Talk:Stockholm dialects

IPA

This article needs to be rewritten with IPA. The reference to the /ä/ sound is incomprehensible to a linguist. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:58, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I.e. you don't pronounce "letters", you pronounce sounds. The letters ig in Swedish "dig" (you, thee; oblique case) are pronounced roughly /ej/, although in "blodig" (bloody), they're pronounced /ig/. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Or /ɪ/, or something, maybe. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll refrain from editing the article as I can't guarantee that I'll get the terminology right, but I can provide some clarification. I'll be using Help:IPA for Swedish and Norwegian as a reference. /ä:/ refers to the sound /ɛː/ (lowered to /æː/ before /r/), which represented in orthography as ⟨ä⟩. This sound is, according to the article, realized as [eː] for some speakers, merging with /eː/ (a long ⟨e⟩). /ä/ refers to /ɛ/, the short vowel corresponding to /ɛː/. As the article says, in many dialects, including what one might call "standard" Swedish, this sound has merged with the short vowel corresponding to /eː/, which is /ɛ/ as well. I'm assuming that the article's mention of this trait declining and being replaced by the "open ä" refers to /ɛː/ being realized as [ɛː] rather than merging with /eː/, as is considered "standard". sv:Svensk fonologi#Vokaler has a table showing what graphemes correspond to what sound ("långa vokaler" = "long vowels", "korta vokaler" = "short vowels"). Here's the IPA for the Swedish words used in the article, using the same conventions as Help:IPA for Swedish and Norwegian (based on standard Swedish, I assume, so these transcriptions do not reflect for instance what this articles says regarding the use of "short u" in place of "short ö", nor the so-called "extra open a", which I'm unfamiliar with): ⟨stan⟩ /stɑːn/ [stɑːn], ⟨dörr⟩ /dœr/ [dœ̞rː] ('door'), ⟨börsen⟩ /bœrsɛn/ [bœ̞ʂːɛn] ('the stock market'/'the purse'), ⟨mjölk⟩ /mjœlk/ [mjœlːk] ('milk'), ⟨höns⟩ /hœns/ [hœnːs] ('hens'). I assume that "an r sound close to the English r sound" refers to the use of /ɹ/ and its various allophones (sometimes even a fricative transcribed as [ʐ] according to Swedish phonology). I have no idea what "a slightly nasal sound" is referring to. I also don't know how exactly the "Lidingö i" is realized.

Re that you don't pronounce "letters": You're right of course, but note that for one already somewhat familiar with Swedish, including its orthography and vowel system, there is some logic in referring to Swedish vowels sounds using their corresponding graphemes, as every vowel letter in Swedish (maybe with the exception of ⟨o⟩, which is commonly used to represent both /uː/ and /oː/ (the latter of which can be unambiguously represented as ⟨å⟩) as well as their corresponding short vowels) is recognized as having a single associated vowel (well, two vowels: one long vowel, and its corresponding short vowel), unlike in English where a letter like ⟨a⟩ commonly represents a wide range of different sounds. 213.103.209.41 (talk) 02:21, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I just realized from looking at your user page that you're actually Swedish, meaning there was no point in explaining all that... Oh well, maybe someone else stopping by will find it useful. 213.103.209.41 (talk) 02:25, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Using an article from a local newspaper like Mitt i is not okay. It clearly falls outside the definition of reliable sources. Fredrik Lindström's Svenska dialektmysterier is almost as bad, but at least has a tad more merit.

I was on the verge of putting this up for deletion, but at least soem of the info is slightly useful. If you want to describe dialects, find more relevant sources.

Peter ^Isotalo 21:37, 30 January 2015 (UTC)