Talk:Lyme disease/Archive 7

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Archive 7

Lyme disease is inaccurate naming. Rename to Borrelia burgdorferi.

In light of CoVid, which was initially referred to as Wuhan Flu by the media, the WHO changed their stance once Trump started to use their name and their financers Chinese Communist Party wanted to disassociate itself from the virus. Referring to the virus as "Wuhan virus" or Wuhan flu" was considered defamatory and anti-chinese.

In that same light, we should not pander to anti-american sentiment and must rename the virus to not mention Lyme, Connecticut.

Someone please change it.

I refer to the wiki-article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.183.139.49 (talk • contribs) 20:00, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

(Out of curiosity, can you cite any instances of anti-Connecticut prejudice associated with Lyme borreliosis?)

Wikipedia's role isn't to assign new names to diseases and pathogens; you would have to find reliable medical sources endorsing and affirming such a renaming, which would then be reflected in our coverage. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:19, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Can you with Wuhan flu? The source of renaming the wuhan flu to "covid" is in the article above and also the WHO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.183.139.49 (talk • contribs) 13:07, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

The article you yourself linked above, Xenophobia and racism related to the COVID-19 pandemic, contains several examples for anti-Chines prejudice associated with COVID.

The demand was not for sources about renaming COVID, it was for sources about renaming Lyme.

Learn how to read articles before you link them, how to read contributions before responding to them, how to use the correct words for diseases and how to WP:SIGN your contributions. --Hob Gadling (talk) 12:51, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

There is an opinion piece suggesting changing the name of Lyme disease to B burgdorferi sensu lato infection, or Bbsl infection for short, but no medical consensus for a name change. Therefore, the article name can't be changed. ScienceFlyer (talk) 02:19, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

New scientific reviews and guidelines

This page could use some cleanup and updates, especially in view of newer guidelines (North America, CDC Treatment, CDC/APHL testing recommendations, and France), and scientific reviews (See reports in Emerging Infectious Diseases, BMJ, and Nature). There is a new FDA-cleared modified two tier testing that is endorsed in the US and Canada. North American treatment guidelines now endorse 10 days of doxycycline or 7 days of azithromycin for early Lyme disease. Hopefully other editors find these resources helpful. ScienceFlyer (talk) 05:14, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Tick-borne borreliosis

Lyme disease is also known as 'Tick-borne borreliosis' in some scholarly articles. A quick Google headcount shows it's much less common than 'Lyme borreliosis', so I've not added it in the body. But just here, for the record. I refer for instance to Borreliosis: A Hidden Threat For Kazakhstan, Oct 2019, by Bissenbay, Zhigailov, Maltseva and Madaliyev. 116.48.27.189 (talk) 17:41, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Lyme disease page

Hallo all Just to point out that infections percentages in the introduction and the first phot do not match. That's all Regards Maurizio Andriani — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.38.66.205 (talk) 22:57, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

New York Times article about possible late stage sufferers

A column appeared on November 11, 2021 By David Leonhardt Title: Good morning. When modern medicine doesn’t cure chronic pain, what comes next? It mentions a source: "One of those sufferers has been my colleague Ross Douthat, a Times Opinion columnist. In 2015, Ross began to experience episodes of searing pain that at times left him unable to sleep or function. He has just published a bracingly honest memoir, “The Deep Places,” about these experiences." I added it under Further Reading24.210.152.37 (talk) 00:44, 12 November 2021 (UTC)24.210.152.37 (talk) 01:00, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for this suggestion. Ross Douthat reports that he tested negative but came to believe that he had chronic Lyme disease regardless of the evidence. Also, Ross Douthat is not a reliable source of medical information. ScienceFlyer (talk) 01:26, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 June 2021 and 11 July 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MariferL. Peer reviewers: TeHilla98.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lexiwalton.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:21, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Recent fringe edits

I've reverted edits by @antoine j that are sourced to promoters of pseudoscience. I'd also like to suggest some informative sources which refute the pseudoscience and may help to improve this article. Lyme neuroborreliosis: known knowns, known unknowns, Comparison of Lyme Disease in the United States and Europe, A Review of Post-treatment Lyme Disease Syndrome and Chronic Lyme Disease for the Practicing Immunologist, Treatment Trials for Post-Lyme Disease Symptoms Revisited ScienceFlyer (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Improving images

I'd like to add an image of the swollen knee typical of Lyme arthritis. Anyone have a preference? I was thinking of using CDC's photo illustration (either light or dark skin) or this one. ScienceFlyer (talk) 20:50, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I finally added the photo! ScienceFlyer (talk) 07:39, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Lyme disease in Australia

For a long time, the AMA and all governments were dogmatic that there was no Lyme disease in Australia. Because we did not have either those particular ticks or those particular bacteria. Following an overhwleming flood of (initially albeit) ancdotic evidence, it SEEMS to be the case that we do have a VARIANT of it, with slightly different bacteria in slightly different ticks. Mayvbe someone closer to the field than I can produce some credible references. 2001:8003:E490:7D01:11F1:88CF:3458:37C0 (talk) 09:27, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

If you don't have references, why are you posting here? — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 15:50, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Size of article and lead

The lead is currently approx 582 words. The body of the article is currently approx 12,229 words, or approx 81,972 characters. The total page size is approx 225,807 bytes.

This means that the lead is significantly more intimidating than what makes for a good article. Per WP:LEAD, Most Featured Articles have a lead length of about three paragraphs, containing 10 to 15 sentences, or about 300 words total. This article's lead is twice that.

As for the article itself, for our size WP:SIZERULE suggests "probably should be divided".

Note that this has nothing to do with how WP:LEADLENGTH discusses number of paragraphs. Yes, the article lead currently contains five paras, but I'm not nitpicking here - I am suggesting our lead paragraphs are slimmed down in size, not that we fixate on the number of them. It the overall size of the lead that's so long it's almost an article in itself!

Also note I did read WP:HASTE. In other words, I started by posting this talk section, not by making edits. CapnZapp (talk) 07:52, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

476k is a likely overestimate

@Slimjimwarrior This week, there have been three attempts to claim that the CDC-estimated 476k Lyme cases in the US is an underestimate. These edits are contrary to the referenced CDC web page, which states "This number is likely an over-estimate of actual infections because patients are sometimes treated presumptively in medical practice."

The edits are also contrary to the primary source CDC study, which is based on insurance claim data, not any sort of objective testing or diagnostic standards. In the second to last paragraph of the study, the CDC scientists note the long-established trend of overdiagnosis and overtreatment of Lyme disease in clinical practice. They also note that overdiagnosis could be why 19% of the insurance cases were reported in low-incidence states even though those states only represent ~5% of reported Lyme cases. ScienceFlyer (talk) 18:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

The study by Kugeler et al. does use insurance claim data and not direct molecular confirmation but it doesn't invalidate the study. misdiagnoses and mistreatment are not the same as underreporting. Your primary CDC estimate is based on information derived from the national Lyme disease surveillance system whic according to Kugeler et al. is subject to substantial underreporting. In another study [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4550147/] with the same authors of Kugeler et al. re-iterate that "The estimated number of clinician-diagnosed LD cases in the United States is higher than the number reported through routine surveillance and consistent with previous estimates of LD underreporting". Another CDC study [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5829628/ states again that cases are underreported. Slimjimwarrior (talk) 02:22, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

@Slimjimwarrior It’s important to distinguish between surveillance cases (confirmed, probable, suspect), actual infections, and people who are treated. It is well established in the references that the ~30k annual surveillance cases is an under-report (similar to other infections like COViD). It is also established that the 476k estimate is likely an over-estimate. Bottom line is that there is no support for your edits. ScienceFlyer (talk) 05:58, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect claim in etymology section

The claim is made that "Outside of the US and English-speaking world, the disease is known as borreliosis." This is incorrect as evidenced by practically all the translations of this article. 89.135.93.152 (talk) 23:09, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Plagues and People

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2023 and 11 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): GardOU (article contribs). Peer reviewers: 60shots, NatalieJHammons, TrippyVaultBoy.

— Assignment last updated by MatthewBroadway (talk) 22:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Discussion of man made

Why is there no discussion of a possible man made origin of the disease? https://twitter.com/byPeterParadise/status/1692009148484059432 74.143.215.54 (talk) 20:00, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Because conspiracy theorist Twitter threads are not reliable sources, there was no Lyme disease research on Plum Island, and DNA samples from museum specimens show that Lyme is caused by an old bug. See also No, Lyme disease is not an escaped military bioweapon, despite what conspiracy theorists say ScienceFlyer (talk) 04:56, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

A few years ago the Pentagon was ordered by the House to investigate these claims, so regardless of whether or not it's a "conspiracy theory" (which is more often these days a term used cynically by establishment shills to direct people away from learning about the lies that they're trying to cover up - see also: Covid-19 origins, vaccines, Hunter's laptop etc.), it is clearly notable enough to include in this article on that basis alone. As far as I'm aware, there is no wikipedia rule against mentioning notable "conspiracy theories". There are however rules against intentionally excluding notable information. 2607:FEA8:54DD:AE00:72AC:D7B5:C68:C78F (talk) 00:52, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

So provide reliable, third party sources about this investigation. Congress orders investigations into all kinds of things, that doesn't inherently make them notable. Often, they're political ploys to appeal to their constituents. We'll need actual sources that aren't just a trivial mention of the investigation.

If you can do so, please start a new section with your proposed wording and sources. It's not a good idea to revive months-old discussions. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 12:10, 4 November 2023 (UTC)