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There is no point in continuing this. There were some good faith attempts to discuss the matter but the IPs derailed it every time. Eventually the whole IP range got blocked for disruption.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Tamil being the oldest language in the world than Sanskrit needs to be included in displaying shiva's name. Shiva himself spoke that language and it cannot be neglected because of hatredness towards it! 122.164.84.18 (talk) 07:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Shiva himself is a mythological figure and we don't know what language he spoke. There is no reason to include Tamil in this and the Brahma article over any other Indian language. If we have Tamil in the lead someone will add Kannada, and then Oriya, and then Malayalam, and before you know we've got every Indian language represented before you even get to the first sentence.
Does anyone else agree/disagree? Dāsānudāsa (talk) 09:51, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's your ignorance to state that all other language people would ask to add theirs if we add Tamil. The reason to add Tamil is that it is the oldest language than Sanskrit. It is not wrong to add Sanskrit represting North Indian language and likewise Tamil for a Dravidian language. Since all other Dravidian languages were born from Tamil and Sanskrit together! Shiva is not a mythological figure, he's not some iron man or super man. He is person who lived and became immortal. He spoke Tamil and we have ample evidence for that ex. Sage Agastya! It is your biased nature to not include tamil thinking other language people would ask for the same. That can't be entertained as we soley only have Tamil and Sanskrit as the first languages spoken in Bharath 122.164.84.18 (talk) 11:28, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
122, this article's lede is not the place to re-fight old linguistic battles over the primacy and age of Sanskrit and Tamil. Please establish consensus for inclusion instead of edit-warring. Personally, I am okay with the article lede as it is or even with removing the Devanagari spelling (while leaving in the Romanization and IPA, since they provide important information about pronunciation). But again wait for consensus before changing the stable version. Abecedare (talk) 14:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You first wait for consensus before removing it. Same here, it is not the place for linguistic battles. Tamil is the oldest classical language even before Sanskrit existed! If you can have your preferred classical language, why not tamil as it is the oldest one of all. It is your ignorance and personal bias which is the actual problem. Shiva spoke tamil and being the oldest language in the world, it must be included!!!! 122.164.84.18 (talk) 14:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is very clear that Tamil should be included as Shiva spoke it. We cannot just neglect something that is of real importance because of your personal bias! As the oldest language, it is not morally right for someone to add Sanskrit and neglect Tamil. 122.164.84.18 (talk) 14:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
1. It's not the oldest language, and even if it was that wouldn't warrant inclusion here on its own. 2. Agastya is not a reliable source. 3. Accusing other editors of having biases is a personal attack 4. You're on 3 reverts now so if you try and edit-war to force through your changes again you're heading for a block Dāsānudāsa (talk) 15:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Tamil is the oldest language and just that you are not aware of it properly. You need to do some research to know it. If Sankrit can warrant a inclusion to describe names at the starting of every important religious Indian page, why can't tamil warrant an inclusion as it's the most familiar and 1st language of this country! There is no point in giving facts to biased mindsets! The point of adding Sanskrit is because of its classic origination. Tamil has more classical origination and can be taken as the language which gods spoke it. All evidence is present that Tamil is the oldest language of this earth! 122.164.83.29 (talk) 21:43, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
122, Sanskrit is presumably included to explain the etymology of the name "Shiva" for the subject of this article; see also Encyclopedia Britannica. Arguments over which language is oldest, first, classical etc are irrelevant to this article and discussion page. Abecedare (talk) 21:51, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The problem itself is using only Sanskrit to show etymology of a word. Tamil is more classical and older to show etymology of any word. It's your wrong perception that i am arguing, I am just educating your ignorance. 122.164.86.143 (talk) 09:36, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Tamil language template is used in Hinduism-related articles for texts and deities of Tamil origin in the lead, such as Mariamman, Murugan, and Valli. This is a reasonable convention that does not need to be expanded for chauvinistic reasons. Chronikhiles(talk) 12:01, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with @Abecedare and @Chronikhiles here. Sanskrit is generally used to explain the etymology for terms such as "Shiva", but "Shiva" being Tamil or North Indian should not be relevant here (though with proper citation, the Tamil/North Indian and relation with "Rudra" can be discussed somewhere in some section/sub-section). Asteramellus (talk) 22:56, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Chronikhiles Exactly it's you who's trying to bring up a chauvinistic reason by potraying mariamman and Valli as Tamil origin gods and Shiva as some North Indian god. Tamil language existed even before a single letter of Sanskrit was invented, so it is not wrong to regard it at first place instead of Sanskrit. What is the sole purpose of using only Sanskrit as primary etymology! That itself was brought up because of some biased thought years back when giving it for all Hindu gods. 122.164.86.184 (talk) 11:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A) No one claimed that Shiva is a "North Indian" god.
B) The age of the Tamil language is irrelevant to this discussion.
C) As stated before, the consensus is that the etymology of Shiva is Sanskrit.
D) Your perception bias is irrelevant to this discussion. Chronikhiles(talk) 14:10, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The why did you justify by saying mariamman and Valli can regarded as Tamil gods. First learn and don't be ignorant. Mariamman is Shakti, Shiva' wife. Just that she is in a different form. The age of Tamil is relevant because if an language like Sanskrit can be included then tamil having its own classical nature can be included. It's not consensus etymology that Sanskrit was included, it was included because of biased nature. You first of all came into this discussion knowing nothing, only just burning for you since i put Sanskrit down to tamil. You change and bias and get educated! @Chronikhiles122.164.86.184 (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You first change and don't be biased and ignorant with knowledge! 122.164.86.184 (talk) 17:16, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
First of all you people supporting have no open mindedness and no clever perception at all! That's why you ask Sanskrit to keep it as etymology reference when there are other more classical Indian languages. Grow up 122.164.86.184 (talk) 17:20, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Nilkanth (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:02, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Request to semi- protect this article
There is high level of Vandalism done by both anonymous and non-confirmed users on this article daily,so please atleast semi- protect this article like other popular articles on Hindu gods. Hbanm (talk) 09:45, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
There may be an issue with the article. Under the section "Forms and depictions", in the sub-section "Ascetic and householder" is the following sentence: "As a family man and householder, he has a wife, Parvati and two sons, Ganesha and Kartikeya". If I know my grammar right, there should be a comma after "Parvati", because, if there isn't any, it sounds like his wife's name is "Parvati and two sons". If someone could add this comma, that would be great. Thank you in advance, and have a nice day!
90.139.189.126 (talk) 15:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Add the film Oppenheimer to the section on popular culture. Oppenheimer reads Sanskrit and considers himself like a kind of Shiva for creating a nuclear bomb. 5.27.6.147 (talk) 07:10, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done:: A third-party source which discusses this would be required and you have not supplied one. Skyerise (talk) 11:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
semi protected edit request Countries of worship
Shiva is also widely worshipped in Mauritius, Thailand and Sri Lanka. These have some of the oldest idols and biggest temples of the deity. Can someone edit countries of worship please. Reena.shiva (talk) 18:00, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done:: A third-party source which discusses this would be required and you have not supplied one. Skyerise (talk) 11:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)