Talk:Motto of the European Union

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translation

the article is available on other wikipedia versions. Cliché Online (talk) 19:06, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Ucucha 18:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


In varietate concordia → United in diversity — Per WP:Naming conventions (Use English). Naming conventions require use of the English version of the motto. Boson (talk) 00:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion

Any additional comments:

In spite of unsourced claims to the contrary, only versions of the EU motto in the official languages of the EU (which do not include Latin) have any official status. Moving may require deletion of an existing redirect under the target name.--Boson (talk) 00:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some references for the status of the English version of the motto:

  • Barnard, Catherine (2007). The Substantive Law of the EU: The four freedoms (2 ed.). Oxford University Press. p. 447. ISBN 9780199290352. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • "EUROPA > The EU at a glance > The symbols of the EU > United in diversity". Europa (web portal). European Commission. Retrieved 2010-01-20. 'United in diversity' is the motto of the European Union. The motto means that, via the EU, Europeans are united in working together for peace and prosperity, and that the many different cultures, traditions and languages in Europe are a positive asset for the continent.
  • "European Parliament: The Legislative Observatory". Europa (web portal). European Commission. Retrieved 2010-01-20. the motto 'United in diversity' shall be reproduced on Parliament's official documents;

--Boson (talk) 00:15, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

of course you can only read english language and therefore use this language as THE source, not only this goes against the NPOV and World View but you won't find anything but the english language motto and translation. don't you have non-english sources about the EU motto?
  • well italian author Carlo Curti Gialdino's "The symbols of the European Union" writes the motto in French and translates it in his language which is itself translated in english by the CVCE for the european navigator (official eu archives center in luxembourg) The winning motto was "Unité dans la diversité", or ‘Unity in diversity’, devised by youngsters from Luxembourg, and Jacques Delors prefaced this by ‘Europe:’[1]
  • by the way the European commission atually used two english mottoes "Unity in Diversity" and "United in Diversity" which indicates either this is an english translation from the latin master motto, either they abandonned the first because it was already taken by other countries. i'm currently investigating about this.
  • also i've just written the contest (translation from the french ouest france dossier) imposed the schoolchildren to write the mooto in their language plus an english version for easier translation.
  • the latin motto is used by this website called eurominority but it doesn't seems to be legitimate after all. if google it you'll notice the latin motto is widely used instead of the french (and english) version.
  • there's a difference between the motto submitted by the kids in 2000 and the one adopted by Nicole Fontaine of the EU parliament. Cliché Online (talk) 01:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • on a sidenote i've just noticed the french and dutch wikipedia articles use the latin motto as title (those 2 are those who rejected the EU constitution in 2005...) Cliché Online (talk) 01:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • i'm searching for an official EU document bearing the motto (like the 2004 constitution), let me know if you find one. found this, official doc in english with latin motto and all but strangely this is an academic report from kentucky... Cliché Online (talk) 01:25, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in varietate concordia is the latin motto chosen by the european citizens in 2000. its english translation is "unity in diversity" blablabla... in Eurodiversity: a business guide to managing difference, by George F. Simons,Arjen Bos. the latin motto is not used on english blogs but instead is used on published books like this, or this one among others. Cliché Online (talk) 01:33, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • well the 2004 treaty that is supposed to include the motto is available on the european navigator in english and french (both universal languages). there are two versions protocol and final treaties. can't find the section about the symbols of europe, let me know if you find out. Cliché Online (talk) 02:11, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming is fine. However, none of your sources is qualified to discuss the EU motto. E.g. The Kentucky report is obviously written by Americans, who are obsessed with Latinising their own mottos, so may have unconsciously assumed this would be the case for the EU as well. So far US citizens have no controlling vote about the EU so unless this publication refers to source documents in translating, or provides empirical evidence this is no more than the idea of an American about (s)he think EU works. Arnoutf (talk) 18:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

that's your POV about (against) US, mine is different Latin is a dead language that belongs to nobody (and then to everyone in the west as a legacy of the founding roman civilization). you didn't checked the other sources i gave right there, just make a google book search about this motto and you'll find it associated with the EU motto. i'm still searching for evidence of the motto in the treaty of 2004 as said here and there. Cliché Online (talk) 18:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
btw as they said who searches finds: "A face in keeping with the Union motto, ‘In varietate concordia’, an expression of unity and at the same time diversity." spoken by Mirek Topolánek President-in-Office of the European Council on Wednesday, 14 January 2009 at Strasbourg. (video version here at 9:11:56) Cliché Online (talk) 21:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
ok, found the so-called Article I-8. Cliché Online (talk) 21:54, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what that source is for. It is from the proposed constitution that never came into force, and the motto itself in the 23 official languages is well documented. The current status as EU motto is probably best documented by
which has the official motto in all 23 languages.--Boson (talk) 22:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm OK with the new name "Motto of the European Union". I think you're supposed to wait a week after a move request before moving, but I think something confused the bot anyway and the request never got properly listed. Is everyone OK with simply removing the Move Request box and the headings, rather than officially closing? --Boson (talk) 23:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

References

  1. ^ [1]

public domain

are the EU official posters and stuff public domain material (like the US federal governmental things) or are they copyrighted works? thanks. Cliché Online (talk) 19:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I believe most EU stuff is copyright. For instance the Europa portal has the following copyright notice:

Copyright notice

© European Union, 1995-2010:
Reproduction is authorised, provided the source is acknowledged, save where otherwise stated.
Where prior permission must be obtained for the reproduction or use of textual and multimedia information (sound, images, software, etc.), such permission shall cancel the above-mentioned general permission and shall clearly indicate any restrictions on use.
This is not public domain and, as I understand it "reproduction is authorised . . ." is not compatible with GFDL/CC because it does not permit modification.
--Boson (talk) 20:02, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
thanks, do you think we can use a europe day 2005 poster in the article? (resized version VGA format of the hd pdf for example) Cliché Online (talk) 21:05, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It would have to be under a fair-use rationale, I think, which is a bit dubious, in my opinion. --Boson (talk) 22:15, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
i see, but we already have fair use docs in the article. thanks anyway. Cliché Online (talk) 22:18, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

United in Diversity & Unity in Diversity

former motto Unity in Diversity from may 2000 is still used by EU officials... "Madam President, the EU’s motto is ‘Unity in diversity’. It is a principle that has served us well." Charles Tannock (Thursday, 12 March 2009 - Strasbourg) Cliché Online (talk) 22:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Number of official languages in EU

There are 24 official languages in the EU, not 23 as it is said on the article. GosGroc (talk) 09:34, 25 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2020

The translation for the motto in Bulgarian should be "Единство в мнообразието" as the current one is not right(not properly conjugated). 2A02:A444:EC85:1:8ED7:156A:F322:AF98 (talk) 19:02, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Mdaniels5757 (talk) 20:44, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Motto_of_the_European_Union"