Template:Did you know nominations/Chenail Island
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- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:22, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
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Chenail Island
... that a monument on Chenail Island (pictured) honors the families that lived there before much of the island was flooded forcing them to leave? Source: Actual monument inscription: "This monument is erected in honour of the families that were expropriated in 1961, due to the construction of the Carillon Hydro-electric dam." [1]
Created by MB (talk). Self-nominated at 03:39, 6 January 2017 (UTC).
Nominated six days after creation, and over 3000 bytes, satisfying length and date criteria. QPQ completed. Image is OK, and despite being small, is fine as a DYK thumbnail. Please replace reference 3 - it is a scraper site, and the referenced fact is an embedded Google query image result (to a Panoramio photo) on that page. I will assume good faith for references 4 and 5, which are used to support the bulk of the first paragraph in the "History" section. The phrase "was built approximately 12 mi (19 km) downstream from the island raised the water level by over 9 feet" has a citation, but I cannot find the info in the reference (this one); please add page numbers for the cited material so I can find it. (some of it may be sourced to ref 8, such as the bit about being 12 miles away.) The clause "including all of the parcels (approximately 50) on Chenail Island" is not supported by ref 8 (which does support the remainder of the sentence), but it is supported by ref 6; please update this. The single-sentence first paragraph of the "Geography" section has no sources; all paragraphs must have a source, per WP:DYKAR, rule D2 (and given this does not "summarize other cited content"). Reference 9 is self-sourcing (Chenail Cultural Centre website, about Chenail Cultural Centre and the Island House); this and this are possible substitutions, though they don't state 1832 or some other details in that paragraph. For the "Monument de la Francophonie", does the French source (here) stating "lys" mean "lily", as you've stated in the article, or "fleur-de-lys", the symbol. The section "The Snye/Le Chenail Monument" is sourced to a blog; please replace this source. I found this, which is a better source. Given that this is the subject of the hook, the hook also fails with this blog source. (Aside: I might be willing to accept it, given that it is a photograph proving the existence of the monument, and clearly showing the text, but given the availability of other sources, this isn't really necessary.) As a side effect of my review, I created the commons category Chenail Island, and also uploaded a few photos to it; this may or may not be of interest to you. Although there are quite a few things to address, most should be straightforward. Mindmatrix 16:52, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
Mindmatrix: I've moved some references and added more. I think I have taken care of everything. MB 20:35, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
@MB: Good to go, but it needs one more tweak. I'm accepting several offline refs in good faith, and the blog with the photo of the monument because it is now coupled with another reference. Although the hook is OK, can the wording be improved (say, as ALT1)? Also, flooding is not specifically mentioned in the article, so either it cannot be mentioned in the hook, or you need to add it to the article. Mindmatrix 03:54, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
ALT1:... that a monument on Chenail Island (pictured) honors the families that were forced to leave their homes before the island was flooded?
- Mindmatrix: I don't like ALT1 - it almost sounds like they left temporarily during a flood which later receded. Also the whole island wasn't flooded/submerged (or it wouldn't exist today). ALT2 removes the word flooding to match the article and is concise. And "submerged" is more "hooky". MB 22:29, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- ALT2:... that a monument on Chenail Island (pictured) honors the families that lived there before much of the island was submerged?
Good to go for ALT2. Mindmatrix 01:01, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, I came by to promote this, but cannot find the hook fact in the article. It says a monument was erected to forty families whose land was expropriated, but nothing about the land being submerged. Yoninah (talk) 22:52, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
- Yoninah: The families were expropriated because most of the island was submerged - that is the subject of the second paragraph in the history section and is well cited. I think you were only looking at the paragraph about the monument. MB 23:00, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
- OK, but unless you clearly connect (and cite) the monument to the departed families with the submerging of the land, the hook is OR. Yoninah (talk) 14:17, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
- Yoninah: Both cites of the monument clearly connect the two events by showing the inscripton on the monument: "This monument is erected in honor of the families expropriated in 1961, due to the construction of the Carillon hydroelectric dam." I'm going to ask Mindmatrix for comments also. MB 14:43, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
- Let's see: this states "land is being expropriated" and "expropriation of Sny, which includes 35 commercial and 200 residential" and "residents of an island called The Sny...object to losing their properties" as a result of the Carillon Generating Station project. And this states "the dam at Carillon, which will back water up 12 miles into the town's back yard" and "some 200 residential and commercial properties will be affected when the water goes up in the autumn of 1962". So the facts are there when coupled with the plaque, but...the issue is these refs are forward-looking, not reporting past events. With certainty, the dam was built (see Carillon Generating Station), and the water levels did rise (see, for example, this page at the city of Grenville website, already used as a ref), the land was expropriated (per plaque), that along with the forward-looking refs should probably be enough to promote this. As an aside: I found this ("Carillon Power Project going day and night", November 1961), which may be useful, but I can't access the article. Mindmatrix 00:18, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
- For another aside, please note that the coordinates are more than 30km off the mark. Please fix this. Mindmatrix 00:23, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
- Good catch on the coords, now fixed. [2] is the article you couldn't access. It really doesn't add much new, but is another source. MB 03:20, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
- I read the article through again and understand that some families' land was expropriated and some families were simply forced to leave because the land was to be flooded in preparation for the power station. All that is cited. I see the above discussion and rejection of ALT0 and ALT1, and believe that ALT2 would be better served if you just added a little more explanation, such as:
- ALT2a:
... that a monument on Chenail Island (pictured) honors the families that lived there before much of the island was submerged by the construction of a new hydroelectric power station? - Please note that I added a cn tag for the extraordinary statement: The mill complex, known as Hawkesbury or Hamilton Mills, was expanded many times into one of the most important area industries of the 19th century. Yoninah (talk) 17:26, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
- I added another citation for that sentence and slightly changed the wording. As far as the hook, I think ALT2 is better (more "hooky") because it might make a reader more likely to wonder how an island came to be submerged and want to read the article. But no real problem with ALT2a either. I'll leave the hook selection to whomever promotes. MB 18:25, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
- Good catch on the coords, now fixed. [2] is the article you couldn't access. It really doesn't add much new, but is another source. MB 03:20, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
- Yoninah: Both cites of the monument clearly connect the two events by showing the inscripton on the monument: "This monument is erected in honor of the families expropriated in 1961, due to the construction of the Carillon hydroelectric dam." I'm going to ask Mindmatrix for comments also. MB 14:43, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
- OK, but unless you clearly connect (and cite) the monument to the departed families with the submerging of the land, the hook is OR. Yoninah (talk) 14:17, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
