User talk:D'Ranged 1/Archive 9

2017 posts

Orphaned non-free image File:Liliane Montevecchi 1985.png

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Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Cite DVD notes/testcases2

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice that the page you created, Template:Cite DVD notes/testcases2, was tagged as a test page under section G2 of the criteria for speedy deletion and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

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Replaceable fair use File:Liliane Montevecchi 1985.png

Thanks for uploading File:Liliane Montevecchi 1985.png. I noticed that this file is being used under a claim of fair use. However, I think that the way it is being used fails the first non-free content criterion. This criterion states that files used under claims of fair use may have no free equivalent; in other words, if the file could be adequately covered by a freely-licensed file or by text alone, then it may not be used on Wikipedia. If you believe this file is not replaceable, please:

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Moves

Hi. I took care of your move request, but just want to let you know, in case you don't already, that you can move pages yourself over a redirect, as long as there have been no additional edits to the redirect and it points to the article you want to move. Station1 (talk) 22:23, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Station1: A Thousand Thanks! I didn't know that, or I would have done it. I'll try to remember if the occasion arises again. Your help is greatly appreciated! —D'Ranged 1 | VT^alk :  22:47, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Cite parameter spacing

You're gone again! Semi-retired? Re-retired?

I've become aware of a script that conveniently allows one to bollox the parameter spacing in an entire article with a few clicks.[1] I don't think people can be prevented from using it (it doesn't violate policy AFAIK). The case I linked was undoable, but many won't be. What's needed is a counter-script to restore our convention, but I don't do JS. Do you? Also, do you remember where the convention was discussed? I wasn't involved in that, but I remember you were.

Please ping me. ―Mandruss ☎ 06:17, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

@Mandruss: - To the best of my knowledge, there is no actual "convention" when it comes to spacing in citations; however, most, if not all, of the CS1 documentation lists full parameter sets this way:

{{cite web |url= |title= |last= |first= |author= |author-link= |last2= |first2= |author2= |author-link2= |date= |year= |editor-last= |editor-first= |editor= |editor-link= |editor2-last= |editor2-first= |editor2-link= |editors= |department= |website= |series= |publisher= |location= |page= |pages= |at= |language= |script-title= |trans-title= |type= |format= |arxiv= |asin= |bibcode= |doi= |doi-broken-date= |isbn= |issn= |jfm= |jstor= |lccn= |mr= |oclc= |ol= |osti= |pmc= |pmid= |rfc= |ssrn= |zbl= |id= |archive-url= |archive-date= |dead-url= |access-date= |quote= |ref= |postscript= |subscription= |registration=}}

and examples are illustrated this way:

{{cite web |url=http://www.example.org/ |title=My Favorite Things, Part II |last=Doe |first=John |publisher=Open Publishing |date=April 30, 2005 |website=Encyclopedia of Things |access-date=November 16, 2017}}

My preference has always been to put a space before the pipe as is done in the template examples; gadgets such as refToolbar don't add any spaces; others put a space after the pipe; and some do both. So, to the best of my knowledge, there are currently these variations in major usage:

{{cite web|first1=John|last1=Author|title=Title|date=April 1, 2017|access-date=November 20, 2017|url=www.website.com}}—no spaces—used by RefTools

{{cite web |first1=John |last1=Author |title=Title |date=April 1, 2017 |access-date=November 20, 2017 |url=www.website.com}}—space before pipe

{{cite web| first1=John| last1=Author| title=Title| date=April 1, 2017| access-date=November 20, 2017| url=www.website.com}}—space after pipe

{{cite web | first1=John | last1=Author | title=Title | date=April 1, 2017 | access-date=November 20, 2017 | url=www.website.com}}—space before and after pipe

The only place I ever see spaces around the "=" signs are when the templates are rendered vertically, as in infoboxes, where enough spaces are added before the "=" to align all of them, with an additional space after the "=" before the value of the parameter:

{{cite web
|first1      = John
|last1       = Author
|title       = Title
|date        = April 1, 2017
|access-date = November 20, 2017
|url         = www.website.com}}

Rather than trying to create a counter-script, perhaps its author, Waldir, could be asked what prompted his creation of a totally unnecessary script that adds useless space and size to articles? It's beyond ridiculous, but I'm not up to tilting at windmills at Wikipedia at the moment. I'm actually copyediting a book due for publication sometime soon and it's taking more of my time than I thought, so WP has been put on a back burner for the foreseeable future. If you're up to the challenge, I suggest posting something at Help talk:Citation Style 1 that includes the link to the article you provided here, along with queries for the script's author, User talk:Waldir and the editor who used it on the linked article, User talk:Checkingfax.

On a side note, I disagree with the removal of all the |archive-url= parameters that were added to the citations with the argument that it made an already long article too long, but I don't have the time nor energy to tilt at that windmill, either.—D'Ranged 1 | VT^alk :  10:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I mistakenly thought there had been discussion about the merits of the space-before-pipe format, having to do with line breaks at "natural" points or some such. I was looking for a better articulation of those merits than I'm able to produce myself. ―Mandruss ☎ 10:54, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

@Mandruss: Sorry, I don't know of any such discussion; there's certainly never been a consensus on how to space citations, nor do I think there will ever be one. However, I think a valid argument can be made that using the script adds unnecessary size to an article, as a start. I don't see that it adds any readability or other positives to citations, either.—D'Ranged 1 | VT^alk :  11:00, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Yeah. Some editors will claim that it adds readability. But I'll likewise avoid that windmill if I can. BTW added pings don't work, as described at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Echo#Technical_details. ―Mandruss ☎ 11:24, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

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