Polska propaganda lub przypadki jak Auschwitz trial. Co o tym sadzisz?--Witkacy 17:43, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
Antiantipolonistic conspiratorialism
I do not believe there is some global conspiracy, I think there are a few people whose views are so detached from reality that their editing is useless, and whose persistence is admirable, albeit misdirected. Nothing I said was meant to impugn the good work you and others have done, but as a result of the whole fiasco wrt the Anti-Polonism VfD and the unspeakable nonsense surrounding the naming of Gdańsk, and the ridiculous assertions surrounding the naming of the Wojsko Polskie article, I have come to realize that there are POV-pushers who gravitate to Poland-related articles, and get their way more often than not when it comes to some such articles. IMHO, you have been, despite the fact that you've named yourself Proconsul, one of the few consistently reasonable voices in this whole dispicable saga. Regards, Tomer TALK 19:38, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
I have to agree; certain editors, and one in particular, have really damaged the quality of almost every article they have touched (generally Poland-related topics). Your good work is negatively impacted by this. Jayjg (talk) 21:13, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
Mam wrazenie
Ze owy admin naduzywa swoich praw [5] mogl bys na to zerknac?--Witkacy 21:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Moved you announcement to a different board
Hi, just to let you know that I moved the request you posted at portal's talk page to a separate board at the same portal Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board. It's only to keep things more consistent since portal's talk is usually used to discuss the portal itself and two boards, one for new article announcements and another for general announcements are created and linked to portal's fronpage. I will take a look at your link later. Thanks! --Irpen 20:42, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
- About this announcement, I am on board willing to help you. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:40, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
I believe that's the picture you've been searching for?? --Ghirlandajo 14:38, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
Domeyko
- 1. Nie widze powodu by widnialy tam tlumaczenie jego nazwiska, chyba ze we wszystkich artykulach Polakow potrzebne sa tlumeczenia nazwisk w jezyku bialoruskim, litewskim lub rosyjskim?
- 2. Ktore przydatne informacje? Domeyko sie urodzil juz po rozbiorach. Informacja o Puszkinie jest zbedna.
- 3. To artykul o zyciu Domejki a nie slownik.
- 4. Jezeli uwazasz ze Domejko wychowal sie w kulturze Rzplitej i byl nakowcem nie Polskim a Rzplitej, podaj zrodlo ktore by to potwierdzilo.
- 5. owe informacje byly dodane przez Partizanasa ktory krotko pozniej znikl (czyjas pacynka) [6]
- 6. W tym momencie Ty przesadzasz.
Aha, jesli nie znajdziesz zrodla ktore potwierdzi ze byl "polsko-litewskim" naukowcem, zrewertuj strone, bo juz ktos wskoczyl na Twoj pociag...--Witkacy 15:04, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
--Witkacy 14:56, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello Piotrus,
take a look on the talk about history of Poland!
For you the history about Silesia is a grey area because the communists ... after WWII demolished the German culture there. As I said Upper Silesia had a Polish-speaking minority, Lower Silesia a Polish-Speaking minority was nigligible. Please, read my texts exactly and don´t distort! Not the expelled Germans assaulted the Polish people. This had been the German soldiers, the Gestapo, the SS ... Well, I understand, it would be nicer for the Polish concience to have expelled guilty people - but the German expellees were mainly innocent. The Soldiers ... were fallen in the war or they were prisoners of war. The expelled Germans were mainly women, children, elderly. Well I have the impression you don´t have much knowledge about Germany in times of Hitler. Here a crash course: Hitler was Austrian from the frontier to Germany. He chose Munich to live. He fought in the WWI for the Germans. Maybe he went totally mad during this time (beginning of "modern warfare" - mustard gas ...). The Nazi party was founded in Bavaria. But in Silesia, there was one of the most important christian anti-Fascist center: The "Kreisauer Kreis" (P. Alfred Delp SJ ...). My opinion is, that you shouldn´t generalize people. In each people there are perpetrators and victims.
Wikiferdi
Hello Piotrus,
I have read your answers but I have the impression that you evade some of my questions. Well I´ll read it closer and very calmly.
But let me say one thing: If somebody does things (atrocities) which he is ordered by others he is still responsible for what he does. If it weren´t like this the Germans Soldiers, Gestapo, SS etc. could say that they just performed what Hitler and the Nazi dictatorship had ordered. (The Nazi party didn´t have the majority of the poll at all in the last free elections.)
That´s it how your statements sound to me. Polish people did just what all the Allies told them - and so they weren´t responsible for what happend - or at least less responsible.
However, I know from books of Mr. de Zayas that Polish and especially Czechoslovakian politicians (Beneš - Czechoslovakia was quite a new state with a large German minority) - and not Stalin (although Stalin was happy about this form of keeping "his" territories) asked the Allies for allowance of "transfering" "their foreign citizens" - "ethnic cleansing" was clearly a method of "creating homogenous new states" in that time (Hitler had used it excessively) - for that the people may live in peace (also for Hitler was this a reason; everybody has an own idea of "peace"). But the reality had shown that more or less they never came about peace. So nowadays we should have learned from the history. Because some people not, in Berlin (and I hope also in other cities) there will be built a "Center against expulsions" - to sensitize the public about the horror of ethnic cleansing, before and today.
Wikiferdi 16:28, 29 Jul 2005 (UTC)
Battle of Kłuszyn and other names
Hi there, Piotrus! I read your Polish-Muscovite War article and found that many names of Russian people and places are given in their Polish version. E.g., Battle of Kłuszyn took place near the village of Klushino (Smolensk Oblast), but the name of the article has Kłuszyn in it. Why so? Could you change it to Battle of Klushino? I believe that Battle of Kłuszyn should be a redirect to Battle of Klushino (with all the contents moved from one to another). KNewman 18:37, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
the nonsense continues
(spamming you, since you also participated in the discussion:) The deleted-per-VfD Polish Wikipedians' Black Book, which was resurrected at User:Halibutt/Black Book has, since Jimbo Wales commented on the first resurrection's talk page, been resurrected as User:Halibutt/Black book. Despite my request for clarification on the talk page there, I have received nothing but accusations of vandalism from a troll who has since been banned for a week for repeated personal attacks (against me and others). Any ideas for how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Tomer TALK 04:07, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
- I "raise the dead", as you say, because my name is listed there, at User:Halibutt/Black book. I have raised my objections at User talk:Halibutt/Black book but have, as yet, received no response. I raise the issue because, if there is a genuine transgression I have committed, I would like to had it brought to my attention. If there is none, I would like my name removed from this smear campaign. I realize User:Irpen has removed that unforgivable TROLL Witkacy's listing me there (see this edit, but my name was allowed by the overlords of Polish en:WP (among whose number I count you) to remain there for nearly a month without comment. Read my comments on the talk page. Frankly, I fail to understand what you think is either so unreasonable or so incomprehensible (as the case may be) about my request... Tomer TALK 11:41, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
Mapki
Od czwartku znowu mam komputer, choć przy grafice ledwie dycha (ta strona, którą mi poleciłeś, otwierała się chyba ze dwadzieścia minut... chyba jej autor zapomniał o tym, by ją jakoś podzielić...). Tak czy siak - mogę przygotować nowe mapki, ale będę potrzebował trochę pomocy. Gdzie, na przykład, jest to całe "Carowo Zajmiszcze"? Gdzie są Nowodziewicze Pola?
W ogóle, jakie bitwy zaznaczyć? Smoleńsk, Moskwę (po dwakroć), Kłuszyn i..? Czy zaznaczać też bitwy ze Szwecją? Kampanię mołdawską? A może na to zrobić osobne mapki? Halibutt 11:47, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
- Carowo Zajmiszcze to był warowny obóz Szujskiego, pod którym toczyły się walki. Obecnie w Campaignboksie występuje jako Tsarovo. Ale nie chodzi mi tylko o nazwy, ale o geografię. Nie mam pojęcia gdzie szukać tych miejsc, więc nie mogę ich zaznaczyć. A nie mam w domu odpowiednio dokładnej mapy Wschodu. Samo robienie mapek to teraz pikuś, wystarczy pododawać miejsca i legendę. W sumie jakieś pół godziny roboty. Ale do tego muszę znać położenie miejsc, które mam zaznaczyć....
- Wstępny szkic wygląda tak:
- Wstępny szkic wygląda tak:
![[3]](http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1786.jpg){kind=link}
Ok, spróbuję coś zrobić z tą legendą, ale nie wiem gdzie ją wcisnąć. Moskwa jest zaznaczona (pod spodem :) ), ale zaiste jej nie widać... Na myśl przychodzi mi tylko Bałtyk, ale wtedy legenda zasłoni część Pomorza... Nie wiem, pomyślę nad tym. Halibutt 08:39, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
the review you requested
I finished the translation and it is in your sanbox. Regards, --Irpen 08:15, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
Your request for help
Hi there, Piotrus! You said you needed help with some of the Russian locations for the map you're doing. What are those locations? Tsarovo is actually Tsaryovo Zaymische (Царёво Займище) near Mozhaisk. Please, drop me a line, and I'll see what I can do. Cheers. KNewman 22:09, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
Kolega
Kolega Wikifredi rozszerza aktywnosc Oder-Neisse line, Silesia, Recovered Territories--Witkacy 15:39, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- Moze nie zwrociles uwagi, ale jeszcze miech i przegonie Cie w editach :) FA status mnie nie interesuje, ja tworze tylko podwozia do przyszlych samochodow - co to Thomka, nie sadze by byl strasznie anty-polski, ale przesadzil ze swoja wypowiedzial wobec Malobo. (i tu poza rola sprzatacza i robotnika, wchodze na pole dozorcy). Co do Bdell555 - nie lubie pacynek (a ktos macha nim raczka). I jeszcze cos Piotrus, prosze nie pouczaj mnie, bo wiem co robie - a jest takie przyslowie ze jak nie mozesz pomoc, to nie przeszkadzaj (przyjmij to po przyjacielsku)--Witkacy 23:34, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
If your interested
I was nominated for this. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 16:06, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks. I promise I won't blow it. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 18:18, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
As someone who has recently added to the list of sample space opera backgrounds, I would like to invite you to participate in a discussion aimed at significantly trimming that list, currently standing at around 75 items (more than 50% of the article).Ken 01:18, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
Surprisingly enough, NPOV is supposed to be neutral. Your article had a clear anti-communist POV, and I fixed that with a bit of light editing. I don't need references for arguments against Kornai's theory because I haven't written any arguments against Kornai's theory. My changes to the article were quite minor. But just to humor you, here's a website with plenty of articles defending the planned economy against various critics: [8] Seriously, if you look at the difference between our two versions of the article, it's really tiny - just a few sentences. That should be easy to work out. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 11:36, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
- Please look over the website I gave you more closely. You will find that many of the articles (such as this one) are studies that first appeared in academic publications. This isn't just the personal website of some random guy, it's the website of a professor at the University of Glasgow. But, in any case, I haven't actually added any arguments to the shortage economy article, so I (honestly!) don't know what your point is. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't know what all the fuss is about. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 14:28, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
deleted Interwiki
Hallo Piotrus,
I deleted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Micha%C5%82_Wi%C5%9Bniowiecki_%281529-1584%29&diff=20371480&oldid=17897202 the .pl-Interwiki because I think the Articles are about different persons. One Micha%C5%82_Wi%C5%9Bniowiecki who lived in the 16th century and one Micha%C5%82_Wi%C5%9Bniowiecki who lived in the 17th century. --carolus 18:53, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
BRSM FAC
I have answered some of your objections. I added two categories and I have done some ilinking in the lead and in the article itself. Also, thanks for your kind words at the FAC page. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 00:08, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
Hello Piotrus, could you help (if you have the time?): Wikipedia:Pages_needing_translation_into_English#Modest_Romiszewski - Introvert talk 01:39, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Polish involvement in Potsdam
I removed the picture which somebody put here because Virgin Mary doesn´t bless any war! -- Wikiferdi 09:40, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Hello Piotrus,
here I will show you that you are wrong writing "the general policy was signed by Western Allies and Soviet Unions, with no Polish representative at Yalta or Potsdam, and later detailed agreements."
About your corrections on "Russia" or "Soviet Union": As you can see Prof. Gormly and others use the same expressions as I. The whole world often uses the term "Germany" for describing the atrocities of "Nazi-Germany" - which is actually different to Germany. Nazi-Germany was a dictatorship. Germany is a democracy. Something similar to "Russia" and "Soviet Union". I have the impression you are splitting hairs if you insist on such things. You should concentrate on the essential things.
Here the fact:
Poland was invited to the Potsdam Conference on Juli 24 (1945) to explain their POV (and stood there at least until Juli 29 cooperating with Stalin).
In the following I quote from
James L. Gormly: From Potsdam to the COLD WAR. Big Three Diplomacy 1945-1947. Scholarly Resources Inc. Delaware, 1990 (ISBN 0-8420-2334-8)
James L. Gormly was educated at the University of Arizona and the University of Conneticut, from which he received a Ph.D. in history. The author of numerous articles on U.S. foreign relations, in 1987 he completed The Collapse of the Grand Alliance, 1945-1948.
He is currently a professor of history at Washington and Jefferson College in Washington, Pennsylvania, where he chairs the department.
Quotations:
"The president (Truman) complained that there were now five occupation zones because the Soviets had turned over the area extending along the Oder and western Neisse to the Poles. This was in violation of the Yalta agreement. The president did not see how economic controls or reparations could operate if Germany was thus broken up." (p. 49)
"Churchill spoke strongly against giving the Poles control over an area in which some eight million Germans lived. Stalin insisted that the Germans had all fled and that the Poles were needed to fill the vacuum." (p. 50)
"On July 24 the Polish delegation arrived in Berlin, headed by Prime Minister Boleslaw Bierut and including Mikolajczyk and Foreign Minister Wincenty Rzymowksi. They consistently held to the position that the Oder and western Neisse rivers should be the frontier, and they vehemently argued their case before the foreign ministers, Churchill, and Truman, in turn." (p. 50)
The next day Churchill said to Stalin:
"The Poles are driving the Germans out of the Russian zone. That should not be done without considering its effect on the food supply and reparations. We are getting into a position where the Poles have food and coal, and we have the mass of (the) population thrown at us." (p.51)
"To the Soviets, reparations were more important than boundaries, and Stalin might have sold out the Poles if they had not so vociferously protested when, in spite of his 'illness', he consulted with them during the evening of July 29." (p.55f)
End of quotation
Well, I would say Germany and especially the expelled Germans had little to say about the expulsions. As Prof. Gormly writes, Poland was ensnarled in this dark chapter of postwar history. -- Wikiferdi 08:51, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
BoW - pic
Nie, raczej nie nominuję, bo reprodukcja nadal jest fatalna (ostrość diabli wzięli). Chyba będę się musiał tam wybrać z aparatem... Halibutt 09:45, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
Some time ago, you supported the nomination of American Old West at the COTW. I have now renominated it at the new US Collaboration. If you are still interested, you can support the article with your vote there!--Fenice 08:54, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
Max Weber
Shall i make a special article on Weber and German politics? I must first finish the book that i'm reading.--Daanschr 10:36, 15 August 2005 (UTC) + 82.139.82.46 (sorry forget to log in to many times)
I'm now reading that Weber was not anti-marxist. He has even visited the party congres of the SPD. He didn't believe in the socialist society though and was afraid that an economy dominated by the state would enslave the humans. But i don't know what Weber thought when communism came into being. That is in the end of the book. Weber was anti-aristocracy and tried to destroy the nobility in Germany.--Daanschr 13:16, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
1632verse
Holy Wikipedian! I'm linking my page on Assiti Shards series to yours on the 1632 series, and I also want to rearrange the latter page to make the 'Italian', 'Eastern Europe', 'British Isles' etc. themes more noticeable. Let's collaborate! Alba 17:54, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
US Collaboration of the month
You have voted for [[{{{1}}}]] on the USCOTM. It was selected to be this months's collaboration. You are invited to help to contribute in order to improve [[{{{1}}}]] in any way possible.
--Fenice 18:41, 16 August 2005 (UTC)