User talk:ClaudeReigns/GCM

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What do you think about publishing this soon? I need to verify some facts for you on the Executive Director (I don't know dates on Dave B serving as Exec Dir, and I think there was a guy named Tom Shrader (sp?) for a year. I'm gonna find that out. But past that I think this is starting to look good as a solid summary and ready to split off. I also noticed that representatives from GCC contacted you on the GCC talk page, and while I'm happy that they want to do that, I'd rather that be a whole separate conversation and would rather not get too involved. I'd rather focus on verifying GCM facts. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 00:20, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Understood and agree. I think if you're good with publishing, we should do so. Within the week, I would think. ClaudeReigns (talk) 01:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Been crazy travelling and haven't had a chance to further verify what I mentioned above, or source anything helpful further at the moment. Then I'm with GCM at the Verge conference in Texas, so I'm at least a week before I get back to focus. I'm okay with going ahead and putting this out there before that time, if we can continue to add facts as we source them. Just to update.Chris.ridgeway (talk) 04:57, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Clarifications and Additions For New Article

Top Section

  • GCM doesn't only support campus, and doesn't only support churches (also small non-profits who need support-based staffing) Example of non-campus, non-church based ministry: Hope 4 Ethopia. Example of non-church based US ministry Box 7 Ministries. Suggestion: "which supports missional churches, church plants and outreaches in campus, urban, and international settings." Chris.ridgeway (talk) 18:25, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would be delighted to give this some exposition. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Added. ClaudeReigns (talk) 11:37, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • We don't like to say any more that we do "leadership" training. Theologically we believe this is a function of the church groups, so we'd expect Collegiate or Acts 29 or GCC, etc to do their own training in that area. (Definitely a lot of "leadership training" associated with the "GCM brand in the early 2000s when Jeff Kern was president though, but that's because Collegiate and GCM were more synonymous for that stretch as we've said. Another example: Collegiate runs a summer program for students called "Leadership Training." GCM in Orlando administers the event registration website for those programs, but not the training/content, etc.) Suggestion: "GCM provides training in the theological and practical aspects of fundraising." GCM Resource Paper: Fundraising (MTD) Training and Coaching Chris.ridgeway (talk) 18:25, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's weird. Please tell me what this means. Quote: "Brought to you by GCM". 2013 GCM copyright. There is a strong identification with GCM throughout the website and absolutely no mention of Collegiate. This despite the fact that institutions mentioned are Collegiate but Collegiate has no institutions in Colorado. Those are GCC institutions. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, this is a good point. I just went and read through this site. Okay so, the "GCM" used all over this site falls into 1 of 2 reasons: 1) It means "GCM churches" and since the name Collegiate just got officially put into use about 6 months ago, it's not been changed well (I don't know who at Collegiate is the webmaster for this site but I plan to ask about it) or 2) GCM absolutely does administrate the LT program--meaning mostly we have a person in our office that oversees online registration (but then a Collegiate rep logs in and admits the students, etc). We actually charge Collegiate a fee for this out of the registration costs. I guess I don't mind us being associated with "leadership training" at all... but the reality is that we don't do, say, content for these summer programs, so I was trying to be clear. You're not correct that there is "no mention of" Collegiate: http://www.gcmlt.org/info-for-parents/ but there should be more. Also, I'm pretty sure this site is being marketed this year as "www.collegiatelt.org" and the "www.gcmlt.org" was left working so that links from previous years worked. Anyway, hopefully that's clear as mud. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 16:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

New comment In the info box, I suggest doing a list of Executive Directors. I think it will be more relevant for readers to see the leadership progression. I'm going to set this spot to drop in a table:

Executive Director/President Years
Dave Bovenmeyer 1989?
Tom Shro? 1990-1992?
Jeff Kern 1993-2004?
Greg Guevara 2005-2006?
Tom Mauriello 2006 - Today

This table is all draft (obviously): I'm going to go through and try to verify each part. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 22:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

History

Despite your protests, it appears that GCM not only has a Leadership Training Program, it is somewhat notable for it. I am unable to ascertain the reasons to distance the organization from its apparently reputable and acknowledged activities. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:31, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also good point: I can see how it sounds weird that I'm distancing from the "leadership training." First, you've helped me see that I'm thinking of 2 completely different things. the "LT program" for students has been around for a long time, and its a summer program by GCM churches or now Collegiate (btw: GCC has programs they call LT too... but they haven't done them with GCM in a long while: it's their own thing. No idea if they even have a website for it). Anyway, this is really a college summer program focused on having a fun, good summer where students work a job, learn to mature in their faith, etc. It's nothing like, say seminary or missionary or pastor training, which is what I was thinking of more. GCM *has* done missionary training events over the years when it was pre-2004 with Jeff Kern, but now we no longer do--we leave that to Collegiate or other newer church groups. So, to explain why you hear me backing off... I think it's because since our role since 2004 is much more "service organization"--it's a valuable thing for our church partners to understand that we don't take over from them in the areas of theology or church planting method or something. So I guess I'm fine with leadership being associated with us, but I don't want people to misunderstand and think we are like a denomination that forces people to only believe one single thing, etc. We're not. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 17:04, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good to know. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:31, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Howdy! I'm trying to back around. Too much travelling this month. Okay, I'm hoping you may be able to consider helping expand and reformat this history. Freshly re-reading it, it seems to miss some of the larger important dates and details, and emphasizes a number of things from GCC that don't seem very relevant. I'm going to point you to some further sources to see if this helps. Some notes in no particular order:

  • Olan Hendrix. He should be included because of his long tenure on the board Mr Hendrix was the founding president/director of the Evangelical Council of Financial Accountability (in 1979, source), and sat on the GCM board of directors from June 1992 to Oct 2005 [1]. He was a regular national Christian board consultant ([[[2]|example]] who strongly directed original founders past 1992 helping them establish systems.
  • GCM was founded in 1989, and events prior to that I think are sorta foreign to the article. I can't even find records about the stuff you are citing for Great Commission church movement: mainly because that was GCC and our office doesn't even have records of this stuff. I would think this belongs in the GCC article and is better on topic there? If we think some of its important, can come up with a criteria to include, such as relating to support-based campus staff? I maybe suggest the headers like:
    • 1989-1992 Founding Years by Great Commission Churches
    • 1992 - 2000 Mission agency for Great Commission-related groups
    • 2001-2004 Orlando Move and Growth
    • 2004 - 2006 Transition in Leadership
    • 2007 - 2013 (to Today) Expanded Mission to Wider Evangelical Groups
  • For instance, citation 7 (Kaade Roberts /April 1992) doesn't discuss GCM at all. The statement related to it that "Great commission students" was a mission agency I don't think is true at all. (As far as I know it was a name of student groups associated with GCC churches at the time.)
  • Campus Crusade for Christ. They were instrumental in helping launch the missionary program. Campus crusade trainers and materials were used for the first few classes. I have internal documentation on this. I'll try to find a way to drop this information this way.


Okay, I actually have started a history project and started compiling documents that will help make this much better. More results soon. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 22:49, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

New source: The World Evangelical Alliance has published an article about GCM since we recently joined. This provides some pretty good additional history and facts it looks like that aren't present here yet. [3] Chris.ridgeway (talk) 15:44, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GCM and media

Promotional material isn't something we cover here, unless the promotions are noted elsewhere. YouTube does not qualify as WP:RS, though vimeo links qualify. Whereas I was able to include a vimeo link in the article Al-Nakba: The Palestinian Catastrophe 1948 to an actual film discussed, the film had been noted in secondary sources, as had the GCM identity materials and brochure that I have already included. Devotion Media's work was covered in a book about religion and graphic design. Probably the number one mistake that identifies COI in an article. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:50, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ah - good to know. Okay, makes sense. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 18:00, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Finances

When are these released annually? We can set an alert to keep the page current. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Usually we aim for April-May. It's not a set date, and internal financials have to be cleared and audit has to be complete so there are a lot of moving parts and the exact date varies. This year I'm hoping for like April 15 or something. How does the alert thing work? Chris.ridgeway (talk) 20:19, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also good. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure if the bean-counter counts as encyclopedic material. I can't recall any dispute over the books being solid, nor does Capin Crouse qualify as any kind of notable trivia. the infobox template may give you some ideas of basic facts about non-profits which are most relevant. ClaudeReigns (talk) 05:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I can see that. So maybe it's not significant enough. But from my non-profit view, the "audit" is more than just numbers (though that is extensive). They review every publication we put out from communications for example. They can interview staff. They pull random files for security checks. It's sorta a non-profit badge for not just financial integrity but also organizational integrity. The external audit is probably the hardest "fact" there is to show that a non profit isn't just a fake website someone threw up or something. Anyway, take that for what it is. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 20:19, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Accountability

  • GCM has an Accountability summary page here. Some of this is already in the Finances or History section. Maybe some of it should move to here?
We can definitely add these here, but I don't know about deletion on the other page. ClaudeReigns (talk) 06:22, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Council of reference isn't really an accountability thing. I mean, it's nice, and council of reference members speak positively about GCM, but they don't official oversight of any kind. I think the council is an important point, but maybe goes under a different header?)
Honestly, I'm not sure what a Council of Reference does. In the past, they've been used as an indicator of accountability, which is why they were there. ClaudeReigns (talk) 06:22, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Board of Directors is a significant part of accountability because they have legal authority. Board of Directors. Suggestion: "GCM oversight is provided by eleven members on a board made of Christian leaders in ministry, business, and some representatives of church networks GCM partners with (Currently: Ecclesia, Acts 29, Collegiate, GCC). The board is independent, meaning that the voting majority is not paid by the organization. Board members serve for two-year, renewable terms. The current chairman of the board is Noel Heikkinen, a pastor with the Acts 29 Network in East Lansing, Michigan."New Chairman of the GCM Board, Nov 16, 2012 Chris.ridgeway (talk) 18:25, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? Noel Heikkinen is a pastor at Riverview Church and got involved with Great Commission at Michigan State University in his third year around 1994 at the campus church plant Dave Bovenmyer started in the fall of 1977. ClaudeReigns (talk) 06:22, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Another new fact for me: no idea that Dave Bovenmyer was in Riverview's history. Cool. But what's the question? Is Noel with Acts 29? Yes Riv FAQs Tweet Chris.ridgeway (talk) 20:26, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • GCM has "Valued Partner Guidestar Exchange Seal" demonstrating GCM's commitment to transparency. Guidestar QuickView: GCM.
This is a very good source. ClaudeReigns (talk) 06:22, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm awesome :) Chris.ridgeway (talk) 20:26, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Impact

You should know that the Acts 29 page is nominated for deletion. I am going to recommend it be kept based on our work here. ClaudeReigns (talk) 06:58, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Added many sources to Acts 29 Network and created references linked here and there. Hopefully this saves the article. I managed to get at least one nod and maybe that will change the conversation. ClaudeReigns (talk) 11:39, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nice. I might be able to help there. I was at the Acts 29 conference where they announced the office move to Texas and a number of other things. I'll see if can bring in some other sources. I would say that GCM probably shouldn't be so high in the article under history. I feel like we've gotten involved with them since 2007 or so, and a lot more in the last few years, but I don't see GCM as part of their core history. I think a section on partners and impact would be good, and GCM would belong under there. Chris.ridgeway (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that mention of the Acts 29 Network in secondary sources as cited in the article was rather limited, up until what I could find in 2007. I have researched many more secondary sources, sitting on the talk page of the article. When I add those sources, it should create quite a bit more back story to Acts 29 prior to 2007. That should fix things. ClaudeReigns (talk) 20:54, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Media

Ha! I just realized I cited one of your Relevant Magazine articles. ClaudeReigns (talk) 12:19, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Potentially embarrassing. Those are old enough that I'm not sure my writing was all that good...  :) Chris.ridgeway (talk) 20:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"GCM identity materials and brochure have been produced by Devotion Media under the art direction of Loyd Boldman."

This is an impressive citation. I've never seen this book, and not familiar with this guy. I'm seeking to verify it. Do you have the actual book in possession?
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