Talk:Zou people/Archive 1

Confusing Terminology

Zou is a name of Kuki-Chin-Mizo tribe in Manipur south district recognized by Government of India in 1954 at present,the authors article seems utopian in character.Zou is not synonymous with Zomi or Mizo or Jou or Zhou. If Zou is the name of all these people whom he mentioned why are there so many tribes and clans. Why don't they call themselves wiht one name only? The author has gone mad and crazy. It is put up to confuse younger generations and the Zou tribe/groups instead of unifying them.

Useful Ethnographic Information

This article provides useful ethnographic information; it is a contribution to the knowledge pool about the indigenous people along the Indo-Burma border. However, it needs more revision and more references to enhance its usefulness. Due to the absence of standard spelling in the past, the Zou people used different spellings (eg. Jo, Jou, Zou, Zo, etc.) at different points of time. But this problem should not be exaggerated. The history of literacy among the Zous is still very recent; so such problems are understandable.

Even in mainland India, there is a kind of craze to change place names - Calcutta to Kolkotta, Bombay to Mumbai, Madras to Chennai, Bangalore to Bangalooru. The same is true of tribe-names in Northeast India. Many of the tribe-names mentioned in colonial ethnography of Northeast India (Shendu, Siyin, Kamhau, Lushai, etc.) are hardly known and used or remembered today. Perhaps they are discarded for good. It is confusing indeed; but what can we do? Is there a politics and power behind all tribe names and place names? Or, are they happy accidents?

This is about Zou tribe (India), not about Zomi or Zo

Please don't change the original term "Zou" into Zomi or Zo or Zote of Burma and Bangladesh. The "Zou people" is an entry about the "Zou tribe" of Manipur state of India. Zomi and Zo have different entries in Wikipedia. The officially recognized term in India, i.e., "Zou" (India) has been used throughout this article for the sake of consistency. So, replacing the word "Zou" used in the original version with Zo and Zomi does not make sense! Here "Zo" (Burma) is mainly used to refer to the Zou dialectal groups of Burma since they prefer the spelling that way. This distinction is useful to achieve clarity in the present context. It's true that "Zou" is a component of the so-called Zomi group which includes several other tribes. But this aricle is purely an ethnographic description of the "Zou tribe" as it is - not as it ought to be in a future "Zomi" nationality. There is a thin line between positive description and political propaganda.

"Zo" as a generic term

1. During this modern days, many politicians, thinkers and writers propounded the name 'Zo' stands for a single community/tribe under the royal chief i.e. the Manlun, Mantuang - clans.

Thus, the Zou tribe in Manipur could not unified the others close brethens under a single notation. This gave a differential thoughts and likes amongst the Chin-Kuki-Mizo-Zomi goups.

Further Clarification: Scope of Study

This article "Zou people (India)" is primarily a description of the "Zou tribe" in Manipur. But there are two sections related to the historical background of the tribe. In this section, the narrative of Zou history is merged together with the history of other Chin-Kuki or Zomi groups because it is not possible to isolate the history of a particular community before 1956, when the Indian Govt. officially recognized the Zou as a distinct Indian tribe. Nevertheless, this article focuses only on the Zou community from the 1950s onward (as it should be).

three articles

There are three articles on the Zou. Since the other two are marked for cleanup, and I don't have the background to merge them, I have moved this article to central position and will redirect the others here. If any of you would like to salvage the info in the other articles, check the page histories at Zomi and Zou people (India and Burma). — kwami (talk) 01:00, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

• Holy moly, Kwami, what a mess. If these articles were any better (in writing and organization) it wouldn't be so hard for a non-expert to get to work in. Thanks for your help, and please feel free to help out any time here--I'm going to give it a try. Drmies (talk) 20:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Why the "Zomi" article should not be redirected here

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Burma (Myanmar)#Zou, Zo, Zomi Kuki regarding this.

Zomi is a confederation of several tribes that inhabit the North Eastern states of India, north-western Burma and parts of Bangladesh.

Zou is one such tribe under Zomi.

See this Zomia_(geography) page. "ZOMIA" was coined in 2002 by the Dutch social scientist Willem van Schendel in an article published in the geography journal Environment and Planning D: Society and Space (pp. 647–68). It is a geographical term, derived from the word "Zomi" which in the local language means ‘people that live in the mountains’. See here [1]. This "Zomia" term was further popularized by James Scott in his book "The Art of Not Being Governed" 2009 [2].

Will Kymlicka has extensively used the term "Zomi" in his books.

Go to page 238 here to find mention of Zomi [3]

And, please go through this: "Journal of Tribal Intellectual Collective India" Vol.1, Issue 2, No.4 pp. 51 to 65, December 2013, by P.Thangsuanhau & V.Jamkhanpau [4]

According to the 2001 Indian census, the population of some tribes of Manipur are listed below [5]:

1 All Scheduled Tribes - 741,141 - 100%

2 Thadou - 182,594 - 24.6%

3 Tangkhul - 146,075 - 19.7%

4 Kabui - 82,386 - 11.1%

5 Paite - 49,271 - 6.6%

6 Hmar - 42,933 - 5.8%

7 Kacha Naga - 42,013 - 5.7%

8 Vaiphui - 38,267 - 5.2%

9 Maring - 23,238 - 3.1%

10 Anal - 21,242 - 2.9%

11 Zou - 20,567 - 2.8%

12 Any Mizo (Lushai) tribes - 15,164 - 2.0%

13 Kom - 14,602 - 2.0%

14 Simte - 11,065 - 1.5%

Thadou (number 2) is a Kuki tribe

Tangkhul (number 3) [6]is a Naga tribe [7]

Kabui (number 4) is a Naga tribe

Paite (number 5) is a Zomi tribe

Vaiphei (number 8) is a Zomi tribe

Maring (number 9) is a Naga tribe

Anal (number 10) is a Naga tribe

Zou (number 11) [8] is a Zomi tribe

Simte (number 14) is a Zomi tribe

Paite, Vaiphei, Zou, Simte are Zomi tribes. Kabui, Maring, Anal are Naga tribes.

I sincerely hope this simple explanation clears all confusion.

When people search for ZOMI, they are taken to a way different, much smaller in scope, page - ZOU PEOPLE. Let me reiterate here again, the Zou people page is about a tribe, whose population is around 20,000, less than 3% of the entire Manipur's population, that belong to Zomi. What about other tribes like Paite (numbering 49,271 - 6.6% of the population of Manipur), Vaiphui (38,267 - 5.2%), Simte (11,065 - 1.5%) which find no mention in the Zou people article?

There are nine tribes that belong to Zomi: Paite, Vaiphei, Zou, Simte, Tedim Chin, Mate, Thangkhal, Gangte, Kom. The welfare of these communities/tribes are looked after by different social organisations, the apex body of which is called Zomi Council [not 'Zou Council'].

At present the following nine tribe-based organisations are the constituent members of Zomi Council:

1. Paite Tribe Council

2. Vaiphei Peoples Council

3. United Zou Organisation

4. Simte Tribe Council

5. Tedim Chin Union

6. Mate Tribe Council

7. Thangkhal Peoples Organisation

8. Gangte Tribe Council and

9. Kom Union of Manipur::::

Please do not redirect the Zomi page here anymore. Remove all copyvio materials. We will try our best to explore and reflect all the difficulties and intricacies of the Zomi/Zo identity vis-a-vis Kuki, Chin and Mizo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaphualization (talk • contribs) 16:43, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I think the editor Dougweller is a lot confused between the term "ZOU" and "ZOMI". "Zou" or "Zou People" is just one among the many tribes under "Zomi". While all "Zou/Zou People" are "Zomi", but not all "Zomi" are "Zou/Zou people". So, "Zomi" page should not be redirected to "Zou people". Sihzou (talk) 18:35, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I've replied at the project page - basically sources and groups simply do not agree. Even groups with Zomi in their name seem to be fighting for what they call the reunification of the Zo people. The Zomi Council itself only represents a section of these groups and cannot speak for all of them. What was left at the Zomi article after copyvio was removed was only about a holiday in any case. Dougweller (talk) 22:05, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Need some discussion

I have noticed some editing altering "Zo", "Zou", "Zomi", "Zo-mi" on more than one page (I think). Could some agreement be reached on this or some other talk page please? --Greenmaven (talk) 22:04, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

That's been going on for quite a while, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Burma (Myanmar). Dougweller (talk) 07:29, 4 February 2014 (UTC)