Talk:State atheism

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Immediate attention

State atheism needs a reassessment of its Importance level, as it has little to do with atheism and is instead an article about anti-theist/anti-religious actions of governments.
False choice into False dilemma: discuss whether you are for or against this merge here
Clarify references in Atheism using footnotes.
Secular movement defines it as a being restricted to America in the 21st century.

Map labeling is inconsistent between views

On the article page, the map key reads:
Dark Red: Countries that formerly practiced state atheism
Light Red: Countries that currently practice state atheism

When clicking on the map, the key reads:
Dark Red: Countries that currently practice state atheism
Light Red: Countries that formerly practiced state atheism

I don't know which is accurate, but the discrepancy should be corrected. Captainakira (talk) 04:07, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

They seem to agree when I look at them. Hardyplants (talk) 04:43, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Revolutionary France Probably Shouldn't Be Here

Are there any actual laws or official acts from this time in which France declared itself atheist?

The 1789 Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen contained: "For these reasons, the National Assembly doth recognize and declare, in the presence of the Supreme Being, and with the hope of his blessing and favour, the following sacredrights of men and of citizens".

The 1791 Constitution contains: "In consequence, the National Assembly recognizes and declares, in the presence and under the auspices of the Supreme Being, the following rights of man and citizen. "

The 1793 Constitution contains: "In consequence, it proclaims in the presence of the supreme being the following declaration of the rights of man and citizen."

The Decree of the National Convention of 18 Floreal (May 7th 1794) says "The French recognise the existence of the soul and of the Supreme Being".

The 1795 Constitution contains: "The French people proclaim in the presence of the Supreme Being the following declaration of the rights of man and citizen: "

While there certainly were some atheist intellectuals that operated 1789-1799, there is a huge difference between dechristianisation, anticlericalism, and actual atheism. Enlightened thinkers were often deists that believed in a God decoupled from Christianity. Robespierre actually imposed the Cult of the Supreme Being in 1794. The non-theistic Cult of Reason was, as I understand it, first imposed by Chaumette (an unusual irreligious extremist, in the view of his fellow revolutionaries) as Mayor of Paris, was accepted by various other communities outside the capital, but was never mandated at the State level, to the point that the Convention (=the national Parliament) never partecipated to the Feasts of Reason, although some members did.

87.6.144.100 (talk) 16:20, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think that as you mentioned the Cult of Reason was an atheistic organization. But it seems less strong from what I have seen. The section has no content so it can probably be removed or moved to the antireligion pages.Ramos1990 (talk) 00:18, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The cult of reason never was atheist. lease read about the Fr. Rev before any writings.1) There never existed any French State atheism. During the French Revolution, some rules of the Terror period celebrated publicly a Deist creed.

2) The link you are referring to about the French Revolution is not so reliable. e. g. When it reffers to the Concordat, there's a confusion between a Treaty between France and the papal state (the 1801 Concordat) and an act passed by Bonaparte First Consul of the French Republic, not yet Emperor Napoleon.

3) The best translation for the French concept of "laïcité" is no secularism (which is more about society) but total disestablishment. You can't have disestablishment in a state atheism situation. What is true is that, some French politicians, rather from the right, when talking about French Laïcité, are not in laïcité but rather in laiklik, the Turkish Kemalist version whis is not a disestablishment of Islam but a submission of one religion to the state. Definitly not the same.

Acteonmako, Agregation laureate and historian (historian with long texts and footnotes!) Acteonmakon2 (talk) 14:05, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References?

Are all the "References" listed really used in the article? Editor2020 (talk) 23:11, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. An editor changed the format from the usual cite referencing format to this. There are numerous pages from the same source used in some of the citations so it seems helpful in that it reduces duplicate referencing.Ramos1990 (talk) 02:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Editor2020 (talk) 18:35, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Issues

Religious people have nearly always discriminated against people of other religions or people of non-religion, Christians, for example have said that anyone who doesn't believe in god, or doesn't believe in the "right" god are going to the fictitious place known as hell. History has proven that religious people have been far more discriminatory and violent. Proletarian Banner (talk) 22:08, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The phrasing "Soviet Communism" is technically oxymoronic and should be Soviet socialism, but since that's a quote well... There is also, besides oxymoronic phrasing, the presence of a blatant hypocrisy as stated above, they call State Atheism a form of political repression but historically religious individuals have been far more repressive. Proletarian Banner (talk) 22:12, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That seems irrelevant to state atheism, and doubly irrelevant to this talk page which is improvement of the coverage of state atheism. North8000 (talk) 22:43, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Map is inconsistent with article

Map shows that Cuba currently practices state atheism, while the article says they stopped that practice in 2019. 2603:8000:D341:6100:DD0B:AA23:4B64:4D62 (talk) 04:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]