Talk:Malvern, Worcestershire/Archive 4

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4

Agricultural history

Malvern is mentioned as follows in: R. C. Gaut, A history of Worcestershire agriculture and rural evolution, Littlebury & Company Ltd. The Worcester Press, Worcester, 1939. Thought I would put it in while I have the book at hand, in case of interest to anyone else, but I have no margin to write it into article and I find the Determinants fiasco very worrisome.

Extended content

(indexed under Malvern)

p.5 rainfall and sunshine 1926-1935

p.9 Roman roads: "From Droitwich, ... (to) Worcester, where the ford was crossed, pursuing its course over the Wych at Malvern. A lesser track descended form the Malvern camps on Midsummer Hill and the Herefordshire Beacon to the Severn ford at the Rhydd and hence to Worcester."

p.59- early 16th century encroachments: "An old manuscript book in which the following had been copied related to such encroachments on Powick Hams in 1508: " Thos. Kedgworth, of new elected and chosen Prior of Much Malvern, by a feigned and unrightful title claimeth our said Common to be his domain ... "

p.61 in 15th and 16th centuries, townships obtained grants from monarchs to hold markets and fairs: "Malvern Great: The market-cross now stands on a wall below Belle Vue Terrace, if and when a market was held here are not known."

p.118 17th century : To reduce damage to roads (nationally) statute of George I in 1719 fixed number of horses for carts and carriages; in 1752 special regulations included allowing 7 horses up Malvern Hill.

p.119 give schedule of stage coach and mail between Worcester and London; in 1758 regular post started between Worcester and Great Malvern on Monday Thursday and Saturday.

p.119 re letting of farms: an ad in a Worcester newspaper: 40 acres half arable half pasture within 100 yards of Malvern Chace, rent 24 pounds.

p.158 "Malvern Wells in 1763 was already a fashionable resort.

p.258 re dispute about establishment of corn exchange in Worcester, Henry Lakin of Malvern was prominent in "farmer's party"

p.261 re rise in agricultural education: "At Malvern in 1849 a course of agricultural lectures was advertised to be given by 'Dr. Robinson, one of the most eminent Professors of the theory and practice of agricultural science'".

p.262 "At Malvern, boys and girls of 10 to 12 years left school almost entirely to drive donkeys for visitors"

p.272 re hop growing, table entry for Malvern: 1825 80 1/2 acres, average 1829-1835 acres 74 3/8, pounds of hops charged 13,317, duty 110 pounds 19 and sixpence, 1844 acres 49 3/4.

p.293 re hops "Piece work rates for picking were being advocated. One growe in 1840 put average cost when paid at 1 s. per day plus drink at 11s 8 1/4d per cwt. The cost of picking by the bushel amounted to 5s 6d or 6s including the allowance for drink, the prices varying from 1d. to 2d. per bushel according to crop.A good picker could earn 1s 6d per day ..." (photos of hop pickers from Black Country mentioned in article already, would be nice if this info could go into an article about Hoppers -- there is an article about Hoppers Huts that was wildly misleading -- managed to correct it a while back -- but suggestion it be changed to Hoppers was beaten down with suggestion new article be started)

p.296 re agricultural shows: "Malvern Horticultural and Floral Society. Founded in July 1850. Prizes for vegetables - amateurs and cottager's sections, and cottage gardens.

p.310 new railway lines: 1864 Malvern to Tewkesbury via Upton on Severn

p.322 (Worcestershire generally) "With growth of business and population local authorities had to " provide water supplies. From 1851 ... to Great Malvern ... (n.b. phones in Worcester in 1880)

p.329 re Herefordshire Agricultural Society "The 1871 event at Malvern ended with disaster; on the last day a high wind blew down the flower tent, then the coverings of the cattle shed and sheep pens, the poultry tent, and rent the refreshment tent."

p.354 "'Malvern Poultry show' held in the Promenade Gardens, in 3 tents on 21 and 22 Septemebr 1853, was the first county show (for poultry) but it only survived 2 years."

p.355 Edward Archer of Malvern, was prolific exhibitor of poultry at other shows, also George McCann of Malvern and C.H. Wakefield of Malvern Wells exhibited.

p.360 re introduction of agricultural use of steam power"In 1864 ... Henry Allsopp, Hindlip Hall, purchased an engine and a set of Howard's 3-tine double-acting cultivators and placed them on view at the Beauchamp Hotel, Malvern. 'After inspecting the engine ... (he threw) a bumper of champagne over it ..."

p.367 re prices for farms being sold off by aristocracy "1910 North End Farm Malvern 138 acres 3,900 pounds"

p.370 In 1904 Malvern installed electricity works in Pickersleigh Road (presumably first)

p.371 In 1906 Malvern installed bore holes at Bromsberrow to augment water supply.

(more indexed under Malvern per se that I will not put in now for logistical reasons items indexed under Malvern Hills etc follow)

p.2 Longdon Brook and is numerous tributaries rise in the Malvern Hills, discharging into the Severn near Pull Court.

p.3 The oldest rocks in Worcestershire ... pre Cambrian ... occur on Malvern Hills ... quarried debris widely scattered over farms of contiguous parishes giving rise to "rotchy" soils

p.176 re importance of sheep in Worcestershire "Flocks on the Malvern Hills in 1776 numbered 300 to 400, 'kept without turnips by the support of hay in winter. Commonage for sheep for the summer could be hired at 1s 6d per head"

p.396 re national and county animal health regulations: in 1905 "in September, the veterinary inspectors reported no trace of scab among the 6,127 sheep examined on the common lands, including the Malvern Hills"

p.373 following establishment of County Councils, in 1891 Worcestershire CC inaugurated technical instruction classes in (a) General agriculture, chemistry of crops, manures, feeding stuffs and (b) Veterinary science: shoeing feeding and management of animals" with Malvern Link as one of the teaching sites.

p.397 poultry (again) great improvement in breeds on farms in Malvern, Malvern Link, Wyche

p.435 tomatoes "In 1912 appeared the range of glasshouses in a field at Pickersleigh, Malvern Link, extended in 1914; in that year the proprietors showed a photographic film in the local cinema of the premises where they produced the Malvoma brand of tomatoes"

p.266 re enclosures act of 1847 award 1850 "With respect to Welland this was by far the most interesting of the Worcestershire enclosures because it settled the long-disputed question of the boundary between parishes of Welland and Little Malvern ... "

p.344 re pedigree shorthorns Richard Guilding of Malvern Wells major breeder

p.350 re outbreak of "Russian plague" or rinderpest, "Cattle diseases prevention act", Benjamin Hall of Malvern Wells was appointed as one of the people authorized to grant licenses for movement of animals within the county.

p.407 whole paragraph about rose growing by R. Foley Hobbs -- hundreds of awards, indexed under Malvern Wells, but has Worcester address on p.407, but Mrs. Foley Hobbs already in article for her rose.

Michael P. Barnett (talk) 03:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Time is inelastic. If (when) I can get back to this, should it go under History or Agriculture? Michael P. Barnett (talk) 02:38, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I haven't had time to go through the whole list, but the Malvoma tomatoes strikes a twinge of nostaligia. It was an important enterprise in Malvern and I grew up within a few hundred metres of the vast extent of greenhouses known as 'Tomatoland', now a modern housing estate. For many years, the small convenience store they operated was the only shopping facility for the very large nearby ministry housing estate built for the employees of RRE in 1953. As it can be referenced, it's probably worth a mention. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Recent edits ( June 211)

I have removed some information about what might happen to railway connections in 2012. This was unsourced speculation. The encyclopedia must deal with reportable historical facts. I have also removed some unnecessary duplication from he lead, made some minor prose tweaks, and removed a spam link. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:53, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Updated hospital information.
Following links are no longer valid:

  • 'Malvern Wells , The Times, Issue 2133, Tuesday, Sep. 20, 1791, p.2, col C. (info) [ggimg.com] (dead)
  • What is a town, parish or community council? (info) [nalc.gov.uk] accessdate=26 December 2009 publisher=National Association of Local Councils (soft 404 - page no longer available)
  • Malvern U3A (info) [malvernu3a.org.uk] accessdate=13 February 2011 publisher=Malvern U3A) (dead)

--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:48, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Requesting peer review before nominating for FA

I've listed this article at peer review to obtain some independent assessment before eventually nominating it for FA. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:41, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Peer review now taking place at Wikipedia:Peer review/Malvern, Worcestershire/archive1. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:44, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Climate

Can all this be verified for sources? The wording seems too good to be true, and we must avoid any copyvio. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:43, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

If the climate section was added by Gyro then there can be no doubt as the item's fidelity to Wikipedia policies. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:34, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

TRE/RRE

If there are no objections, I will reduce this. It lends undue weight as to what is actually done there. It is indeed the most important feature of Malvern's growth over more than half a century, but the details of what they actually do there are best kept in its own Wikipedia article which is linked. I am nevertheless surprised to see that two immort and developments that came out of the place, the cavity magnetron and the LED are not worthy of a mention. I thought I had put them in there at some stage but it seems to have got lost. The TRE/RRE articles have been exceptionally well developed by Michael recently. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:10, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I've given it a month and no objections have been raised so I've pruned this section. See the collapsed info below for what has been removed and could be used to expand the dedicated article(s) about TRE, RRE, RSRE, QinetiQ, etc.

removed

TRE and RRDE were vital to defence and then victory in World War II. Winston Churchill's personal "knowledge of radar dated from 25 July 1935 --- within twenty-four hours of ... experiments proving ... aircraft could be pinpointed by using radio waves."[1] Later, "Every day [Sir Robert Renwick] would phone [staff at TRE], asking 'any news, any problems' [and these would be] dealt with by Renwick's immediate access to Churchill".

Defence projects involved radio navigation. Further projects developed ways to disrupt the use of such resources by hostile forces, and CRT developments were vital to radar during the war.[2] So was work on the cavity magnetron[3] The AI trainer saved an estimated 50 million pounds in aviation fuel.[4] Heat detecting semiconductor devices were vital to guided missiles soon after the war.[5]

TRE, RRDE, and RRE, under their original and later names have made many major contributions to science and technology at large.[5] Besides the observation and theoretical analysis of radio phenomena, the RRE Physics Department, with a staff of 150 scientists, played a major pioneering role in solid state physics in England, leading to extensive results that enriched the understanding of fundamental scientific principles and practical applications in electronics for industry and the home. The CRT work led to the development of the Williams tube at Manchester University that gave major impetus to the British computer industry.[5]

Hidden note: Three members of TRE won Nobel prizes, for their later work. Five became university Vice-Chancellors. One became Astronomer Royal. Many more went on to professorships in Great Britain and the United States. One former member was made a life peer and served for a year in the cabinet. At least eight were knighted, in later years, and at least ten became Fellows of the Royal Society. Over 60 books were written by members of TRE and RRE at various times.

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:36, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Notable people

I'm very sorry about this but I have had to temporarily remove one person from the list (whom I actually added myself). Local residents do not feel that the connection with the town is sufficient for being listed here.

removed item

*[[Michael P. Barnett]], theoretical chemist and computer scientist. Held a Senior Government Fellowship At the [[Royal Radar Establishment]] where he worked on aspects of theoretical [[solid state physics]], and [[organic semiconductor]]s.<ref>M P Barnett (ed), ''Band Structure: Theory and Experiment. Proceedings of a Symposium Held at RRE Malvern on September 27th and 28th 1954.</ref>

I have however restored Jenny Lind to the list.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:46, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikitrip stats

here
--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:58, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Referencing

Please note the special referencing system:

  • Inline: <ref name=Foo/>
  • In the 'References' section: The body of the reference. Use cite temples, and list refs in alphabetical order.

Please be sure to do this if adding new refs because there are a lot of them and it takes hours to sort them out later - each edit has to be done separately to record in the es exactly what was done to be able to keep track of it, each change requires 2 edits, and on my slow connection, each save/reload can take up to 5 minutes. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Is Malvern, Worcestershire twinned with Malvern, Victoria, Australia?

This article suggests otherwise: www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/8808734.Town_considers_twinning_with_Czech_community/ Mhygelle (talk) 16:08, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Reliable source contradicts unsourced statement in article so I removed it. --Bob Re-born (talk) 16:18, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Don't know who added that. I concur with the removal. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:31, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Sources

Some historical assertions are sourced to Garrard, Rose (2010). A Malvern Treasury. Garrard Art Publications. ISBN 9781905795567. On the face of it, this is a self-published source and so not reliable. Cusop Dingle (talk) 07:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

What were the circumstances of publication? Rose Garrard seems a relatively well known artist, with extensive local connections, and might welll be said to be an authority on her community. Was it sponsored by the town, perhaps, or whatever? DGG ( talk ) 19:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
She might indeed be said to be an expert. But has anyone actually said this? No evidence has yet been presented that she is an "established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications". Cusop Dingle (talk) 19:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

This reference [6]

in the Malvern Gazette [7] may ultimately satisfy curiosity about Garrard.

  1. ^ Manchester, William (1988). The Last Lion, Winston Spencer Churchill. Vol. 2, Alone, 1932–1940. Boston: Little, Brown & Company. p. 573. ISBN 013654120. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help)
  2. ^ The Cathode Ray Tube, History, Technology, Applications
  3. ^ Bernard Lovell, The cavity magnetron in World War II: was the secrecy justified?, Notes and Records of the Royal Society of London, 58 (3) 283-294, 2004.
  4. ^ Moore, Kevin. "The History of Flight-Sim". www.goflightinc.com. Retrieved 2011-02-13.
  5. ^ a b c Cite error: The named reference physicsAtRRE was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ "New book outlines history of Malvern". Malvern Gazette. Newsquest Media Group. 2 April 2010. Retrieved 6 January 2012.
  7. ^ "NEWSQUEST: About us". Newsquest (A Gannett Company). Retrieved 6 January 2012.

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:23, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

The reference verifies that she exists, is a noted artist, and has self-published a book through Aspect Design, a local printing company [1]. This is far from evidence that she is an "established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications". I am coming to the conclusion, in the absence of such evidence, that she is not an expert and that her self-published works are not acceptable reliable sources. Cusop Dingle (talk) 18:24, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Self-published works are almost inherently not "reliable sources". The best reliable sources are peer-reviewed articles and books from academic publishers. This should be followed by works that have some kind of in-line citation. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:19, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
The bibliography included in A Malvern Treasury suggests that the information about the world première of Geneva in 1938 and J B Priestley are sourced from A brief history of the Malvern festival theatre (1979), a self published pamphlet by Gerald Morice.[2] Morice was the Malvern Gazette's theatre correspondent in 1976.[3] Would this make him an "established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications"? If so, would it not make sense to cite A brief history of the Malvern festival theatre rather than A Malvern Treasury? Mhygelle (talk) 19:16, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
NB A brief history of the Malvern festival theatre is also cited on the Malvern Theatres website, which is in turn cited elsewhere on this article[4]. Mhygelle (talk) 19:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Excessive details of local histories

I think that this detailed information on local historical publications and activities is completely WP:UNDUE.

Several narrative and pictorial accounts are available locally. The website of the Malvern Family History Society provides a list of them and describes where they can be obtained.[1] In particular, a pictorial history[2] contains photographs of rural roads and landscapes, quarries, shops, streets, cottages and manors, schools, churches, railways, donkeys, horse carriages and early cars, gracious interiors, the toposcope, a bonfire, a rag and bone man, osier cutters, hop pickers from a Midlands town, James Wilson and James Manby Gully (water cure doctors), soldiers and nurses of World War I, brass bands, a horse drawn fire company, the Baden-Powell's, Haile Selassie, Mrs. Foley Hobbs (namesake of a famous rose), William Crump (horticultural Victoria Medallist), Jenny Lind, Stewart Granger, Elspeth March, Wendy Hiller and Ernest Thesiger in a group at the Malvern Festival. Our Malvern[3] contains oral history and photographs of the Queen Mother, the Duke of Edinburgh, Edward Elgar with George Bernard Shaw, J. B. Priestley with James Bridie, Alastair Sim and Eileen Beldon at the Malvern Festival, Reginald Dixon (theatre organist), Arthur Troyte Griffith, Free French cadets, scientists from the Telecommunications Research Establishment, cricket, football and a ladies golf team and marathon runners.

Cusop Dingle (talk) 18:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. it was also added in good faith by another editor who appears to be no longer active. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:03, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Busses: remove table

Bus routes: Every time I go to Malvern (approx every 12 months) the bus routes have changed again. There is no direct route to Worcester Hospital anymore, some operators have changed yet again, and many of the links to the timetables are now dead.

With all due respect to the editor (no longer active on Wikipedia) who provided this information, as the details are volatile and therefore unreliable, I am suggesting removing the table entirely, leaving a prose section that describes bus services generally. If there are no objections, I will do this in the next few days. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree, per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Cusop Dingle (talk) 18:05, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Prose section expanded. Table removed at [5]. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (Online)

These references require a subscription to access the full text: [6][7] [8][9][10][11][12]

I've added dead link tags and an explanation, but I'm not sure what the policy is re. websites that require a subscription. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. Mhygelle (talk) 20:00, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

That a site requires a subscription is usually noted in the citation, but otherwise, they can used like any other source (WP:PAYWALL) and should not be tagged as dead (unless they actually are dead). In this case, virtually everyone in the UK can access the ODNB by putting in their library card number, so it's not a particularly contentious case. Regards, - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 20:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
You need {{subscription required}} not {{dead link}} in this situation. Cusop Dingle (talk) 20:13, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your prompt replies and advice. I didn't realise the ODNB could be accessed with a library card number. I'll replace the tags asap. Mhygelle (talk) 20:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Excessive details in Places of Worship

This section, again added in good faith by a now non-active user, appears to simply add clutter. and none of it is referenced. I think it's only necessary to provide a short overview mentioning some for the more notable places of worship.

Pevsner mentions the following 19th and early 20th century churches in Malvern in his book on Worcestershire:[4] All Saints, (The Wyche), 1903, by Nevinson and Newton (or possibly Troyte Griffith); St. Andrew in Poolbrook, 1885, contains a font inscribed 1724, by Blomfield; Ascension (Leigh Sinton Road) 1903, by Sir Walter Tapper, with a high metal screen by G. Bainbridge Reynolds; Christ Church (Avenue Road), 1875-6, by T.D.Barry & Sons, with unexpected cross gable; Chapel of the Convent of the Holy Name, (Ranelagh Road), 1893, by Comper, with wagon roof and stained glass; St. Joseph (Newtown Road), 1876, by T.R. Donnelly; St. Matthias (Church Road), original by Sir Giles Gilbert Scott, 1844–46, enlarged and altered by F.W. Hunt, 1880–81, painted dado and stained glass; Our Lady and St. Edmund (College Road), 1905, by P. P. Pugin; St. Peter (St. Peter's Road), 1863-6, by G. E. Street, with crazy paving of Malvern granite; Holy Trinity, (Worcester Road), 1850-1, by S. Daukes, enlarged 1872 by Haddon brothers; with plate and stained glass; Congregational Church, (Queen's Drive), 1875, by J. Tait of Leicester; Emmanuel, (Countess of Huntingdon's Connexion), 1874, by Haddon brothers.

I have been working on a stand-alone article for a couple of years here,. My research for the article is now complete and will be added to the article when I have time but there is no set deadline. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

People connected with Malvern

This is a long list and should this article ever be nominated for FA, it would almost certainly be criticised by the reviewer(s). A suggestion would be to reduce it to a prose section, per MoS, about some of the most notable, and create a separate category or list article instead if everyone on the list cannot be reasonably accommodated in one prose section. An example is Guildford#Notable residents (past and present). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:08, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Finally getting ready for FA

Malleus has kindly pointed out some issues, namely:

  • The ISBN for Waite (1968) is clearly wrong. Is that perhaps an ASIN? If so, you don't need it, as it's unique to Amazon. Done Mhygelle (talk) 09:42, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
  • You need to make the population growth table more accessible for visually impaired readers by scoping the rows and columns. Probably ought to make the year column sortable as well.
partially  Done but don't quite understand what is reauired here. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:23, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm very unconvinced by the Television section. What has Elgar cycling through the Malvern Hills got to do with either the town or the civil parish?

I've updated this section to make it clear that several scenes in Elgar were filmed on location in Malvern. I've removed the reference to the opening scene. As I recall, it features an establishing shot of Malvern and the Hills but I'm not sure how to incorporate this. Cite video perhaps? Mhygelle (talk) 10:30, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

  • You've got a section on health care, but you also need something on the provision of public utilities, police and emergency services etc.  DoneKudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:23, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
  • You'll get a lot of grief over that bulleted list of notable people, and rightly so. In what way does someone dying in the town make them worthy of mention, for instance? So Nigel Kennedy has a home in Malvern, so what? For all we know it's up for sale and he'll be moving out tomorrow.
  • You need to combine those tiny subsections in Tansport.  Done
  • I don't see what architecture has to do with culture. I think you ought to consider separating out a Landmarks section for stuff such as the Council House and the Lawnside School for Girls, and probably the public artworks as well. In general I think the Culture section is very muddled, and here's one example from the Music section: "A sculpture group by artist Rose Garrard comprising the Enigma fountain together with a statue of Elgar gazing over Great Malvern stands on Belle Vue Terrace in the town centre. The Elgar Route, a 40-mile (64 km) drive passing some key landmarks from Elgar's life, passes through Malvern." What has any of that to do with music, particularly music in general,
  • Malvern water would seem better under Economy than culture to me.

I'll start addressing these points but if anyone wants to dive in and help they are more than welcome to do so. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

External links

Hi everyone. With this article being prepared for featured article status, I would like to suggest some external links be removed from this article, in accordance with WP:ELNO, a widely accepted policy that editors should normally be follow. Some external links on the article, such as newspaper and district council websites only related to the spa town I believe should be removed, per number 11 of the list of external links to be avoided, "Links to websites of organizations mentioned in an article"; these links may be used on those respective, relevant pages. I am also questioning whether the tourism link should be used, so I hope to gain a consensus for an appropriate change for the article. Best, TBrandley (what's up) 04:02, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

The list of external links does not seem to me to be excessive. And these would sit uncomfortably in the Governance section. Which links would you propose to remove? The only one which is not directly relevant to Malvern is the county council website. Regards Hallucegenia (talk) 07:23, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
WP:ELNO number 11 says:
"Links to blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority. (This exception for blogs, etc., controlled by recognized authorities is meant to be very limited; as a minimum standard, recognized authorities always meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for people.)"
Surely the local newspaper is a recognised authority, as are the various councils? As a slightly more pragmatic evaluation, if I were visiting this page for the first time, I would find these links useful. I don't think they should be removed. I would be happy to cut the link to Malvern Museum though (it's mentioned in the body of the article, and has its own WP page). GyroMagician (talk) 12:26, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I meant number 19 of the list of external links to be avoided. TBrandley (what's up) 15:51, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Population

That population is the population for the Malvern Hills council area, not the town of Malvern, and is thus drastically wrong (the real population is roughly 30,000). I would do it myself but wikipedia have changed the editing system and I don't understand how it works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theconorra (talk • contribs) 20:27, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

To Do

Run this check and update links or find new sources. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:16, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done ````

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School merge

I have suggested that The Downs Malvern should be merged to the Malvern article as it is a non-notable primary school, as per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. Any comments would be appreciated. CalzGuy (talk) 10:51, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

  1. Absolutely not, CalzGuy. This is a particularly notable school and a stable article for 12 years, contributed to by serious, highly experienced editors. Just because it's a primary school doesn't mean we systematically deete all primary schools OUTCOMES is neither a policy nor a guideline but is supportive of Wikipedia's generally inclusonist philosophy. In fact it's even slated to become a Good Article sometime soon. Please take a moment to learn more about how Wikipedia works, before making more such suggestions.
  2. Malvern is a Good Artice. It's not far off being prepared for FA. The last thing it needs now is unnecessary additions additions. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:53, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
So what is particularly notable about it? And when you say it is slated to be a good article soon, how come it is assessed as Start class?There is nothing in the article about the school except a bit of history and a bunch of unreferenced former pupils WP:INHERIT. The Auden stuff could easily be merged into his article, if it's not already there, and the history could easily go to a section in Malvern, or in Malvern College. The article title is not even the correct school name. It has 5 references and no photography. It is nowhere near being a Good Article. CalzGuy (talk) 14:09, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Its more notable features include its founding as a Quaker school, the Downs Light Railway and the historical association with W H Auden. The article name has nothing to do with whether the article should be kept. This nomination is bordering on the mischievious, your time would be better spent improving the article. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:07, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Can I just point out that the school isn't actually in Malvern - it's in not only a different parish but a different county!! If it's going to be merged it should be with Colwall. Sumorsǣte (talk) 18:07, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
You can indeed, Sumorsǣte, and thank you for doing so - It would certainly not belong in the Malvern article. Nevertheless, as a point of interest, the large village of Colwall is right on the border of Worcestershire-Hereforshire and being well within the urban agglomeration of Mavern, is actually one of its (non political) suburbs. It's 5 minutes by train, 10 minutes by car from Great Malvern, but a 40 minute drive to Hereford, its county town. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:08, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

I was asked to comment, as I've frequently been involved in schools discussions. Junior high schools and the (approximate) UK equivalent, preparatory schools, are not generally notable. There are exceptions, and in practice the basic criterion is that the schools are nationally known (as for many other types of organizations) . Due to the unique nature of the UK educational system, such schools are often found in the UK (many of the intermediate schools elsewhere are either intermediate school combined with secondary schools, or International schools which are a special case, but a number are left-overs from before the schools compromise was established & really should be merged).

This particular school is not just nationally known, but internationally, and not just well-known, but famous. In the days before the schools compromise, the best way to establish s school as notable was to shown famous alumni. This school clearly qualifies.

If we were to rely on the GNG, there would be no trouble showing this notable. And if we ever did merge, the appropriate merge would be with the associated secondary school. DGG ( talk ) 19:13, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Can you clarify what you mean by 'nationally known'? For a nationally known school, I would expect not insignificant coverage in national newspapers or other media and I just can't find it. Am I missing something? CalzGuy (talk) 16:53, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
I have been wondering about that too. There are several Downs Schools and in such a situation finding relevant hits on any related topic is hard work. Googling "The downs" "light railway" -"south downs" gets 5,340 hits, while "The downs" "W H Auden" hits 9.840 and on Google Books 1,610. Checkout too the Wikipedia articles which link to it. I don't know how other primary and preparatory schools compare with that kind of statistic, but this article clearly passes GNG. If I were to take any merge proposal seriously, it would be to merge the Downs Light Railway into the school article, although I suspect that the railway wikiproject would have something to say about that. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 20:23, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
There are lots of miniature railways that have their own articles, even if they are part of a park, school, etc otherwise. I suggest keeping things as they are, both for the school and the railway articles. Sumorsǣte (talk) 20:42, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Your recent edits have improved the article significantly. If it is merged I'm pretty agnostic about destination but as you say it is looking unlikely now. CalzGuy (talk) 20:47, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

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