User talk:清风与明月

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Control copyright icon Hello 清风与明月! Your additions to Mubarak Begum (tawaif) have been removed in whole or in part, as they appear to have added copyrighted content without evidence that the source material is in the public domain or has been released by its owner or legal agent under a suitably free and compatible copyright license. (To request such a release, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission.) While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, it's important to understand and adhere to guidelines about using information from sources to prevent copyright and plagiarism issues. Here are the key points:

It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices. Persistent failure to comply may result in being blocked from editing. If you have any questions or need further clarification, please ask them here on this page, or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 23:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Good day, and a belated welcome to Wikipedia. Having reviewed the content of above article, I noticed that you had started copying back the content removed by Significa liberdade above. While I am certain you meant well, it is critical that you take the above warning to heart and refrain from copying content from other sites onto Wikipedia in the future, as otherwise you will be blocked from editing.
    Wikipedia cannot accept content copy / pasted from third parties, unless explicit permission from the original owners of the content is granted.
    Kindly, MLauba (Talk) 17:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of "courtesan"

You have repeatedly removed the term "courtesan" in multiple articles or replaced it with dancer these are not synonymous and neither is courtesan a derogatory term. Your edits frequently go against the RS cited within the page or actually distort quotes. Please desist from doing edit like these. Gotitbro (talk) 07:29, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The same goes for your insertion of "kotha" instead of brothel among numerous other edits which censor anything related to prostitution or the sex industry in India, remember WP:Wikipedia is not censored. I will be reverting your edits and redcommend you to not proceed further with any such unliateral edits before seeking consensus on Talk pages. Gotitbro (talk) 07:38, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, in English expressions, Western courtesan and tawaif are also somewhat different. Moreover, there are some differences in expressions between kotha and brothel. Brothel generally refers to a place of prostitution, but in some movies and TV dramas, "kotha" does not include prostitution. So change the expression. 清风与明月 (talk) 10:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@清风与明月: Again I have to remind you that Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED. You repeated removal of categories and article content and context serving the same is now becoming disruptive. Courtesans, tawaifs and the like here at enwiki and in scholarly sources for the same are intimately linked with prostitution you cannot unilateraly change that. If you an issue with this aspect take it up at WP:Wikiproject History or WT:IN (the India forum) and establish your case there with relevant sources but you are not going to brute force your edits as such. A continuation of this editing behaviour may lead to editing restrictions in the form of bans. Gotitbro (talk) 17:04, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at the relevant descriptions, the most commonly used words for Gangubai and Begum Jaan are prostitutes and sex workers. For the classification of documentary and drama, the word tawaif I use is "courtesan". In addition, for academic aspects of tawaif, you can refer to textual research books. There are also expressions of The Courtesan Project and Tawaif and Kotha roam activities. 清风与明月 (talk) 03:30, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For "courtesan", you have to understand the different cultural expressions of the West and the East. There are also film and television works that have different settings. Some film and television works do not involve prostitution, or do not clearly explain it. Directly positioning it as a prostitution movie is a bit biased. 清风与明月 (talk) 03:32, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pakistani actress and dancer Niggo is from tawaif background. You have no evidence to prove that she is engaged in prostitution. You define actress Niggo as prostitution. Do you have substantial evidence to prove that actress Niggo has prostitution? 清风与明月 (talk) 03:36, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Film and television works are one thing, reality is another. For example, this time the Heeramandi TV series did not reflect the difference well. There are some female singers and actresses from tawaif background in India and Pakistan who are not prostitutes. 清风与明月 (talk) 03:47, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your comments appear to fall under the WP:IDONOTLIKEIT rationale i.e. they are not tenable. Yes, there are always nuances involved but for the purposes of the English Wikipedia tawaifs and similar professions are broadly treated under the umbrella of prostitution/sex work. Your own WP:SYNTH understanding of these topics is not going to lead to a unilateral overhauling of the content, for that as stated before find WP:CONSENSUS at the forums linked above and convince other editors of the change. Till then, per the present consensus and precedent, your edits cannot stand.
As for Niggo, read the sources linked in the article, they say exactly what you have been trying to remove. Gotitbro (talk) 12:50, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Niggo's wiki, the reason why I changed the description of the red light district and only kept the description of heeramandi is mainly because she is a real person, even a modern person, although she has passed away, but try to avoid misunderstandings.The reference material says that Heeramandi is a red-light district, which is true because this place did develop into a red-light district later. But in the early days of Pakistani movies, there were still tawaifs there. Not all of them were engaged in prostitution, but at that time, tawaifs, prostitutes, and accompanying musicians were all in the same area. Some of Pakistan's early film actresses and singers were tawaifs from Heeramandi. 清风与明月 (talk) 14:55, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For example, except for Niggo, the others with wiki entries are Nadira, Naina, Zeenat Begum, and Tamancha Jan, all of whom were born as tawaifs in Heeramandi and went into the film and television industry. The main reason is that Niggo's entry is added separately to the red-light district. For modern people who really exist like this, they may think she is "relatively special", so only her wiki is marked. 清风与明月 (talk) 14:55, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamancha_Jan
Tamancha Jan’s wiki entry, which I saw was edited by someone else, only describes heeramandi, not the red-light district. Although that place had already developed into a red-light district, for a real person, it might be more appropriate to directly describe the background of heeramandi’s tawaif. So for Niggo’s wiki, I borrowed the wiki model of Tamancha Jan. 清风与明月 (talk) 14:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for February 17

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Disambiguation link notification for March 12

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Heera Mandi, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kotha.

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, 清风与明月. Thank you for your work on Mubarak Begum (tawaif). North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good start. Needs more of a lead, which is a summary of the the article. Happy editing!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 14:47, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000:清风与明月 has received a reply, thank you. 清风与明月 (talk) 15:25, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

March 2024

Copyright problem icon Your edit to Zareena Begum has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. Wikishovel (talk) 08:43, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zareena Begum moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Zareena Begum. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it needs more sources to establish notability. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 01:39, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for April 18

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Chen Yuanyuan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Liyuan.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Aurra Bhatnagar Badoni

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A tag has been placed on Aurra Bhatnagar Badoni requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Chen Yuanyuan

Hello, 清风与明月. If you need to make further changes of Chen Yuanyuan, please make specific adjustments instead of reverting the entire article; I'm afraid there are more than a few grammar and readability issues in your version. For example, I know 梨园 but sentences like 'Chen Yuanyuan was originally from Liyuan. She was an actress and singer in Liyuan.' don't make much sense in English (And why repeat the same thing twice anyway?)

Sentences like 'Chen Yuanyuan was both talented and beautiful, famous in Jiangzuo, and had the demeanor of a famous scholar. Every time she performs on stage, she is brilliant and outstanding, and the audience applauds him.' are grammatically awkward and largely unsourced. (She or he? Hongniang was her first role? Jiangzuo is not a proper name in English. The 孙会昌 piece has no historical value and shouldn't be used as a source.)

There are also conflicting accounts in your version. In the summary, it says Liu Zongmin took her, while in the article, it becomes Li Zicheng. In fact, we know very little about CYY's life and it's easy to find conflicting sources about her. For instances, who adopted her? Who brought her to Beijing? And ofc who took her in the fall of Beijing? It would prob be better to reconcile varied versions in the summary (i.e., she was taken by 'the Shun army,' instead of specifically by Liu or Li) and provide more details in the bio if you want.

I retained 'Geji' instead of 'courtesan' in the summary, as you suggested, though imho the hair-splitting is pointless in Chen's case and 'courtesan' is much more understandable to common readers. Chen's line of work is barely a topic for debate even in the Chinese world. It's easy to find academic literature that outright calls her a '妓女'.

And pls use proper sentence spacing. Enrico Chou (talk) 10:12, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's like this. Chen Yuanyuan was captured by two people, Li Zicheng and Liu Minzong, so there is no problem with these two statements. Chen Yuanyuan is a Geji (singer) who plays the konghou and sings. In addition, she also performs Kunqu Opera, and she should be understood as both a singer and an actor. Because in ancient China, there were also certain differences between female opera actors and female singers and dancers. In today's China, few people distinguish the difference between prostitutes and Gejis. Directly calling Chen Yuanyuan a "prostitute" is probably a misunderstanding. In Ming and Qing dynasty documents, Chen Yuanyuan was called an actress(女优) and a Geji(歌妓). I haven't finished editing her Wikipedia article yet. Can wait two or three days before making corrections? 清风与明月 (talk) 11:22, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your advice and help. I'm going to polish this wiki first, and I hope you'll adjust it again after I'm done. Thank you. 清风与明月 (talk) 13:30, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Thanks to your contribution! Enrico Chou (talk) 01:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where are you from?Are you Chinese? 清风与明月 (talk) 08:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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May 2024

Information icon Hello, I'm Joyous!. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Heeramandi have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse or the Help desk. Thanks. Joyous! Noise! 03:58, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry for the warning. I misunderstood what you were trying to say in that edit. Perhaps using a phrase like "films with a similar focus on prostitution..." might help? Joyous! Noise! 04:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for May 14

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Dancing Girl (China) moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Dancing Girl (China). Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it needs more sources to establish notability and it has too many problems of language or grammar. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. CycloneYoris talk! 16:39, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find where the page was and it showed that it had been deleted. 清风与明月 (talk) 16:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The draft shows that it cannot be submitted. 清风与明月 (talk) 16:52, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Dancing girl (profession) (June 2)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Timtrent was:
This draft's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article. In summary, the draft needs multiple published sources that are:
Make sure you add references that meet these criteria before resubmitting. Learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue. If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.
 The comment the reviewer left was:
While it may be notable you need to support your stated facts with references to prove it
Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.
🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 10:11, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Teahouse logo
Hello, 清风与明月! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 10:11, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Dancing girl (profession) (June 2)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Timtrent was:
Resubmitted with no attempt at editing. This wastes people's time and is considered to be disruptive. Please do not just resubmit.
Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.
🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 10:46, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just want to know why it didn't pass? Where can I go to discuss editing? 清风与明月 (talk) 11:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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