Talk:Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov/GA1

GA Review

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Initial comment

This is a brilliant and extensive piece of work, beautifully illustrated and with great multimedia. I will come back over the coming week, but my one initial reaction is this:

• The article references R-S's autobiography very extensively, including numerous points that are presented as fact, without additional references to verify. I think there should be limits to how far one should rely on a person's own account of their life and work in an encyclopaedic entry. Consider paring down this reliance and increasing the reliance on secondary sources and analysis. When I come back i will look at this issue more carefully - at this stage, it is a general reaction.

Notwithstanding this point, what a great article! Cheers. hamiltonstone (talk) 11:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

More points

What a piece of scholarship. More thoughts:

• The lead section is too long. I think the following sentences and phrases can be deleted from it, as matters to be taken up only in the main body of the text:

• "Likewise, while Capriccio espagnol could be considered a continuation of Mikhail Glinka's Spanish Fantasies pittoresques, the vibrancy of Rimsky-Korsakov's orchestration far outshines Glinka's effort.[3] It also served as a model for Maurice Ravel's Rapsodie espagnole."
• "...orchestration of passages from Cui's William Ratcliff for the first production in 1869..."
• "While Rimsky-Korsakov's arrangement of Night on Bald Mountain is still the version generally performed today, some of Rimsky-Korsakov's other revisions, such as that of Boris Godunov, have been replaced by Mussorgsky's original versions.[4]"
• "This was a position for which he initially felt ill-prepared due to his own lack of training in the technical aspects of composition. Nevertheless, he launched into an intense period of self-education, staying one step ahead of his students while eventually becoming an academic master.[6][7][8][9]"

• The lead suggests his orchestration may have been influenced by his synesthesia, however this point is not taken up in the main text, and the synesthesia itself is just tacked on at the end of the article. I think it should be raised earlier in the article when talking about his aptitude and love of orchestration.
• Early years section: the phrase "...recapture the delights of opera" just sits a little oddly in an encyclopaedic entry. I suggest that "While at school, Rimsky-Korsakov took piano lessons from a man named Ulikh,[13] but his interest in the piano was only a means to recapture the delights of opera.[14] Ulikh saw, however, that..." become "While at school, Rimsky-Korsakov took piano lessons from a man named Ulikh.[13] Ulikh saw that..."
• While I think the article as a whole should be shorter, there is the question of what material should be sacrificed. Areas in which there is too much detail that adds too little include:

• 'Professor' - this does not need R-Ss reflections on that time. Roughly speaking, I think the following can be deleted: "Moreover, he had come to a creative dead end upon completing The Maid of Pskov and realized that developing a solid musical technique was the only way he could continue composing.[42] In his first years of teaching, Rimsky-Korsakov bluffed his way through classes,[43] aided, he wrote, "by the fact that at first none of my pupils could imagine that I knew nothing; and by the time they had learned enough to begin to see through me, I had learned something myself!"[43] He was helped in this by his experience in the practical aspects of composition—his personal taste, sense of form and understanding of orchestral coloring.[43]"
• 'Inspector of bands' - I think perhaps the following can be deleted: "He spent two years making notes, even studying texts by Tyndall and Helmholtz on the laws of acoustics.[55] While his realization of both the enormous scale of the task and the quickness with which his text could become outdated led him to give up work on it, he considered the knowledge amassed worthwhile. He applied it to his compositions and strove to give his conservatory students "a clear conception, if not a full knowledge, of instruments of the orchestra."[56]"

• The section 'books' really belongs at the end of the text of the article rather than within the 'legacy' section.

Gotta go. More thoughts in coming days. Cheers. hamiltonstone (talk) 11:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

More thoughts

• Can someone confirm that the point "Rimsky-Korsakov's penchant for orchestration was influenced by his synesthesia" is actually made in one of the references?
• I am continuing to look for areas in which the article might be trimmed a little. In the ultimate section (Folklore, pantheism, dvoyeveriye), I suggest considering deleting the following:

"Rimsky-Korsakov also discovered pagan exuberance in Russian Orthdoxy, which served as the basis for his Russian Easter Festival Overture.[107] Christian and pagan practices are often bound up inseparably in Russian folklore.[107] This syncrecity is called dvoyeveriye—literally "double faith."[107] When Russia was converted to Christianity, the Slavic rites did not disappear.[107] Instead, they were incorporated into the new Christian rituals.[107] Rimsky-Korsakov composed two operas on the dvoyeveriye theme: Christmas Eve emphasized the pagan aspect of dvoyeveriye, while The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevroniya focused on the Christian aspect.[108] Even with this emphasis in Kitezh, Rimsky-Korsakov combined elements of Russian history (the 13th-century invasion by the Mongols) and a strong dose of pantheism to lend the work a strongly nationalistic twist.[109]

Dvoyeveriye might be an apt term for Rimsky-Korsakov himself, whose..."

and replace with "Rimsky-Korsakov..." - and remove "dvoyeveriye" from the section title. Would welcome a second opinion on this edit.

• Throughout the article, i suggest some editing that reduces the occurrence of sentences that provide a depth of background that goes beyond R-K's own career, and reduces the commentary on R-S's thoughts and activities that are not tied to specific matters - for example "Even in his leaner times, creatively speaking, he kept busy". This editing will be a matter of judgement - I'm not suggesting they all be removed, just that a general tightening of the text to make it more concise would be helpful. Cheers. hamiltonstone (talk) 01:05, 23 February 2009 (UTC)