User talk:Alden Loveshade

Spock/Holmes

One possibility occurs to me—and there are always possibilities. 😏

In the section Background, a paragraph could be added; to wit:

In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Spock delves further into his family tree, referencing an ancestor who maintained that, in the search for facts, when the impossible is eliminated, what remains must be true, no matter how unlikely.<ref>{{cite book|last=Britt|first=Ryan|title=Luke Skywalker Can't Read: And Other Geeky Truths|edition=Kindle|chapter=Baker Streets on Infinite Earths: Sherlock Holmes as the Eternal Sci-Fi Superhero|pages=82–83|quote=[Britt:] I chatted extensively with [screenwriter] Nicholas Meyer, who … claims that 'the link between Spock and Holmes was obvious to everyone. I just sort of made it official.' … when I needled Meyer to tell me who Spock's great-great-great-great-great-grandmother was, he said that it was, 'of course, Irene Adler.'}}</ref>

That said, if another editor were to remove the passage over encyclopaedic merit, I would not revert. ATS (talk) 21:37, 30 December 2020 (UTC) 🖖🏻

ATS I appreciate the suggestion. To me, though, the important thing is not the quote, but the Sherlock Holmes connection. And while Meyer may well have mentioned Irene Adler in an interview, I wouldn't see that as being official, whereas the ancestor reference and quote are in the movie and are thus canon. What if it said something like Spock quoted one of his ancestors; Arthur Conan Doyle attributed the quote to Sherlock Holmes. Actually, I guess basically I'm suggesting you use a reference in Spock very much like what you did in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country; I thought that worked very well. Alden Loveshade (talk) 01:47, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Well, what's not working for me, then, is any suggestion/assertion of Holmes being the ancestor in Spock's article, as opposed to exploring the literary connection within the film's. My first thought is to remove the reference to Adler from the quote. My second thought is a rewrite:

In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Spock delves further into his family tree, referencing "an ancestor of mine" who maintained, in the same manner as Sherlock Holmes, that in the search for facts, when the impossible is eliminated, what remains must be true, no matter how unlikely.

I actually like your wording in The Undiscovered Country better. I think the above could be interpreted to mean that the ancestor is not Sherlock Holmes, but a different person speaking "in the same manner." I think we could stick with the facts. The facts are that Spock credited a quote to one of his ancestors; and that Sherlock Holmes said that. Those are verifiable and encyclopedic. I think keeping them separate would leave it up to the reader to make their own interpretation, while the article would just present the facts. Alden Loveshade (talk) 04:40, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Allow me to be the first, then, to wish you luck. 😏🖖🏻 —ATS (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

… with or without the Adler reference. Even then, however, I still find the blurb problematic in Spock's article. Its removal by another editor strikes me as an eventual certainty. ATS (talk) 02:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Well, this is fascinating

Just for shits and giggles, I left a message at nicholas-meyer.com asking for comment on my essay—and someone claiming to be "Nick" just responded. His 'voice' is the same, so I'm inclined to believe it.

Nick found my essay "thoroughly entertaining". 😄 His first comment after that was to question whether he's playing that 'great game' amongst the Holmesians or acting in a more "'extraterrestrial' capacity". This makes perfect sense: the 'great game' of pretending Holmes is real is largely applied to real life; Meyer's is fictional, if within that same universe.

That said, he laments the tendency of people to take things too seriously, and longs for more whimsy, of which he seems happily guilty. He doesn't address Spock/Holmes—I didn't actually ask, either—but my reply that an encyclopaedia has to be serious includes a statement that a direct relation cannot be stated unless he actually says so.

We'll see where that goes. —ATS (talk) 16:53, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

ATS, That is cool! I would think that would have been him who responded; one, because he probably wouldn't want anyone else answering as him (a politician might, but I doubt he would); and two, that definitely sounds like him. Maybe you could get that essay published somewhere outside of Wikipedia!

On a side note, I just visited his website yesterday; I was hoping I might find an appropriate Holmes-Spock reference. But I only did a quick search, and didn't. Alden Loveshade (talk) 17:39, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, no such luck. 😏 —ATS (talk) 18:14, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Some additions to my essay that you may find interesting including, among other things, that it finally occurred to me that I should solicit Britt's opinions. ATS (talk) 19:21, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll check it out. It will have to be a little later; I got hit by the record cold/power outage thing, so right now am struggling to catch up with my work. Alden Loveshade (talk) 20:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Ouch. Sorry to hear that. I have friends near Austin, so I understand. 😬 ATS (talk) 00:09, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

ATS I saw the addenda--cool! Another point is that in an early Star Trek episode, Spock said he had a human ancestor, I think on his mother's side, but I don't remember. That was before Journey to Babel, where we met his parents. I only did a very quick search, and didn't find the episode, but can look for it later. Alden Loveshade (talk) 18:07, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

It's "Where No Man Has Gone Before", the second pilot. Here's the scene. ATS (talk) 04:09, 1 March 2021 (UTC) 🖖🏻

That's it, thanks! I remembered it was an early episode; you can't get much earlier than that! Alden Loveshade (talk) 23:10, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Episode Descriptions

Hi. You're welcome. I've done plenty of descriptions for other shows in the past so I developed quick under 200 word summaries over time. BlueberryTree (talk) 03:44, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

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Thanks BOZ! My end of the year letter for 2021 is here. Alden Loveshade (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

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I'm wishing you a Merry Christmas, because that is what I celebrate. Feel free to take a "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" if you prefer.  :) BOZ (talk) 23:02, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

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I'm wishing you a Merry Christmas, because that is what I celebrate. Feel free to take a "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" if you prefer.  :) BOZ (talk) 00:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the message, and same to you!

And I promise I'll look for where the huskies go, and I won't eat that yellow snow. Alden Loveshade (talk) 07:07, 23 December 2023 (UTC)