Talk:Papier-mâché

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Lots of inaccurate data is circulating on papier-mâché in Kashmir Valley (India). It is claimed that it came to Kashmir from Central Asia or Persia. Neither is true and solid data is anticipated to be published on this in a year or two. Also technically Kashmir is the Central Asian region of India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:A180:F700:171:866B:5EAD:A369 (talk) 05:15, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Section

The following section was removed from the article per WP:NOT Insert non-formatted text here===Simple recipe for papier-mâché===

Materials 1. 2½ cups flour

2. 2 cups water

3. Large Mixing Bowl

4. Newspaper cut into long, thin strips.

5. Something to put the papier-mâché on; ex: balloon, as shown in the picture above

Procedure

1. Mix materials in large bowl using either hands or large fork. Mix until the substance is a liquidy paste.

2. Now you can dip the strips of Newspaper into the paste and put it on whatever you want to cover, like a balloon, as shown above.

3. If you'd like, you can decorate your artwork with paint, makers, etc. once it's finished drying.

For an alternate and easy papier-mâché, simply use liquid starch in place of the recipe above. Be sure you skim the excess off of the paper strips before you lay them flat, and don't use more than four layers. Overlap your paper.

Needed Information

  • Other historical artistic uses of papier-mâché.
  • Current use of papier-mâché in Art

I can lay hands on some issues of Sculptor or some such magazine talking about the latter, but not this week.

Hello. I've eyed this Wikipedia page with interest for some time. I've considered attempting to contribute to the article. But in the end, it has a sort of self-serving feel to it so I haven't. But this inquiry about current use of paper mache in art is my chance to at least offer some information. I developed a non-traditional paper mache technique in the early 1980s by introducing cloth to the process. I detailed my methods in my book, "The Simple Screamer: A Guide to the Art of Papier and Cloth Mache" (1984, Gibbs Smith Publisher, Layton, Utah) where I coined the phrase "Cloth Mache". This book was in print for more that 22 years and greatly influenced the way paper mache is currently done. If you google paper mache and my name, Dan Reeder, you will find dozens of references to my books and my methods. I bring this up only to point out that there is a semi-revolution going on out in the paper mache world with the kinds of art projects being made. I love this medium and believe that it has unlimited potential in the art world. I'm not bringing this up to promote my own work or to sell anything (although I do sell books on the subject). I just think my hybrid method is and has been an important contribution to the subject of paper mache and worthy of mention. You can find more information about paper and cloth mache as well as galleries of works made with my techniques at my site, www.gourmetpapermache.com. Thank you for the opportunity to finally add my two cents to this discussion. Danmonsterman (talk) 02:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please add information on the use of paper mache in the production of stereotype printing plates during the 19th century? The page on stereotype plates indicates that one form of molds used in that process was paper mache with a link to this page, but no mention of it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.58.87 (talk) 13:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

also needed

Some information about the Chinese precursor--new to me. And wasn't p.m. or something like it used for making the first stereotype plates in the 19th c.?DGG 04:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edited image?

A look at the edited image that was deleted from article by original contributor. Gregorydavid 00:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hello Gregorydavid, Here is the explanation: the original photograph which I had taken myself and uploaded to Wikipedia and linked in to different related wikis, this one among them, was tampered with. That alteration of my photograph was totally unacceptable. (I did not even know that such a thing can be done to wiki images...). I took out the image code on each of the wikis where the image was featured. Then I whited out the bastardized version in the image file. This was the only way to get rid of it. I wish this had not happened because the picture was a good and useful one. But the tampering made it necessary for me to take this step. I hope that clarifies it. CulturalUniverse 00:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gregorydavid, I took the liberty to remove the empty image frame from this post because it looks quite silly and I have furnished the explanation (see above). I hope this is satisfactory. Thank you.CulturalUniverse 01:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello CulturalUniverse, I had a look at the blanked image and then the History Page and saw that a caption had been cropped off. This seems to have happened before where sources shown on images are cut off by Wikipedians. Gregorydavid 01:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Papier Mache Bicycle?

Call me cynical, but I'm sceptical about the papier mache bicycle. I can't find the concept or name in Google, and it seems just too far-fetched. Can anyone give references for this or is it an elaborate scam? I'm very willing to be disabused, because I'd love to include this information in a children's book about paper, but can't unless I'm convinced it's not a hoax! Wikipeople and motorcycle buffs to the rescue to give references, please! Wendyb001 13:03, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Depending on how you stretch the definition of "papier mache", it's been done. Papier mache is, essentially, a laminated composite structure made of what home-builders like to call "organic carbon fiber" (i.e. wood products) and some suitable matrix, such as glue or epoxy. If you use a high strength glue, vacuum bag the parts to ensure good fiber saturation and no glue excess, a laminated paper part is quite strong, while paper honeycomb is still the lightest core material available (the Voyager around-the-world plane used paper honeycomb extensively). The coarsest example of a paper bike is the Stanford engineering project, one of which can be seen here: http://me.stanford.edu/research/design.html. A better example is a guy who made a rice paper composite bike frame in his garage; the result, while not as stiff as a carbon fiber frame, did work. Still looking for that link, it's been a few years since I saw the website. Here's some other links of interest:
Note that the phenolic/paper tubes are stronger and stiffer than fiberglass mat/polyester tubes (the other fiberglass tubes are oriented strand construction). Since paper is, in essence, a random oriented cellulose mat, you could argue that paper composites are stronger than fiberglass composites. scot 14:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to track down helpful Fluzwup!!! Dear Fluzwup, you helped me a ,onth ago when I was almost taken in by the idea of a paper mache motorbike, and I'd love to credit you in the acknowledgements page of my book on paper. But cyberspace gremlins ate half of June's emails (think my inbox became overstuffed and imploded) so I've lost our exchange and your email address. Might you be Scott Alexander??? Forgive my bad memory - can anyone help me contact FLuzwup?? I don't think my publisher will let me credit juist fluzwup....wendyb wendyblaxland@optusnet.com.au

Yep, that's me--I'll e-mail you again so you have my contact info... scot 15:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just in case anyone else is interested, here's a pair of links to a full sized, single seat "paper airplane" and the paper/fiberglass composite construction method used to build it. Not quite papier mache, but another type of paper composite material. scot 16:29, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External links discussion

I am adding a link to a site I believe is a good resource. Even though it has Adsense on it, it features a step-by-step tutorial with picutres on how to make papier-mache sculptures and I don't see how this is against Wikipedia rules. It is precisely on topic of this page and presents a valuable resouce to people interested in papier mache. The site is http://www.artcraftsite.com/paper/papier-mache.shtml. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.104.8 (talk) 20:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the link again - the page may have been useful but it looks like the artcraftsite.com domain has expired so the page is unavailable. --Snigbrook (talk) 20:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that you've finally discussed this link. You've added it to multiple articles at multiple times, restoring it when it's been removed by others. (See WP:SPAM, WP:EL, and WP:NOT#LINK). I think the link that further discussion is necessary, once the domain is back. --Ronz (talk) 01:31, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


OK, so the domain was down for about 48 hours and is back up again. Even if I have (unknowingly) broken link-adding rules, how does this reflect on the question whether an article is a valuble resource that should be linked or not ?! I think a link should be judged by its content and not by the way it was added. In any case, what's up with it now ? Can I add it back ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.104.8 (talk) 19:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's very heavy with advertising, so I'd be inclined to keep it out without even looking at the contents of Papier-mâché.
Looking over this article, I think we should hold off on adding any external links other than ones we can use as sources. The artcraftsite link doesn't meet WP:RS, so it shouldn't be used as a source. --Ronz (talk) 20:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the advertising, I can remove the advertising that is inside the text. Regarding the website not being a reliable source, I am not using it as a source. I am not citing it as a support for a claim. It is an external link. Link that points to an external website. On WP:EL it says, under the "What should be linked": "Sites which fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources." My site falls exactly into this category. It features a papier mache making tutorial. Relevant to the topic of the article. How do you measure reliability on this topic ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.104.8 (talk) 21:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Henry Clay

A form of papier-mâché had existed in China for hundreds of years until a much stronger version (including glue) was patented by Henry Clay of Birmingham England in 1702. It was a common technique for making dolls in the 19th century, before plastics became available.

The Henry Clay linked was born 75 years after papier-mâché was patented. Since this is clearly the wrong person, I'm wondering if the right Henry Clay has a page on Wikipedia - I checked, but couldn't find him. I've removed the link, but if someone else can find (or feels like making) the right page, could you please create the right link? --Muna (talk) 12:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have two sources that say 1772, so I changed the date. I'll see if it's the right guy and link him if so. scot (talk) 15:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moved for discussion: Papier-mâché Carnival floats in Italy

Papier-mâché Carnival floats are paraded in occasion of the Carnival in Italy. A basic structure of wood, metal and metal wire is covered in papier-mâché. Once dried, details are added. The papier-mâché is then sanded and painted. Carnival floats as those built in Viareggio (Tuscany, Italy) can be very large and comprise a number of characters, props and scenic elements all organized around a chosen theme. They can also accommodate several dozens people, including the operators of the mechanisms. The floats can in fact have movable parts, like the facial features of a character or its limbs. It is not unusual for local professional architects, engineers, painters, sculptors and ceramists to take part in the design and construction of the floats. The most experienced designers and builders are usually regarded by the local community as artists and it is not uncommon for them to enjoy a local celebrity. Once the Carnival is over, due to the impossibility to store or preserve them, the floats are usually torn apart and sold as props to circuses, theatres, movie makers. One example is the use of such props in the filming of Federico Fellini's "I Vitelloni" (1953). Among the other Italian cities that build papier-mâché floats for their annual Carnival parade are Ivrea, Cento and Acireale and Massafra.

  • Barghetti, Adriano (2007). 1994-2003: 130 anni di storia del Carnevale di Viareggio, Carnevale d’Italia e d’Europa. Pezzini Editore. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  • http://www.viareggio.ilcarnevale.com/viareggiocarnival.cfm
  • http://www.carnevaleacireale.com/en/papermache.html
  • http://viareggiocarnival.co.uk/theart.html
  • http://www.viareggio.ilcarnevale.com/viareggiocarnival.cfm
I've moved this here for discussion. The viareggiocarnival.co.uk link was previously removed as inappropriate. None of the links meet WP:V and WP:RS. What can be verified from the book? --Ronz (talk) 16:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Hi Ronz!

Thanks a lot for the help. It's very difficult for a new guy in Wiki, like walking on a minefield. Anyway, I now do understand your point of view. I'll better the article and put more accurate references (pages included) pointing to the books I have access to. I suppose it would be worth it. I'll submit the changes to you first if you don't mind. Thanks for replying so soon! Regards Gaius3.Gaius3 (talk) 17:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this article is a bit of a minefield at the moment. Sorry about that. Fluzwup is doing a good job reworking the material and properly sourcing it. --Ronz (talk) 17:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Retained material

Material retained from lead for future use follows:


Carton-pierre (French for 'stone cardboard') is papier-mâché that has been decorated to resemble wood, stone, or metal, and is used as decoration.[1]

Mavigogun (talk) 13:20, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "carton-pierre". Dictionary.com.

Full re-write

The article is in need of a full re-write; as written, it contains large guide-oriented sections and otherwise lacks encyclopedic character. I will undertake rectifying these issues over the next few days; developing or expanding the content will not be addressed by me at this time.Mavigogun (talk) 13:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 18:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

Papier-mâché → Paper-mache – WP:USEENGLISH. Yes, the French spelling is fairly common in English, but the English spelling is common too, and it's, you know, English. --Born2cycle (talk) 19:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Dispite papier-mache clearly being French, there are 32,000 books in English using paper mache, or less frequently paper-mache, and 920,000 using papier in combination with either mache or mâché, and even mãachâe. Most dictionaries call it papier-mâché, some have paper mache, with the definition being "papier-mâché". Apteva (talk) 23:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Never seen "paper-mache" in the UK. Sometimes the diacritics are omitted on "mâché", but it's always spelled "papier" and pronounced "papeeay-machay". This suggests it's a WP:ENGVAR issue. -- Necrothesp (talk) 21:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I've never seen "paper-mache" in Canada , though I have seen it spelt as papier-maché and papier-mache, and without the hyphen. -- 70.24.247.127 (talk) 01:55, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Je ne peux pas résister, c'est qu'au Québec? Apteva (talk) 03:22, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per observations above (and I also don't recall ever seeing/hearing "paper-mache" before). CsDix (talk) 04:06, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • We were told it was called paper mache but no one said how it was spelled. Apteva (talk) 03:24, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Language is a dynamic utility that doesn't conform to rigidly delineated categories. Why transliterate instead of translate? There is no answer- because fashion and habitat don't consider reason. "English" is a mongrel language- with as much as 60% of French origin, transliterated by custom and time- not by convention. The suggestion to rename this page is misguided- by intent or apprehension.Mavigogun (talk) 07:07, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose despite nomination "English spelling is common too, and it's, you know, English" this evidently isn't English, it's Can'tSpellLish. "Papier-mache is" gets 10,100 GB results, "paper mache is" gets 319. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:14, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.kashmirvalley.com/History_of_Paper_Mache.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. John of Reading (talk) 11:49, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Papier Mache

Papier mache is among the most renowned crafts of kashmir. The craft represents a rich tradition of craftsmanship that dates back to the reign of Zainul Abideen Budshah (1420-1470 A.D) originnaly the art of papier machie confined to kari qalamdani, the making of pen cases. With the passage of time however, the craft developed and recorded a great perfection. Papier Mache as of today covers the whole range of poignant products that keeps the customers alluring throughout the world. Flower vases, Office screen, Trays, Book racks, powder boxes, coaster sets, bowls, bells, Easter eggs, trays are the few of the decorative and used items produced in papier mache. The art products are embellished after the delicate process of preperation of mould use pulp and application of colors and designing. The designs that very often recur in making of papier mache objects include Gul-andar-gul (Flower within Flower) Hazaara, (The thousand flowers, Gul vilayat (The dear flower), kashmiri Boun (The chinar tree/Maple Leaf tree) etc. 

Proficient artisans even render the mughal miniature painting in papier mache, creating an object of rather an unsurpassed value. Gold powder is also added to some of the objects to make them more alluring.

There are lots of god and quality artisans of papier machie who are having a valid Artisan Card granted by the J&K handicraft department. Among them some of the Artisans are: M. shafi Baba & Sons Bashir Ahmad Joo Mohiddin Baba Qasim Ali Hafizullah Baba Hussin Baba — Preceding unsigned comment added by Safeerai hussain (talk • contribs) 08:52, 6 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Editing banner

Having condensed the sub-sections of the article, I removed the editing banner. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 02:49, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Une autre manière de le préparer est de réaliser une pâte modelable à base de papier. Il faut pour cela, après avoir détrempé les menus morceaux de papier longtemps au préalable, faire bouillir le papier dans un grand volume d'eau, puis mixer le liquide et mélanger la pâte obtenue après un léger égouttage, avec de la colle vinylique, type colle à bois, de la colle à papiers peints, de l'huile de lin pour la souplesse de la pâte, et éventuellement un peu de plâtre de paris pour absorber le trop plein d'humidité. La pâte ainsi obtenue s'utilise alors comme de la terre de modelage. Brand 44(T) (talk) 17:55, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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