Talk:Speedball (drug)

Shannon Hoon

Shannon Hoon's death was not a speedball. It was after a cocaine binge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.55.34.10 (talk) 01:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I heard it was a heroin overdose. Maybe using heroin after a cocaine binge is not both used together in a syringe at the same time so not a speedball *per se* but the same components. 65.102.8.249 (talk) 08:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The name is no longer listed. Guy Macon (talk) 17:48, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

including non dead

Should a person who is not dead (Gahan) be included in a list of individuals whose deaths were caused or contributed to by taking a speedball? 67.109.59.194 00:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

If he didn't die, he didn't die. I fixed it, but in the future, be bold. —Ben FrantzDale 11:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Velvet Acid Christ song

Probably not relevant, but there's a VAC song called "Speedball O.D." You could put it in the popular culture section I guess. I'm just posting this to get the O.K. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.107.65 (talk) 00:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't include it unless the song has its own page. Carl.bunderson (talk) 21:36, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

"150 years ago"?

My English isn't that good, so I'm just asking that as a question: is "as long as 150 years ago" acceptable as a date? I mean, wouldn't it be more accurate if the sentence stated something like "sometime in the middle of 19th century"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.61.137.186 (talk) 22:30, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Deleted sentence about Meth

I deleted the following statement from the article

Though not commonly referred to as a speedball, substituting cocaine with methamphetamine can exclude this risk.

Until there is a citation it should stay out. If it's not true and someone tries it they could be in big trouble. I have no problem with putting information about drug usage in Wikipedia, but when someone's suggesting a way to avoid overdosing on heroine by combining it with meth, and there's no citation, well... find a citation first. Torgo (talk) 04:42, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Agree 100%. 121.79.18.28 (talk) 10:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

You exclude the risk because methamphetamine lasts longer than heroin and you (can) instead overdose on meth when the heroin wears off. Cocaine lasts shorter than heroin so the heroin is what kills you when the coke wears off. See? However, meth (speed) and heroin together is *not* a speedball regardless. Also the rush is not the same (However, in the U.S. is it way easier to find high purity methamp than high quality coke so many believe the meth rush is more intense, but in actuality it is nearly nonexistent compared to a good cocaine onset; this reflects its more extreme hygroscopic nature in comparison to meth and it's attestation to its much greater binding affinity.) A rush from a big coke shot is entirely different than a rush from a big meth shot, also because of the extreme dependence on the metabolitic pathways shared by both heroin and cocaine (both being complex, natural molecules rather than a simple synthetic one like methamphetamine is: their natural nature gives them many actions on many receptors that follow and create many metabolites themselves) they potentiate one other more because they compete for the same liver enzymes and other metabolite pathways rather than the alien to metabolism forced internalization of DAT that the amphetamine class of drugs causes. The reinforcing of endorphin emulating activity which heroin causes releases dopamine anyway, so a strong reuptake inhibitor which does not release (cocaine) works better in conjunction with heroin than a very weak reuptake inhibitor that releases (methamphetamine). 65.102.8.249 (talk) 08:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok, but your still going to need a reliable medical source if you want to put any of that information into the article. Freikorp (talk) 08:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Jean-Michel Basquiat

Though the speedball statement is sourced, the Wikipedia article for Basquiat contradicts this with two sources stating the cause of death to be heroin overdose. ᛭ LokiClock (talk) 06:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, perhaps we should add here that alternate cause of death has been reported as heroin only overdose? Freikorp (talk) 07:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Done due to no objections; I have also done this for Chris Farley - hopefully this will stop people repeatedly adding and removing him. Freikorp (talk) 00:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Attested sources for the subjective perception of "bell-ringer" or "ear-ringer" from coke and qualification of that by co-administration of heroin/morphine?

Having IV'd speedballs myself, I can colloquially claim a major subjective difference in the, normally high pitched squealing, audio distortion heard after cocaine is IV'd, and the deep bass low octave rumble of that same cocaine audial effect when co-administered with a opioid narcotic such as heroin, dilaudid (most fitting for coke) or morphine etc. which brings its pitch way down. If there is a notable source for this, even a musician or celebrity stating it, such would be a welcome (because from my own experience notable and correct, though that is not enough) contribution to this wikipedia article. Nagelfar (talk) 23:02, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Recent addition of unreferenced content (January 2011)

You may have noticed a large amount of claims about the drug have recently been added to the article. The new information needs references in at least 6 places; the only reference it currently has cites a book with no ISBN, page number or publisher (I have found newer versions of said book available online however I have no way of telling if the content referenced in the older version of that book still appears in the newer versions). I have no problem with this information if it is referenced well. Considering the page was previously well referenced and some of these claims are dubious, I am posting this to let other users know I will completely remove this new data in a month or two if no references are found. Freikorp (talk) 08:53, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. --Freikorp (talk) 22:09, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

etymology section

The section on etymology is completely wrong. It seems a bunch of folks are laying claim to the discovery of the combination of drugs, and each one is given a bullet point in the section. I only read it twice but I couldn't see that a single one of the bullet points was certainly about the origin of the term, "speedball." Two of the bullet points say that someone discovered it by trial and error. I guess you would have to be on drugs of some kind to discover terminology by trial and error. Not sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.84.63 (talk) 00:03, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, removed as per my previous post here. --Freikorp (talk) 22:09, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

A sentence from the article: "In general, the joint use with cocaine is done to avoid the sedative effect of heroin." That is not cited. Further, as a person who has worked with addicts, it is perhaps more likely that the combination is the result of cocaine addicts using the heroin to cut the edge off of cocaine withdrawals (i.e 'tweeking' or 'geeking'). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.206.249.55 (talk) 23:16, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Dubious

It says that cocaine wears off faster than heroine. But heroine has a much shorter half-life, and I don't like the source provided for this info: it looks like a wiki. can anyone with medical knowledge take a look at this? Or just find a source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chamberlian (talk • contribs) 20:19, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

duration of effects and half life aren't necessarily related. half life means the time it takes blood plasma concentration of the substance to halve, the duration of effects might be affected by many factors, such as absorption in the tissues, and maybe the work of active metabolites, and can not be deduced from the drug's half life. lsd for example, has a half life of 4 hours or so, and is active for about 10-14 hours, diazepam on the other hand has a half life of more than 20 hours but the effects only last about 4 hours. in regard to the matter at hand, the effects from an average dose of cocaine will dissipate after about 30-40 minutes, compared to 3-4 hours with morphine/heroine. you can probably find references for the duration of effects on the pages for cocaine and heroin. I'm removing the dubious statement, as this is definitely true, and possibly life saving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.163.102.219 (talk) 11:29, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Terrible source

The source listed at the end of the physiology subsection is not reliable. It seems to be an open "yahoo answers" style website, and explicitly states that it does not guarantee accuracy in the answers. I have removed the source link and added a "needs additional citations" template. However I have left the information there since it sounds plausible and I don't wish to challenge it myself. Revoran (talk) 09:30, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Lowell George

The citation for the claim that Lowell George died from speedballs does not actually support it. It merely notes that his "fondness for cocaine-and-heroin 'speedballs' was notorious". I'm updating the article to citation needed Dpurrington (talk) 14:19, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Manner protonated

"cocaine hydrochloride mixed with morphine sulfate"

Isn't it likely that earlier forms of morphine were morphine HCl or morphine hydrochloride as well as cocaine hydrochloride? I thought the sulfate was used in pills more likely because of issues of oral bioavailability and onset. 66.96.79.223 (talk) 22:24, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Famous Deaths

Should Roy Halladay be included in the list of deaths? The forensic pathologist examining his body after he crashed his plane stated that "he had a drug combination similar to a speedball. He was impaired by these drugs. It was definitely not safe for him to fly an airplane."

If so, it would seem to be a heavy contributing factor to his death.

Additionally, George V of Britain was euthanized by his personal doctor, who admitted that "he hastened the King's death by injecting him, after 11.00 p.m., with two consecutive lethal injections: ​3⁄4 of a grain of morphine followed shortly afterwards by a grain of cocaine." (from the George V article), which sure sounds like a speedball.

DavidKVT (talk) 21:30, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

An airplane crash and two consecutive lethal injections—an anaesthetic dose of morphine large enough to down a horse, followed by a lethal dose of cocaine—are not speedballs. Besides, you need a source that explicitly calls the deaths speedballs, otherwise it's original research by synthesis. DrKay (talk) 07:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@DrKay:, so unless media sources used a specific regional/temporal slang term, exactly the same manner of death is not included? Okay then... Jdcooper (talk) 10:52, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

It's not just that. It's not the same manner of death. Deliberate euthanasia with consecutive lethal injections is not a speedball. A speedball is a recreational single injection or insufflation. DrKay (talk) 10:59, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@DrKay: The article this Talk section about has the following definition: "Speedball (or powerball) is a mixture of cocaine (a stimulant) with heroin or morphine (an opioid) or sometimes benzodiazepine, taken intravenously or by nasal insufflation". Your word, "recreational", does not appear in the article. Either the article should be updated, to state that a speedball should never be intended to be fatal (with appropriate source, please), or such medical admininistrations of speedballs should be admissible. JonathanZ 20:30, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

As I said, he wasn't given a mixture. That's clear in all the sources. The sources are also clear that it was euthanasia. None of them call it a speedball. DrKay (talk) 19:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree with DrKay. If he wasn't given a mixture it wasn't a speedball. Damien Linnane (talk) 22:16, 19 April 2021 (UTC)