Talk:Manannán mac Lir

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 August 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): A.benson99. Peer reviewers: GK2000GK.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2005 posts

There is a problem here. in the sentence that says he is not related to Lir from children of lir clicking on the link "lir" takes you to the page about the sea god lir who WAS his father. Do we need disambiguation? Stblndr 17:59, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Lord, no. That sentence, if it means anything, means that Manannán doesn't play a part in Oidheadh Chlainne Lir. Which means that he may be the same person, or not. I certainly don't see that as reason for siphoning off into a disambiguation page and two different articles since, to all intents and purposes, nothing is known about the Lir who is Manannán's father. (If he is indeed different from the character in Oidheadh Chloinne Lir...) Quartier Latin1968

18:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lady Gregory

Lady Gregory doesn't identify the source of her tales, and it would be nice to establish them (or alternatively treat Lady Gregory as a topic apart from the Old Irish corpus). It isn't clear if "Manannan at Play" has any actual basis in the Old Irish literature; especially the identification of Manannan with the bodach figure appears to be Middle Irish, if not modern. Or perhaps there is an Old Irish source for this, but the article doesn't give it, and I couldn't find it. --dab (𒁳) 10:00, 7 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

County Londonderry

See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Ireland-related_articles#Derry/Londonderry - "Use Derry for the city and County Londonderry for the county in articles." I will revert accordingly.Alekksandr (talk) 21:56, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2021 Addition plans

So I am thinking about adding a more specific section to the article about Manannan's influence in the "Voyage of Bran" considering the fact that it's one of the first times we see him documented in historical literature, as well as going into a little more depth about just what he did in the different literature we see him in. I will be using both "The Waves of Manannan" by Charles W. MacQuarrie and "The Place of Manannan Mac Lir in Irish Mythology" by David B. Spaa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.benson99 (talk • contribs) 23:56, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The owner of the crane-bag

crane-bagの持ち主はConaire MórではなくConaire Cóemではないでしょうか。詩には”Ro codail Conaire cáom”と書かれています。 [Duanaire Finn Poem VIII "The Crane-bag", ed. MacNeill (1908) p. 22,]

The owner of the crane-bag is probably Conaire Cóem, not Conaire Mór. The poem says "Ro codail Conaire cáom". [Duanaire Finn Poem VIII "The Crane-bag", ed. MacNeill (1908), p. 22, in.] 空瓶 (talk) 07:39, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unused, broken, and bad sources

The following was tucked into the source list at the end of the article but not actually cited anywhere in the text (and was actually commented out). In the course of doing the start of some general cleanup, I have removed this, unless/until it gets cited for something:

Busse, Peter E.; Koch, John T. (2006). "Manannán mac Lir". In Koch, John T. (ed.). Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopedia. Santa Barbara, Denver, and Oxford: ABC-CLIO. pp. 1244–5.

There is also a broken citation, missing full author name and title of work, so unverifiable:

Macalister, Vol. 4 (1941), p. 104

There are also several citations to a multi-volume work which do not specify which volume they are citing. I have templated these all for cleanup.

Next, this source probably needs to be replaced, as it is put out by Edwin Mellen Press, largely identified as a self-publishing "vanity press" for academics, and on our blacklist:

MacQuarrie, Charles W. (2004). The Biography of the Irish God of the Sea from 'The Voyage of Bran' (700 A.D.) to 'Finnegan's Wake' (1939): The Waves of Manannán. "Studies in Irish Literature" ser. Vol. 13. Lampeter, Wales: Edwin Mellen Press. ISBN 9780773463820.

Finally, I have removed the Caitlin & John Matthews source and the junk sentence that cited it, since these writers are notorious purveyors of wiccan/neopagan/neodruid, "Celtic twilight", revisionist nonsense, and just make up "spiritual" stuff as they go along, intermingling it with some actual scholarship to such an extent that no one but an expert can pick them apart. The sentence in question was silly hypothesizing for an "explanation" of something mythological, which by its nature is essentially immune to explanation, and there is no basis for the supposition in the first place (it's just the writers' personal opinion, not based on documentary source material).

However, there is still a remaining citation to Caitlin Matthews:

Matthews, Caitlín (1995). "Crane bag". British and Irish Mythology: An Encyclopedia of Myth and Legend. Diamond Books. p. 195. ISBN 9780261666511. Crane Bag ... formed from the skin of Aoife, Manannan's son's mistress"

Note that the quoted material has nothing at all to do what it was cited for, which was Ilbhreac here may have been Ilbhreac son of Manannán. Everything else about the crane-bag legend is already cited to another source which we have used repeatedly for other material; namely:
MacNeill, Eoin (1908). Duanaire Finn: The Book of the Lays of Fionn. pt. 1. ITS 7. David Nutt, for Irish Texts Society.).
So there appears to be no rationale to cite Matthews (either of them) here, given that MacNeill's material on this story already covers all its details. (But see thread immediately above for a dispute about the purported possessor of the artifact.)
— SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 11:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]