Talk:Willie Wood

Requested move 4 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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• Willie Wood (American football) → Willie Wood
• Willie Wood → Willie Wood (disambiguation)

– Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Willie Wood (American football) is a Hall of Fame American football player with longterm name recognition and national achievements. In 2019, his article received 20,428 pageviews. Willie Wood (bowler) received 1,583 pageviews in 2019. Willie Wood (golfer) received 5,899 pageviews in 2019, with over 25% of those coming in one week. And Willie Wood (footballer) only received 348 pageviews in 2019. Thus I believe Willie Wood (American football) is clearly the primary topic. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 02:49, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom. More recent pageviews show an even clearer majority of 86%. Station1 (talk) 07:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC based on pageviews and as someone recognized as one of the top in his field.—Bagumba (talk) 09:14, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom and above. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:55, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support as this is the primary article. Also, RIP Willie. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 13:37, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• Comment Seeing that i don't see the Commonwealth Games going anywhere, technically Willie Wood (bowler) winning gold medals means he has international achievements. No comment on anything else, but denying a major international tournaments achievements to focus on a one country tournament seems a bit wrong... and a bad precedent. Especially when you look at the participating nations 1990 Commonwealth Games#Participating teams and 1982 Commonwealth Games#Participating teams. GuzzyG (talk) 14:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

  GuzzyG, I don't think this proposed move denies Willie Wood (bowler) anything. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC deals with the determination of whether one of a larger group of similarly named individuals is the predominant topic. In this case, the viewership stats support the fact that Willie Wood (American football) is the primary topic when people search for "Willie Wood". This most likely has to do with the fact that American football (I think there are over 160 million NFL fans in the US alone) has a larger fanbase than bowls, which is a relatively niche sport when viewed internationally. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:29, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

  Primary topics are not based on "viewership stats". They can give you an indication, certainly, and are one piece of evidence used in the determination. But long-term significance is generally the first thing to consider, alongside common usage.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

  See my reply below to your !vote (and if there is some further discussion, I would prefer it to stay in one thread for ease of reading). « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:15, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

• Strong oppose - certainly notable, but on long-term significance Willie Wood (footballer), despite only being a one-line stub, had a successful career for Bury, scoring heavily in the top division of English football at the time, and scoring in FA Cup finals. The equivalent player today would be considered a major name. As GuzzyG notes, the bowls player also had a lot of success through his career and was a major standout star in that sport. There's no primary topic here.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:40, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

  Although I appreciate what you are saying, Willie Wood (American football) attained the highest personal (Pro Football Hall of Fame, all-pro, Pro Bowl) and team (5x National Champion) objectives in an internationally recognized sport. He played on the first Am football dynasty (the Green Bay Packers of the 60s) for the greatest Am football head coach in history (Vince Lombardi). He is considered as one of the best to ever play his game. And this isn't a result of recency bias, as he played over 50 years ago. On every criteria that WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY provides, he clearly outpaces the other Willie Woods. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC isn't as much about comparing accomplishments as it is about comparing realistic readership and search demand (as measured by page views, searches, incoming links, etc). When looking at it from that point of view, I think it is pretty clear that Willie Wood (American football) is the primary topic. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:12, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

  @Gonzo fan2007: Alright, you've convinced me. Call me a support then. Although Willie Wood footballer was successful, he never played internationally, so presumably not the creme-de-la-creme. FWIW I don't agree at all with you on "realistic readership and search demand" though. Primary topic has never been about that, because we're an encyclopedia, and long-term significance has always been considered the more important of the two factors for determination. Thus a highly decorated sportsman from 1900, who might get vastly fewer page views than a modern middle-of-the-road player, should be considered at least as primary. Obviously your Willie Wood is a cut above though, but I only started watching NFL six years ago so I only know about the likes of Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:52, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. The bowler has many international titles and an MBE. It would appear that he too is "someone recognized as one of the top in his field". No clear primary topic here unless you're American. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:27, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

  The bowler also only got 4 page views a day in 2019... so it would appear that very few people, Scots included, view him as the primary topic. Bowls is a niche sports with relatively few competitions or competitors. American football is an international sports with hundreds of millions (billions?) of fans. The question at hand is really who are most people looking for when they search for "Willie Wood". The data supports Willie Wood (American football) as that answer, ie the primary topic. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:28, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

  "International"?! Are you actually serious? The only country in which it's played seriously is the country in which it originated. Incidentally, I didn't say the bowler was the primary topic. I said there was no primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:41, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

  NFL International Series ftw. Either way, there is no way that the accomplishments of the bowler bring this group down to "no primary topic". And the search/pageviews support that. Almost no one is searching for or reading the bowler's page. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 13:54, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

  In which American teams play a couple of games overseas! Yup, very international! Wikipedia takes a true international perspective. For the most part, American football players are not known outside America. I have no doubt that lots of Americans search for info about them online, which puts the number of searches up. But most people outside America have never heard of them. That's just not a global perspective, which is what we aim for. People who play true international sports and others (like prominent politicians, actors, musicians, etc) who are known globally are often primary topics. People who play sports which are largely popular in only one country are, with a very few exceptions, not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:39, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

• Weak Support The bowler Willie Wood has a lot of notability, but I think NFL's Willie Wood just barely becomes more notable. James-the-Charizard (talk to me!) (contribs) 12:19, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sources

Sources to add:

• Radcliffe, JR (February 4, 2020). "Willie Wood's interception changed the course of first Super Bowl. Here's what else happened in legendary Packers' win". Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Retrieved February 4, 2020.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
• Bergman, Jeremy (February 3, 2020). "Hall of Fame safety, Packers legend Willie Wood dies at 83". National Football League. Retrieved February 4, 2020.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
• Kartje, Ryan (February 3, 2020). "Willie Wood, USC's first black QB and Packers great, dies at 83". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved February 4, 2020.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
• "Hall of Fame safety Willie Wood, who spent entire career with Packers, dies at 83". ESPN Internet Ventures. February 4, 2020. Retrieved February 4, 2020.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
• Goldstein, Richard (February 3, 2020). "Willie Wood, Star Defensive Back With the Green Bay Packers, Dies at 83". The New York Times. Retrieved February 4, 2020.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
• "One play from Super Bowl I, two sides of the NFL".

Leaving these here for now. Feel free to add as needed, but I will add at some point. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:34, 4 February 2020 (UTC)