Talk:Paschal greeting

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A brief note on Church Slavonic:

It is not merely a form of Russian, nor did it originate in Russia. It, and the Cyrillic alphabet, were developed specifically in conjunction with mission work among the Bulgars--south Slavs and then spread northward.

You are confusing Old Church Slavonic with Church Slavonic language. It is also my fault: the link Church Slavonic I used is a wrong redirect; I am to make it into a disambiguation page. Modern church slavonic was so heavily modernized that it can hardly be placed into the south branch. It is rather a synthetic language of its own. Mikkalai 20:52, 12 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the clarification. I guess that means that Church Slavonic may be the only Western Indo-European language that is purely liturgical Dogface 02:19, 13 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
In regards to Glagolitic alphabet--this was only used for "Old Church Slavonic". By the time Old Church Slavonic converted to Church Slavonic, the Cyrillic alphabet was in use.

What's particularly interesting is how one can look at similarities and differences within language groups in this greeting. Of course, the greeting is "artificial" in the sense that it will probably maintain more archaic forms ("Truly He is risen!" is not quite ordinary modern English word order, for example), but it's interesting, nonetheless. Dogface 02:19, 13 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

It seems a little silly to have the phrase in Yiddish, which is the traditional language of European Jews. A Jew would never say "Christ is risen" as a greeting. The Yiddish should be removed.

Object vehemently. You mix up ethnics and religion. When the Old Catholic Church was formed in the 19th century, it attracted many Jewish converts in Austrian lands, not only Austria, but also Czechia and Southern Poland. Many of them continued to speak Yiddish. The Old Catholic church, like the Anglican church knows the Pachal greeting. Of course, in one sense you are right: there are probably no or paractically no people alive today who would use the Paschal greeting in Yiddish - thanks to another great Austrian (yes, I know that is a Godwin). But if the greeting is attested (and many Orthodox websites mention it) it must stay. No need to kill these people a second time. --Pan Gerwazy 19:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Very interesting. thanks. What about Rastafarian? That is more clearly a religion than a linguistic/ethnic group, no? Do Rastafarians, inasmuch as they might have an Ethiopian Orthodox background, say this? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 12:53, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to Google, Paschal greeting is the more common form. Should the article be moved there? Dori | Talk 04:25, May 13, 2004 (UTC)

Is there a reference for the Quenya translation? It strikes me as incorrect as given. First, Tolkien himself used "Hristo" for Christos in Quenya and didn't attempt to translate it. In this he followed most real-world languages from Latin to Slavonic to English which tend to adapt the Greek word to local morphology. Second, the verb appears to be a simple past tense (misspelled) and not the aorist as in Slavonic and (if I'm not mistaken) Greek. Third, why not use a pronoun in the response like everyone else does? Fourth, "anwa" for "truly" is incorrect. "Anwa" means "true"; the adverb is "anwavë". Fifth, word order as in English is perfectly acceptable; in Quenya it's more a matter of taste than anything else. (Source for all this is the Ardalambion)

So what we have here, back-translated, is "Christ rose! Christ true rose!" which is plainly amiss. I suggest instead "Hristo orta! Anwavë Ortas!" (Orta: singular aorist from orta-, rise; Ortas: the same with third person pronomial ending -s. This should possibly be ortáro, which has a third person masculine pronomial ending; the third person pronouns in Quenya are obscure and Tolkien revised them -- or maybe not -- after LoTR.) I'm far from a Quenya expert though, so I'll gladly yield to an expert opinion if someone can turn one up. Csernica 05:05, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Modified according to the advice of the kind people at Mellonath Daeron. If the Tengwar is misspelled, I invite correction. Csernica 23:13, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Harisutosu is used by Orthodox Christians in Japan primarily because Orthodox Christianity was brought to Japan by Russians, who have a pronunciation of "Christ" that is closer to that of the Greek "chi". Thus, the sound is "softer" than the more typical "K" sound used by Western Christians, who took their pronunciation primarily from Latin.

Some Dutch protestants also pronounce a guttural fricative (close to ch in Scottish loch). As a result, in the Dutch Paschal greeting for the Netherlands, both pronunciations are possible. The Netherlands version is based on Dutch protestant tradition, by the way. The Belgium version which I inserted, is probably based on Roman Catholic tradition, and the "ch" of "Christus" is always pronounced "k" in Belgium.--Pan Gerwazy 19:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Serbian

I added the Macedonian form just now, but I think the Serbian one may be wrong. I always thought it was Hristos Vaskrse! Vaistinu Vaskrse!. --Daniel Tanevski talk 05:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. [1] TCC (talk) (contribs) 07:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

malayalam version

Is "uyirthezhunnettu" actually correct? I would have thought it to be ഉയര്ന്നെഴുന്നേറ്റു "uyarnnezhunnēttu", unless it is an archaism. --Grammatical error 19:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Esperanto

The pope uses in his Easter greetings the phrase: Feliĉan paskon en la ĝojo de Kristo resurektinta, not leviĝinta. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.125.156.31 (talk) 11:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Yiddish

Between the January 7, 2007 and Feburary 6, 2007 revisions, the Yiddish greeting was removed. I see no reason why a Yiddish greeting should not be part of the page. I agree with Pan Gerwazy above that a Yiddish-language form is appropriate in a page like this, even if few if any Yiddish speakers would use it; it is completely possible that Yiddish speakers could join a tradition in which such greetings are used, and then use them in their own language. I suggest that we put the Yiddish back in. (I haven't ventured to do so myself, since I'm brand new to Wikipedia and am not yet quite sure of protocol for these things.) Steorra 02:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I put it back in. That is, I found a Yiddish version which in my view has a broader base than the older version, some of the people who quoted it were not Orthodox, but this one is, and seems authoritative enough. If people object, they can add "or: Der Meschiache" as was done on Russian wiki. In fact, the guy who deleted it, was responsible for improving Wikipedia ... --Pan Gerwazy 23:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know enough Yiddish to discuss which translation is better. But I'm not as confident as you are about the reliability of that source. It's definitely Orthodox, but I'm not sure it's based on any particular knowledge of the languages involved; I believe I've spotted several mistakes.Steorra 05:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yiddish has been removed again. I suggest that it be replaced unless it was removed for being inaccurate; perhaps the person who removed it can say so if that is why they removed it. Steorra (talk) 23:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Prior to Orthodox Easter

There is a Greek saying prior to the day of Orthodox Easter. Does anyone know what that is? --Son (talk) 02:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Many say Kalo Pascha or Kali Anastasi. 96.240.74.123 (talk) 14:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

really now

Is it proper to have the elmer fudd and klingon entries in there? Elmer fudd isn't even a language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurricane Omega (talk • contribs) 00:34, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you're giong to have Esperanto, you should have Klingon, too -- in terms of number of speakers, it's comparable. I'd agree that "Elmer Fudd" is absurd, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.83.8 (talk) 01:59, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Church Slavonic vs. Russian

Although most of the people in Russia would still use Church Slavonic form (Христос Воскрес_е_, Воистину Воскрес_е_!), correct Russian form of the greeting will not have final "e" at the end of the verb, thus it should be Христос Воскрес! Воистину Воскрес!

And by the way, ХРИСТОС ВОСКРЕСЕ! :) --Nick Pchelin (talk) 19:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

COMPLETELY copied

This page was COMPLETELY copied from the Orthodox Wiki (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Paschal_greeting). What gives? 70.179.114.157 (talk) 17:28, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the Orthodox Wiki page was originally copied from an earlier version of the Wikipedia page: (http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Paschal_greeting&action=history). And the pages aren't identical - probably both have received different edits since then, and sometimes one page may have been edited on the basis of the other, and vice versa. This does point to a problem, though, with lists of phrases like this: they're often compiled by people who have more enthusiasm for the subject than knowledge of the different languages involved. It's easy for an error to spring up in one list and be spread to others that copy from it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steorra (talk • contribs) 03:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Greek interwiki

I moved the Greek interwiki link to Paschal troparion since that actually seemed to be the subject of the target article. 192.91.171.36 (talk) 21:15, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The picture

I suggest that the present picture showing a politician be removed and replaced with Christ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.220.60 (talk) 05:46, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Slovak "also not used"

What is the point or meaning of the "also not used" addition in the Slovak entry? What does it mean, and what does the "also" refer to ? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 00:17, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Greeting

The article says "Similar responses are also used in the liturgies of other Christian churches, but not so much as general greetings."

This is not correct. In the Lutheran church for instance people definitely use this greeting in the United States. Same for the Episcopal / Anglican church. As a greeting, not just as liturgy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.81.1 (talk) 08:55, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There are other churches where it really is used only in the liturgy and not as a greeting. As for the claim that it is used as a greeting by some Lutherans and Anglicans, do you have a source? I would be genuinely surprised if that was a widespread practice. Ohff (talk) 04:39, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is common in German Methodist churches. --WiseWoman (talk) 22:07, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Grew up Lutheran (LCMS), we said "Christ is Risen" "He is risen indeed, alleluia!" as a greeting. Us kids gained a little amusmement out of repeating it at anyone who neglected the "alleluia" at the end. Not sure where I could find a citeable source though. Gsnerd (talk) 18:03, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This restrictive phrase bothered me as well. I've been a member of Protestant and Roman Catholic churches, and attended Presbyterian, Methodist, other UCC churches, Baptist, and Lutheran Easter worship services. The phrase "Christ is risen!" and the congregation's response of "He is risen indeed!" is common across many, many Christian churches. So I added this fact, and yes, I did the research (on Easter Sunday - considered it part of my Easter celebration) and included several references. There are many, many, many more available but I thought that would be overkill. CountryMama27 (talk) 16:11, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Languages

I am not so comfortable with having an ever-expanding list of foreign languages for this greeting. Editors are much quicker to add text than citations, and it is difficult to verify something in a foreign language. Also, this is English Wikipedia. I can understand the desire to have a few representative samples in languages that are commonly spoken, so for now, I've kept the Greek and Church Slavonic. But please, when adding a greeting, provide a citation to some kind of source that an English speaker can visit and see that it is not "Your mother was a hamster!" Thanks. Elizium23 (talk) 00:50, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Should definitely include Latin, the liturgical language of Western Europe for many centuries... AnonMoos (talk) 06:44, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It has been brought to my attention that the full list of translations was split to List of translations of the Paschal greeting. Elizium23 (talk) 07:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then there probably shouldn't be a bulleted list on this article. Greek and Latin are still important enough to be included on the article, though... AnonMoos (talk) 07:50, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Examples in a separate article

Last year, the examples were moved into a separate article without discussion. The main article was already designed as a list: WP:SALLEAD requires some form of lead section to a list, which this supplies, whereas the list on its own has no context. Should the list be moved back to its original home? AndrewNJ (talk) 07:51, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nearing a WP:AFD on the list article. We have discussed it some on WP:VPP#Articles which include extensive non-English translations and I do not believe the article should exist. Certainly not without extensive sources. Elizium23 (talk) 12:26, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Elizium23, I would support deletion of this, utterly inappropriate for an encyclopedia article, unclear why we need every translation of this particular phrase. Or just redirect or prod it. Reywas92Talk 20:05, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of translations of the Paschal greeting Elizium23 (talk) 20:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

traditional use in Latin rites

? Happy Easter or some version of Joyeuses Paques. I've never heard of read "Christ is risen!" as a traditional Latin rite greeting. --142.163.195.18 (talk) 17:25, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Theories of Origin

In researching the phrase, I found two competing theories on the origin, and added those, with a few references, to the wiki page. It's important to note the history of the Paschal greeting, though where and when it started, and whether it stems from biblical references or Christian stories seems equally important.

If more references are needed, please add or request. There were many theological debates on the origin, as well as church official stances on side versus the other. I'm not a theologian; it would be great to have someone with expertise add more depth to the greeting's origin and history. CountryMama27 (talk) 16:11, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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