Talk:Pre-Arawakan languages of the Greater Antilles

Name

What sources use the term "Ciboney languages" for these languages? I can't seem to find any. None of the given sources appear to; in the more recent Languages of the Pre-Columbian Antilles by Julian Granberry and Gary Vescelius, Guanahatabey is tentatively linked with Macoris, but Ciguayo is separate. There is no mention of Ciboney languages; if anything that header would apply to the Taino dialects of the Cuban Ciboney and other Western Tainos.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:43, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

You know, I can't remember. It was evidently a list-classification that wasn't worth citing, or might have been simply "Ciboney language" which I discovered wasn't a single language. It wouldn't surprise me if the name's been abandoned, given that it's a misnomer. We could move it to a descriptive title if it's no longer used in the lit. — kwami (talk) 01:41, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

To preserve the page history, we might could move it to Macoris language as per Granberry and Vescelius, and rewrite it per their construction (where it includes two varieties of Macoris and tentatively Guanahatabey).--Cúchullain ^t/c 02:48, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Excellent map, Kwamikagami, well done. I wonder if you might make a few changes as per Granberry and Cescelius: changing "Ciboney" to "Ciboney Taíno", "Taíno" to "Classic Taíno".--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:57, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Okay. Hope I got Trinidad right. Could also put a cite on the map, maybe.

If we abandon this article, maybe we should move to Guanahatabey, since AFAICT that's where the confusion with Ciboney started, and for most sources that may be all it ever was. — kwami (talk) 17:51, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

I think the current descriptive title works fine. This way we can discuss what there is to say about all three (there's not much for any of them). At some point I'll create articles for the Macoris and Ciguayo peoples; at least we'll have something to link to. I'm not sure about Trinidad and Tobago, Granberry's map doesn't include them or say much in the text. I think there was change over time there.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:38, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

G&V often called the classic taino just "taino" and the ciboney taino just "ciboney", so I put the additional words in a slightly smaller font.

Starting article stubs on the three languages. — kwami (talk) 20:35, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Shoot, sorry, it's "Classic Taino" (not "Classical"). G & V note that there's a difference between the languages and the peoples in some cases - for instance the Lucayans probably spoke what G&V call "Ciboney Taino" but they were not Ciboney (no idea why they didn't just call it "Western Taino"). Similarly the "Eastern Taino" spoke Classic Taino.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:48, 29 July 2015 (UTC)