User talk:Indon/Archive6

Talk Archived

— Indon (reply) — 11:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, let's talk

Sorry for avoiding a discussion with you. I would argue that more information is provided in my templates than on the category pages because the template gives the order in which the Presidents & VPs served. I would also say that it's more convenient than the category and the List article because it doesn't require additional clicking from the reader. Is it absolutely essential? No, but it doesn't hurt things either. And as I'm sure you saw on the 3O page, the fact is that succession box + template is standard for such articles. Not to repeat myself endlessly, but if so many other countries have it, why not Indonesia? Biruitorul 00:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year to you too. While I realise that you generally only edit Indonesia-related pages, it's important to note that these pages don't exist in a vacuum; it's good for an encyclopedia to have a common style in articles dealing with a variety of countries. And it's not just a question of me succeeding in sticking them in there - I certainly didn't create all those templates (though a lot are indeed mine). Plus, if you look at my talk page, you'll see that Khoikhoi, an admin, has also expressed support for my position. So do think about it. Biruitorul 03:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, but you see, I like the succession box template too, as well as my own, and I don't think that together they create excess clutter. To be honest, I think mediation would be quite unnecessary. If you still don't think having both types in there is a good idea, rather than taking things to another level, let's just call off the discussion for a while, and we can talk things over later on. Biruitorul 07:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your message

I have put a suggest about tagging the WP on talk pages - I do hope its one aspect of the project that even if only one other person responds - it might just help tip the balance of untagged articles out there! SatuSuro 15:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Java disambig

Thanks for that - others kept putting it in see also and other - most annoying! SatuSuro 10:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Grammar

No, you are "mostly good" with grammar. But there are many things you are "always excellent" at, so no problem. Merbabu 11:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Persistent blog spammer

Hi Indon, there is someone who is persistently adding a link to a blog on Adam Air Flight 574. I'm current sitting on 3 reverts. Would you be able to continue the crusade? (Caniago 09:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

Thanks. Looks like the user account was just added for the purposes of adding the blog (Caniago 09:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

List of Volcanoes

Copy-Edit: I'm not finished yet :)

BP: I'm happy to let the Before Present reference stand, I'll get used to it - let's see what other people think.

PS: Happy New Year! Ben --Bwmodular 16:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

List of volcanoes in Indonesia FLC

It had at least four support votes, and it's been over ten days, so I went ahead and promoted it to featured list status. I've also added the featured star on your userpage if you don't mind. Michaelas10 (Talk) 19:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

CONGRATULATIONS SatuSuro 09:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Well done! Do featured lists get to appear on the front page? (Caniago 12:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC))

Well done Indon - lots of hard work but it really paid off. Ben --Bwmodular 13:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yup, very noice work indeed! Merbabu 13:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

NeXT FAC

The article has changed since your last comment on the FAC. Thanks. — Wackymacs 07:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

All citations have been fixed that you mentioned. Several non-notable links/articles/personal sites have been removed, and replaced with notable articles from journals and magazines. Please check the article again. Many thanks. — Wackymacs 17:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Indon/sandbox2

Hi Indon, looks like a good start. I've made some changes to simplify the structure and make it easier to navigate using the content summary table. You could already move the old page and put yours in its place. A few things that may be worthwhile including are: a section for news items, a section describing where to go for discussions/questions, and the assessment summary matrix. (Caniago 09:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC))

New Main Page

Good - better that its simpler - hey I've only got 59 more WP Indonesia tags to go to hit the 000!  :)) SatuSuro 10:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

But the tabulation - the table doesnt renew - simply. It might be after I have reached the target! SatuSuro 10:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Sudah - I think we are there! I think the servers/system take time to refresh on the count - I am not fully up with how it works - but we've cleared the 1,000 by now ! Still a lot to go yet! Belum persiap untuk assess 'total range of articles yet' - banyak di-dalam tempat aneh :( SatuSuro 13:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Matur nuwun - terima kasih - thanks - now for the next thousand! (maybe we need to have a very careful talk about whether the hundred of stubs ever need to star with a portal tag - imho - no stubs - only articles that are start or above should have one) SatuSuro 02:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

FAC/FAR Barnstar

... moved to User:Indon/Gifts. — Indon (reply) — 11:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Courtesy - mentioned your name on my talk page. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

V for Vendetta

I welcome your comments. However, due to the fact that this the V for Vendetta FARC is now in its second month, I ask that you keep very open communications with me and not close the review until we have had some time together to resolve the issues that you have flagged.--P-Chan 20:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to presume that means yes.--P-Chan 21:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Remember...

Please do not edit the user pages of other contributors without their approval or consent. It may be seen as vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please visit the sandbox. .V. 21:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Umm

That election world user? I really cannot remember anything about that - its very very weird - I am sure I would not put a WP Indonesia on a talk page or a user page. Very odd. It doesnt make sense. Anyways if the user show no sign of activity I think we ask an admin to do something about the account SatuSuro 07:08, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Please check my message at User talk Electionworld SatuSuro 07:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for identifying that! I wait for an explanation! SatuSuro 07:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice - I decided to remove any opportunity for further mistakes! I think i'm getting off now for a while :) ! SatuSuro 07:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW Indonesian bio stub looks excellent! SatuSuro 14:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I was cleaning up Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Templates. — Indon (reply) — 14:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

What would be really good would be templates for Indonesian politics stub (ie parties and individual politicians) and Indonesian culture stub (for a start gamelan and wayang related topics) - what do you think? SatuSuro 14:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that would be a good idea, but don't get too many specialized stubs? BTW, individual politicians can be categorized as bio stub, but culture is a good one. — Indon (reply) — 14:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

There's no problem if they dont happen at all or for a while - but just from the checking of stubs - the geographical area is going well - the music area is one which seems to be done by people who arent otherwsie seen in any other wp indonesia pages - they have eccentric referencing conventions (back to front) and a whole range of arts that have potential dab issues with words that they use for music things that could be ambiguous with other meanings in general indonesian usage. But I'll go into that later - not now! SatuSuro 14:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Okidoki. — Indon (reply) — 14:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Links

Hi Indon. I think many of your new links are fine. ie, like the technical terms in the Ecology section of Indonesia. I removed 1 or 2 though. By the way, do you know anything about linking to wikisource? I saw your link to the United Nations resolutions, and I found the actual text from the UN resolutions [1], [2], [3]. I wonder if we can link to those? Sorry, i forgot to reply about the photo. From memory, the village in the photo is Senggarang in Pulau Bintan. I went there in 1997. Orang Laut? 'sea people'? Maybe. Merbabu 12:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• Yah, sorry for that. I should have known about WP:CONTEXT (usually I rejected that kind of things). It was just this tool: [4] is so neat.
• Linking to wiksource: here's for inline United Nations Security Council Resolution 30 link or this {{wikisource}} template for a small infobox to Wikisource (see WP:SIS#Wikisource).
• I added the picture in Orang Laut article, assuming that it is their village.

— Indon (reply) — 12:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice Name

Hey, Mate! I was a bit surprised. I think you picked a real nice name -lol- ;)). I'm from Indonesia too.--I am Chornee Fixmanius 14:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I don't know if I can, but I will try.--I am Chornee Fixmanius 16:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Assesment Project

No sweat! --Calupict! Speak to me 12:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Do we really want portal tags on the hundreds of low status stubs? SatuSuro 13:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

hmm - It's just more links in the web. Does it do harm? Merbabu 13:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It's okay SatuSuro, I think. Some kind of promotional link to the portal. — Indon (reply) — 13:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with that at all - I just think unassessed stubs should not get portal links - as they are potentially marginal stubs - a large number of the ones that I have tagged are very limited inscope and information. I think that assessed articles are good advertisements for the portal and the project. I think we should put this up on the project page about this - do you both agree with this in principle? SatuSuro 13:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

All right then, I'll ask Calupict to link only non-stub articles. — Indon (reply) — 13:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

As long as it seems sensible - there are hundreds of stubs that really need careful consideration later - as to what the project can or cannot do with them SatuSuro 13:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I suspect it would a very auspicious time to create a first archive for the WP I project talk page ;-) SatuSuro 14:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I've just setup automatic archiving of this page. Hopefully it should work without further intervention. (Caniago 15:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC))

Ah, thank you. I was still trying to look what auspicious is :o). — Indon (reply) — 15:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Done and done. --Calupict! Speak to me 05:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

ha ha

[5] - he was poor seller in Semarang (Simpang Lima?). Perhaps everyone will ask who is that? Must be famous. ;)But, it looks really good. Really Indonesian! PS, i put some new pics in Indonesia. Merbabu 12:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

That's why. Since everyone will ask, "who is he?", then he is a stub Indonesian man. :-)) Per WP:STUB, "A stub is an article (or anything) that is too short to provide encyclopedic coverage of the subject, but not so short as to provide no useful information." Re new image, yes, I notice that. Ethnologue maps from U.Texas? I'm afraid it's a bit old, but it's okay. — Indon (reply) — 12:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I like the new nutmeg picture. The new maps need a note in their descriptions indicating that they represent data from the 197x's. With the massive logging of forests and the transmigration program the picture has significantly changed. Maybe we can find more recent copyrighted maps and Indon can get his map tracing tools out ;-) (Caniago 13:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC))

he he - i was hoping no-one would notice their age. There was a 3rd map of the economy but i thought 1972 was just way too old for an economic map. A nice idea though that could be copied. Given that I actually changed all the 1972 spelling we could probably update the colors on those maps as needed - ie, the forests of kalimantan. I am not sure how much transmigrasi would have changed things - perhaps in Papua only. like that contentious religions map, the majorites are probably still intact. Merbabu 08:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I found a good reliable & uptodate map for the forest here: [6] Let me see what I can do. — Indon (reply) — 10:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding population, I think things have changed a lot. Here are the 2000 census figures, listing provinces outside of Java with significant Javanese populations...

• Aceh Acehnese 50%, Javanese 16%
• Bengkulu Javanese 22%, Rejang, 21%, Serawai 18%
• Jambi Malay 38%, Javanese 28%, Kerinci 11%
• Kalimantan Selatan Banjarese 76%, Javanese 13%
• Kalimantan Tengah Banjarese 24%, Javanese 18%, Ngaju 18%
• Kalimantan Timur Javanese 30%, Buginese 18%, Banjarese 14%
• Lampung Javanese 62%
• Papua Javanese 12%
• Riau Malay 38%, Javanese 25%, Minangkabau 11%
• Sumatera Selatan Malay 31%, Javanese 27%
• Sumatera Utara Batak 42%, Javanese 32%

(Caniago 10:40, 11 January 2007 (UTC))

Where I have been

I have been to the most terrifying month I've ever had. Without internet whatsoever. Btw, hi! Imoeng 13:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah it seems fine. I also want to be just a so-so contributor, hehe. Btw, wish me good luck for next week's final exams. Cheers -- Imoeng 14:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Indonesia now GA

I think it was the nutmeg picture that won it. ;) Reply on project noticeboard. Merbabu 13:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Congrats, man! One step to FA, the ultimate goal of the project. — Indon (reply) — 13:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

And congrats to you too. You did a lot of work, and much of what i did was inspired by you on other articles! Re your thoughts on FA. I agree. It needs some thought and comparison. But i really think we have a good basis. It's hard to predict. I think it might even get it - on the other hand, it could get a really hard time. I was just saying to Imoeng that I am sure reviewers just want more on terrorism, corruption, etc. Or maybe, people will agree that the article actually covers those "issues" well. Who knows? I just hope somebody who has nothing to do with it doesn't just unilaterally nominate it like U2 recently. What do you think could be improved? Maybe the drawings. I still think culture is not strong. Also, maybe geography but it is already long. History is great. And I think Issues is good. I like Economy but others may not (I am bias on that section)

As for comparison, Check out India and Australia. THey are quite short in total. Here is a word count comparison: [7]. ("Indonesia2") is the current version.

Merbabu 13:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Since the next target is FA, I'm going to see what the weakest links are. I think by letting the article rests for a while is a good idea. It is always a good strategy to come back to the article later after a long pause in which you will have a fresh view again. (I'm starting now again with Bandung). — Indon (reply) — 14:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Book resources

Hi - if you would rather have the resource guide oriented towards online sources only thats fine - I have no problems with that at all.

As for indicating any books - the selection is automatically and specifically limited - have no fear - jangan kwatir! - I know of about 12 separate guide books I will eventually write an article about much later - the 2 mentioned are the most common among tourists and backpackers - and if you see my item on merbabus talk page - I am about to start checking against an Indonesian Handbook from the late 1980's - my $50 Lonely Planet edition with a 2007 date on it - against our project list - to make sure there are no glaring omissions in the range of articles in the WPI. Please be reassured - when I add a book to further reading in an article - or to something like the resources guide - I usually know about 6x times the references that I actually put up - but you must be careful - an old person like me could have read your talk item as if you have a problem with books - that would never do!  :) Thats my $50 Australia worth! SatuSuro 13:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it's okay for me. I was just reminding. I believe you, the book is highly qualitatively reliable guide. ;-) Anyway, thanks for adding more resources. — Indon (reply) — 13:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

But - maybe it would be a good idea to keep it book free - should we keep it as an online guide ? SatuSuro 13:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

No, we don't have to. If the book is offline, then it is okay. Actually, I'm a bit opposing of online websites as sources. I am a nitpicking person for online sources during FAC/FAR/GA reviews. — Indon (reply) — 13:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Two FARs

Hi Indon. Thanks for your thoughtful reviews at FAR. On the %*&^$*% two-month old V for Vendetta review (film), I'm trying to force compromise(s). Are any of your concerns addressed? I removed that BBC source myself. I'm going to close the Palladian architecture review unless new concerns come up suddenly; it's received some cites. Marskell 04:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Indon, I'm quite disturbed about what happened there. I know I'm powerless to change it, but I do hope you know I think you are one of our top reviewers, and realize how much I appreciate your work. Please don't be chased off by people playing politics. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

No, don't worry, Sandy. I said I'm off from that particular FAR process (the Palladium), not the whole process. I'm not going to retreat only by some cheap politics. I still want to review some, if I know something I can say so. I'll be back, but my mood now is on editing (my WP cycle is between editing and reviewing ;-). Thanks for asking. — Indon (reply) — 08:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

"No retreat!" Good attitude for FAR :). Marskell 21:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Bandung

Yeah - i think you should re-write it. Give it the famous "Indon treatment". It is very poor quality currently - particularly the 2nd half. Merbabu 10:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No?!? You wrote it? lol. I would not have guessed that. whoops. I meant the Indon treatment like Borobudur, Tambora, Volcano list, and Toraja. Merbabu 11:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Portal

I just repasted last week's into the week 3 again. I'll update it later tonight when I have time.Merbabu 20:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Island

ok, I'm finished for the moment. Will discuss a few things about the template later. (Caniago 10:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC))

I've made a few more changes: (1) removed "island" from the name presentation to allow the template to be used for archipelagos as well as islands - see Maluku Islands (2) changed the "island group" field to "archipelago" (3) made the demographics header conditional on the population field.

I think the template is now pretty close to ready. One issue I still have is whether the largest city should be based upon area or population. I would have thought that population is more relevant? (Caniago 06:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Ok. Out of interest I did a search on Google for the term "Largest city", and look at how they ranked the cities. For the pages listed on the first page of results, they all ranked the cities by population. There was one site which also had ranks available by size, but their primary ranking was by population. I think having a largest city for each country is best. (Caniago 10:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

I think people are most interested in how many people are packed into and living in one place - the mass of people rather than how much land is used, since city boundaries can often be extended as necessary. Density is interesting to tell how comfortable they might be, but you can get an idea from the overall island density figure. (Caniago 10:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Balikpapan

Wah maaf sekali lagi saya tak mau meganggu tentang tempat itu - tetapi saya lihat enam belas edit dari sini - wah! SatuSuro 11:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Saya kwatir tentang ratus- ratus stub indonesia geo stub belum assessed - malu sekali! SatuSuro 11:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yah di Australia ada banyak orang aneh, lebih banyak gila, dan kadang kadang ada orang yang lebih pintar seperti michael and merbabu ya? :) SatuSuro 11:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I think my Indonesian is just good enough to understand the last part. You called me a mud slinger, right? :-) (Caniago 12:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Now, I don't understand the last part and got this definition (I even cannot write that definition here ;-). — Indon (reply) — 12:17, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

How about [[8]]; just joking anyway. We should all start speaking Aussie slang on your talk page one day and see if you can work out the meaning :-) (Caniago 12:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Hahah - you'd need a macquarie dictionary of australian english for that !SatuSuro 13:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Shall I create Indo Aussie, Minang Aussie, Java Aussie or Malay Aussie articles, to compete with X Malay articles? :-)) — Indon (reply) — 13:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm waiting for the Malay-Malay article, and the "Jesus (Malay)" article :-) (Caniago 13:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Interstate 295 (Delaware-New Jersey)

Hi there. I'm the one who nominated the article on Interstate 295 for GA status. I'm sure there are a few reasons why it doesn't make the cut, but I don't think the two you gave are valid. The "Future developments" section is certainly encyclopedic fact; it discusses two projects that are going to happen, and are well cited with information from the respective Departments of Transportation.

Also, I think converting the exit list to a bulleted/numbered list and/or removing the minor junctions – while certainly would make the article more concise – would cause the list to lose all meaning. The current format of the list is one of the few that adheres to a consensus-derived guideline present at WP:IH/ELG.

I'll probably put the article up for peer review or good article review in the near future after discussing it with my fellow editors at WT:IH. But in the meantime, if you have any further input on why it presently fails good article criteria, it would be much appreciated. -- NORTH ^talk 17:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Never apologise

I had been meaning to let you know of the conversations with darwinek and rigadoun - I think they both tend to prefer redirects for the 'gunung names' and no mention in the first sentence - if Understand right. I am very tired- and about to log off - so I wont be able to check their talk items to check that - will leave that till tommorrow or later - but I have no problem if after reading their messages again to go along with whatever seems the best way to go - I do not wish to offend either as both of them are very hard workers who leave me to shame in my scattered editing! SatuSuro 13:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

hahah - sorry - yes I agree with your message at my tlk page - I just saw the title of this section here and I am thinking I must apologise... SatuSuro 13:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I only have you, Michael, Merbabu and Imoeng's talkpage under my radar to know recent gossips or whether you guys are gossiping me. :D Okay, have a nice sleep. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 13:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletionism

The following AfDs and a CFD need your input - here, here, here and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_January_19#Malay_diaspora. (Caniago 07:11, 19 January 2007 (UTC))

WPI Cartography

Looks good so far! SatuSuro 15:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

...but nothing inside :P — Indon (reply) — 15:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

There is now - and its excellent SatuSuro 12:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. — Indon (reply) — 12:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

'Two cities on a map (Sabang and Merauke)' in Safari 2.04 (2005) on my Intel imac - Merauke is a black v small circle dot with an empty centre,and sabang has no mark.!SatuSuro 13:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

""Tried hardley ever used Firefox 200.1 exactly the same SatuSuro 13:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Darn. It must be the templates problem. Thanks. — Indon (reply) — 13:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Any time - but I will be away this coming week I think....SatuSuro 13:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mount Tambora

Hi Indon, i reverted a change on mount tambora. But i am not sure it was the right thing - ie, the death toll according to Oppenheimer. The reference needs a subscription/payment to open. maybe you could put a hidden editor's note about what is the correct one. Merbabu 03:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's been done so many times between these two numbers. There are many sources use 92,000 numbers but it is based on overestimated calculation. Oppenheimer puts a safer number that is > 71,000 based on direct accounts. I have put the explanation about this two numbers in the article talk page. How can I make a noticeable message to an editor who wants to make the edits? — Indon (reply) — 09:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Either put a HTML comment near the number, or alternatively write a sentence in the article mentioning the 92,000 number being an overestimate. (Caniago 09:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC))

I did, in the main article (Fatalities), not in the lead, but anon and new editors seem only read the lead and directly jump into a conclusion that the number is wrong. Well, I think I should put it in the lead. Thanks. — Indon (reply) — 09:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

SVG images

No problems - that was the easy bit (used svgfactory). Not sure how I can help with WPI Cartography otherwise, but if there's any other easy tasks I'll gladly help - really appreciate the work you've done so far - this will be really useful.--Bwmodular 15:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe something wrong with the SVG images I uploaded today. Although they look fine, they won't open correctly in the SVG editor I've just dl'ed (Inkscape), so they may need reworking. More tomorrow.....--Bwmodular 17:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

As you can see from the Borneo and Sulawesi images, I've managed to mess them up even worse than before. Images rendered in Inkscape, but a.) document whitespace also saved with image and b.) some parsing error occurs when you click on the file. I'll persevere - sorry for the mess. --Bwmodular 13:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Just got your message - and I had just worked this out myself and fixed my local copies! I'll upload a new 'New Guinea' map in a minute.--Bwmodular 13:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Indon, just uploaded a blank map of Java. Image:Java_blank_map.svg I've not yet added the different colours for the provinces. Do you think we're better off with these, or not? Any tips on adding them if we need them? I could do it in Photoshop easy enough, but then we'd lose the layers. Does that even matter? Also I've taken out all surrounding islands. Do you think any should go back in? I've been having fun playing with Inkscape, anyway - a good learning experience for me. Really should go and do some work now! --Bwmodular 16:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

For example, should I leave the island of Madura in? It's part of East Java province, but the blank provinces map actually has it as part of a much larger group so will have to see if I can remove everything apart from Madura from that group. --Bwmodular 16:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to go on about this - any idea how I can crop an object in Inkscape? Have a look at this. As you can maybe see, Madura is part of the big object that takes up the majority of the right of the screen. How to get rid of everything else in that section, and just leave Madura - I'll keep looking at it, but if you've already worked this out, let me know. Don't seem to be any cropping options like you'd find in other graphics tools. --Bwmodular 17:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I've got it now! You can use the 'break apart' command to split the object up, and then delete the bits you don't want. Sorted! --Bwmodular 17:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Java_blank_map.svg now has Madura and Panaitan included. Maybe we'll one day have the ability to toggle layers on and off in Wiki, in which case we can add the province colouring later on. Or should I add it now anyway? Do you know how to colour a block like that in Inkscape? Anyway, I'll start on Sumatra now...--Bwmodular 09:25, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I've uploaded Sumatra as well - do you think we need two versions of this - one as is and one with the Riau islands shown also? I've left them off this map as they are so far flung. What d'you think? Also, any ideas what the ellipse is to the left of the map? It's part of the equator layer, but it doesn't show up at all in Inkspace.--Bwmodular 11:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you know how to get rid of / replace the degree marker? I couldn't work it out.--Bwmodular 12:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Come on, let me know your secret :) I can't see the new text in the svg file either - or rather I can see it when I view the xml source, but how do you add/change it in Inkscape? --Bwmodular 15:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Mughal painting2.jpg

I notice you did some work to this image - I'm just questioning why fair-use is required for this and why a {{PD-art}} can't be used instead?--Joopercoopers 15:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Using English

Hello - I'm contacting you because of your statement regarding using English instead of foreign terms in articles. A few are trying to "Anglicise" French terms in Wiki articles according to the correct dictionary definitions but there is some resistance (eg/: "Région => Region"; "Département => Departement"). Your input would be appreciated here page. Thankyou. --Bob 16:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Bob. I've read at glance the page you pointed to, but, to be honest, I don't speak French at all. I'm afraid I don't have capability of adding comments there. Really sorry. Basically, I agree with English terms usage in English wikipedia, as long as the foreign language word has exactly the same meaning. The simple example is that the message you posted in the WikiProject Indonesia talk. The provinsi or propinsi name is exactly equal with province, so no need to use the Indonesian word. However, when we translate one province: Nusa Tenggara Barat (in Indonesian language, Tenggara is southeast and Barat is west), we do not use West Southeast Nusa, but West Nusa Tenggara. It's because Nusa Tenggara is one specific region name. — Indon (reply) — 18:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

No worries, in this case the definitions are exact and are in common use. I just feel that articles should follow one style across the field. At the moment it is random and therefore non-encyclopedic. But thanks for looking over. --Bob 18:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Picture

Hello. I noticed that you created this image, and wanted to ask why everything has a very sharp resolution, but the texture of the mountains depicted on the land is pixellated. I'm not sure if you do this on every map picture you create, if indeed you have created more. Was it intentional? --90.240.34.177 04:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it is not intentional. I took the base map from here: Image:Southeast_asia.svg, cropped to the region of interest and resize. The image of is then pixellated. I need the mountain pixels to show how mountaineous central sulawesi is. There is no other free topological map available to derive from it. — Indon (reply) — 08:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Kambangan

Hi Indon, if its really called Pulau Nusa Kambangan then that was my mistake - I was just assuming the Nusa should be translated as island. I was also going off the name Britannica uses - see [9] (Caniago 09:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC))

Proposed Infobox city changes

Hi Indon, I see you are messing around with a new city template. I don't want to preempt your proposal, but I couldn't help myself making changes to the {{Infobox city}} template to support the Location map template, especially since a few people have been asking for it. I posted the proposed changes here: Template_talk:Infobox_City#Proposed_changes_to_support_the_Location_map_template, which you may like to comment on. (Caniago 18:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for the comment Indon. I agree Infobox city has its problems. From what I can tell its used more commonly for US cities, so it has a bias in its design. The hardest part for making changes to it is to get a consensus about them. (Caniago 13:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC))

I'm torn. I like the idea of having a standard template across Wikipedia for common things like cities, lakes, mountains, islands, etc. It makes Wikipedia feel more consistent. Making our own template is alot of work, and there can be problems. For example, Google Earth may not be able to pickup the coordinates if you don't follow certain conventions (see [10]). Maybe wait until the Infobox city changes are sorted out and see how you feel then. Besides, Indonesia and Borobudur are waiting for FA status :-) (Caniago 13:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC))

Yes I agree - why would anyone cite qualifications in IT and playing piano in an debate about SE asian anthropology, lol. The whole comment from him was pretty immature, so its not worth the effort to send a reply. With the maps for the infobox box, I sneaked in the changes. Its amazing how easy it is to add a map to a city now, since you did the work to set it up. We'll have to think about setting up the map templates for Sumatra, Java, etc to get a more detailed view. (Caniago 11:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC))

South East Asia

What's your opinion on this? An editor has hidden a whole lot of info [11]. The ed has said it is in response to a statement in the discussion that the article is 'cluttered'. Firstly, do you agree it is cluttered? It's not an amazing article, but I don't think clutter is a problem. Although, it is interesting that he made these changes [12] just two days ago. Merbabu 14:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't like hidden comments, it is just wasting bandwidth for nothing. I opened all his comments back. I agree that the article is cluttered with small details, but hiding them is simply not a good way. The article absolutely needs copyediting. — Indon (reply) — 14:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry for my edits but someone on the [[13]] is trying to question the article. 23prootie 14:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hidden comments are simply not on -if someone questions an article - it is a case of seeking review/outside help - not hiding things - I agree with Indon SatuSuro 14:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Message by curious anon editor

Hi, I am curious to as why you want to delete the "Sergio Grdina" wikipedia page. Can you answer this for me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.177.168 (talk • contribs)

I am curious also, why did you ask that? I don't have any power to delete an article in Wikipedia. — Indon (reply) — 09:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Borobudur

Hey, I've notice the spelling Borobodur a few times. That isn't correct is it? Merbabu 12:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, my finger's mistake. :"-> Thanks for your copyediting. I should learn more from you. :-) — Indon (reply) — 12:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

hmmm - I am not a good copy editor. You should see my Indonesian, lol. Seriously though, please check my copy edits to ensure I have not introduced factual errors. Merbabu 12:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm doing it, but first, my shamed finger mistake. — Indon (reply) — 12:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I have always thought I will one day translate Indonesian Architecture into the ID WP. Then you can take your sweet revenge on me - lol! Merbabu 12:53, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. I almost spot one mistake between antique and antiquity. I checked my Oxford, then I just knew antiquity is specifically for Middle Ages, lol. It's much better now, thanks. I only reverted Raffles' "inspection tour", rather than just "a tour". Okay, I'll wait for id version of Indonesian Architecture. ;-) Just one quick test: will the title be "Arsitektur Indonesia" ? or "Arsitekturnya Indonesia"? or "Arsitektur dari Indonesia"? or "Arsitektur Orang Indonesia"? I even don't know which is the correct one, lol. — Indon (reply) — 13:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it won't be "Arsitektur Orang Indonesia" as my brother in law is an Arsitek Orang Indonesia but most of his career and projects have so far been overseas. maybe I should mention him. lol Merbabu 13:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I found a little problem with the tourist numbers. It says 26,000 tourists visit of which 36,000 are foreigners. hmmm. by the way, i added a comment. Once i read that it was the single-most popular tourist attraction in Indonesia - even more than some places in Bali. I will find the reference. Merbabu 13:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

When I lived there - they tried pushing us through the tourist gate and tourist entry rates - obviously because of our appearance (white faced londo...) - but I stood firm with our KITAS cards - and we all went through the locals gate they were not impressed - I would never trust a single statisitic from central java/jogja area after my visits to the statistics offices in the various tourist offices in yogya ten years ago - but some things might have changed - for the worst... SatuSuro 13:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

ah yes, i remember the dual pricing system. One could get angry on principle at the 'discrimination' but really, we no doubt remember there are worse things than having to pay what i recall was $5/head rather than the locals' $0.50/head to see one of the world's great sights. Merbabu 13:52, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Indon - my apologies - I feel this conversation I am having should be somewhere else - my apologies... SatuSuro 13:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

No need to apology. I should have apologized to both of you that I left this discussion suddenly. Merbabu, thanks for pointing the incorrect figure. It should be 260,000, of course (stuped me!). :-) I replaced also the "single most popular" term, though it is cited. The term is likely to be punished as a peacock (I feel pity to this bird). So, it's better to keep it as a "major" tourist attraction and by giving all citations mentioning how many visitors visited the site. Oh, I feel sorry to you guys you got higher rate. It's reminding myself here in the western country that non-EU citizens and non-western country citizens should pay about 256 euros for one residence permit extension, while the EU/Western ones only pay less than 80. It's still dual-pricing system in my former [[colonial country]] (should I wikilink this term?), hahaha. — Indon (reply) — 20:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Peer review

hi Indon, you go one response already for the peer review. I went through and implemented most of what they requested. They said they will give you more when you have finished their first batch. They've asked for a number of citations. I just put in the {{cn}} tags. Also, the ed commented on the red links. I added that it is 'Indonesia's single most popular tourist attraction' (with citation). Hope that is OK. I will let you contact the reviewing ed. Merbabu 14:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for handling that. I've given her/him a reply. Michael also gave some reviews, a good one. I'll handle his later (I know you're watching, Michael ;-). — Indon (reply) — 20:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

New user

At Kopassus today - new User:Suryowirawan.wibisono was tackled by a bot about an image and went silent - I wonder if you might either put him on watch or welcome him as well - my welcome got no response - I think you know something about the image copyright thing too? Oh by the way - your work on Bobobudur is excellent! I wish I knew where the elusive hindu king who started borobudur ref was - I havent come across it - but If I ever do.... cheers SatuSuro 13:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

gah - i too have often heard about this Hindu influence on Borobudur, but cannot say I have any refs. :( I hope to be in Jogja later this year, so let's see what I can find. Merbabu 13:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Tricky i think leadbeater and some theosophists were there in the 20's or 30s (they had significant effect on kebatinan thinkers of the time) and I think they did some intuitive history of java and borobudur and unfortunately - it might be the clue.. SatuSuro 13:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Cricket world cup

(moved to Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Cricket_World_Cup) — Indon (reply) — 08:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I'm sorry about forgetting to cite everything using proper templates. It's done now (note that I'm posting this in the FAC as well so no need to move anything). Nobleeagle ^[TALK] [C] 21:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Sulawesi map

Hi Indon, I propose creating an altogether new version of the Sulawesi map (and some of the others, but let's start with Sulawesi). I'd like to take the blank provinces map as a starting point again, so that we retain the smaller islands which are dotted around the mainland. However, if we did this, we'd lose the province colouring. How do you feel about this? I won't upload anything until I've heard back from you - if you know how to do it in Inkscape, I'll happily create a new layer in the image which displays the different provinces in different colours, but for now will concentrate on good quality non-coloured maps. PS I have a little gallery for reference here. --Bwmodular 12:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

In other words, it would be more like the Sumatra map, which shows lots of the larger outlying islands.--Bwmodular 12:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I created Image:Sulawesi_blank_map_inc_islands.svg and added it to the cartography page. However, by mistake I uploaded it to en:Wikipedia, not commons, so I've now marked this for speedy deletion, at which point the link will go to the commons file instead. Maybe we should create two versions - one which extends out to the outer islands, and one which is just the mainland and immediately surrounding islands. I'll increase the resolution of all the images I've uploaded so far, probably later today, possible tomorrow. Cheers, Ben --Bwmodular 13:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Just a quick check before I go ahead and make any further changes - do you think all these maps should be 1000px wide? Just asking because some are tall and some are wide, so there's no standard format really. I've already made Java 1000px wide - does that look about right?--Bwmodular 14:23, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ralph Bakshi

As I explained on the talk page, in the only instances in which I used a message board as a source, it was Bakshi's own message board, and, specifically, Bakshi himself speaking on his own message board. It is a reliable source. (Ibaranoff24 18:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC))

Pashtun people

I think I've fixed all the image problems. Please take another look at the article. :-) Also, I've deleted the entire external links section as they were mostly unhelpful websites and for the most part, spam. Khoikhoi 08:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Also check this out. Khoikhoi 01:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

ISBN Rather Than Google Books

I'm a newbie, so this may be a dumb question, but why link through ISBN rather than google books? Mocko13 14:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Text boxes

Hi Indon. I'm thinking of putting some text boxes in U2 like your boxes in Mount Tambora. I wanted to add extra 'colour' and 'context' while not interuppting encyclopedic text. I wonder if it will be accepted? Do you have any thoughts on the best ways to use them? Do you know other articles that have them? Merbabu 14:36, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Um, text box i meant, not info box. ie, for quotes. Check my sandbox - there is a few there - i can't decide!!! Merbabu 16:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, i finally did it. It took a lot of research. here's a version in case it gets reverted: [14]. Ie, they are all the boxes with the quotes. It's so hard to choose. I found so many, but i tried to choose passages where each sentence was important. Merbabu 05:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

SVG stuff

1. No problems about the Java image, I'll leave this untouched until you're finished.
2. I found out why I couldn't see the equator text in the Sumatra map. I'm using Windows NT at work - on my XP machine it shows up fine.
3. I'll convert to 1000px wide or high later today.
4. I'll gladly create new province maps BUT I don't know how to do the shading in Inkscape, nor do I know how to convert to png. Any tips? Or is this something I should do in Photoshop? --Bwmodular 09:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

And about the shading, that's a bit tricky. You need to disconect path of coastline for a particular province, make a close curve and then put fill in it. Takes some works. That's OK - I like a challenge. I'll do the first one and then upload it for you to look at. --Bwmodular 11:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

1st province map

Hiya, have a look at this. Splitting and shading is relatively easy, but take a closer look at the shaded area (It's still in SVG format so you can look at it in Inkscape) - can you see the line that runs from North to South in the province. Seems to connect the first and last points of the path. Any idea how to get rid of that? Also, any thoughts on the colour we should use for the shading? I'll stick with that green if that's OK with you., and I'll make them about the same size as the existing ones. Probably won't get many of these done this week, but early next week I'll finish them off! --Bwmodular 12:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Photos

Thanks Indon. I didn't think I had access to Project MUSE, but after you sent me the message I had a look and it turns out my library does have a subscription. The Fort de Kock photo I already have a copy of through another source. I've always wondered what the tower in the photo is for, since it seems to be just a market area. It certainly doesn't exist anymore. I'll have to ask the historians in West Sumatra next time I visit. I'll have to have a look through Project MUSE to see what other goodies they have :-) (Caniago 15:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC))

Cricket World Cup

Could you please take a third look? — Nobleeagle ^[TALK] [C] 00:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Sarwo....

Saya lihat itu, makin lihat makin gila, dan dapat orang kurang sopan tentang semua - dan indon Zap! - di mana text itu? ke mana? keliling, atau artikel yang lain atau ...??? SatuSuro 12:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

BTW congratulations on tracking down the borobudur photograph - I can assure you that is a real gem! well done! SatuSuro 13:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)