Template:Did you know nominations/John Blackwell (engineer)
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- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:20, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
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John Blackwell (engineer)
... that Isambard Kingdom Brunel called John Blackwell "bigoted and obstinate" for having concerns about one of Brunel's projects—although these were proved correct?Source: "Blackwell, the canal engineer, a bigoted, obstinate, practical man [...] says the road will make the hill slip – but couldn't tell us why [...] time proved that the canal's engineer was correct and Brunel was wrong; the Warminster Road did indeed slip" (Maggs 2016, p61)
Created by MIDI (talk). Self-nominated at 12:14, 31 October 2019 (UTC).
- Article is new enough and long enough, and within other policy (multiple citations in every paragraph). The hook is within length and interesting. No access to the source, AGF that the summary here is correct. The hook is reflected in the article (but in several places throughout one paragraph) and all parts are cited. Assuming the summary of the source here in the nom is accurate, the hook is supported by the source. Good to go.
MB 03:35, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
- Article is new enough and long enough, and within other policy (multiple citations in every paragraph). The hook is within length and interesting. No access to the source, AGF that the summary here is correct. The hook is reflected in the article (but in several places throughout one paragraph) and all parts are cited. Assuming the summary of the source here in the nom is accurate, the hook is supported by the source. Good to go.
I have returned this nomination from prep because the source itself has some issues. Brunel said he didn't believe the road "would make the hill slip". The book's author then goes on to say that Blackwell proved to be correct "because the ... road did indeed slip". But Brunel wasn't referring to the road, but the hill. There may be further explanation somewhere in the source but I don't have time to look for it, so I suggest the nominator either provide some or look for an alternative hook. Gatoclass (talk) 15:28, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
- Just trying to get my head around what you're saying—my understanding is (from what you've said) that Blackwell believed that building the road would make the hill unstable and slip into the canal. Brunel didn't agree with this. Subsequently the road slipped (but not necessarily the hill, and not necessarily into the canal).
- I guess the article needs a slight rewording (so that it doesn't suggest that Blackwell's claim re: the hill was proved right) and the hook rewording too (to be honest, I could begin by removing from the dash onwards which should make the hook accurate. All in all I'm sure everything is correct but I understand that's not how things work 'round here! I suspect it's all down to an ambiguously-worded source! MIDI (talk) 09:19, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
- I've reworded the article to match the source. I'm not in a position to find an alternative source right now (unfortunately, not many exist as Blackwell's career and achievements were completely overshadowed by John Rennie). Instead, an ALT or two:
ALT 1: "... that Isambard Kingdom Brunel called John Blackwell "bigoted and obstinate" for having concerns about one of Brunel's projects?"ALT 2: "... that when John Blackwell raised concerns about the engineering of one of Isambard Kingdom Brunel's projects, Brunel called him "bigoted and obstinate"—although the works subsequently suffered a land slip?
- I'm intending the "land slip" in ALT 2 to refer to the fact the road slipped. Any suggested alternative wording/link (if necessary) would be great. MIDI (talk) 09:35, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
- ALT3: ...that John Blackwell was dismissed as bigoted by Isambard Kingdom Brunel for suggesting a landslide might be caused by a new road which was indeed lost in a landslide once built? Maggs, Colin (2016). Isambard Kingdom Brunel : the life of an engineering genius. Stroud: Amberley Publishing. p. 61. ISBN 9781445640976. ~ R.T.G 00:15, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- ALT4: ...that John Blackwell was dismissed for being "bigoted and obstinate" by English engineer Isambard Kingdom Brunel for suggesting a new road might cause a landslide, which indeed happened once the road was built?
- I've reworded the article to match the source. I'm not in a position to find an alternative source right now (unfortunately, not many exist as Blackwell's career and achievements were completely overshadowed by John Rennie). Instead, an ALT or two:
