Talk:List of Church of Scotland parishes

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Parish boundaries

I am wondering whether and to what extent boundaries have changed with time. For example, are the parishes used under the Crofters' Holdings (Scotland) Act 1886 parishes which are now used by the Church? Also, I know Caithness has ten parishes much used in the collection of various kinds of data, including archeological, as in The Standing Stones of Caithness. Laurel Bush 14:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC).[reply]

Parish Boundaries are regulated by the relevant Presbyteries, and have been and are adjusted from time to time. The creation of a new congregation usually means (in time) that a new parish will also be created for that Church and congregation to serve. Population shifts mean that boundaries are occasionally adjusted by Presbyteries. The union of congregations mean that their parishes are joined together and there is no longer a boundary between them (although the external boundaries of the new larger parish remain). A new system of Parish Grouping is blurring the whole business of Parish Boundaries.

MikeG, Carnoustie.

It can be very difficult to get historical information about what areas were served by what buildings and ministers in the past. In fact, it can be difficult to get very precise information about where exactly the boundaries run today, unless you are privy to Presbytery records. I don't know if Wikipedia can really provide that, but it would certainly be good if articles on particular parishes contained precise information about historical unions and links. One of the biggest causes of change is of course that after the disruption (1843) the Free Church built parish churches which duplicated those of the national church, and after the reunion (1929) the church was left in many areas with twice as many buildings as required. The resulting rationalisation has taken place gradually over the course of the 20th century. Another cause of change is that better transport has meant that highland ministers can travel greater distances and serve larger parishes. But demographic change is the most common reason for adjustments. --Doric Loon 19:54, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The 2003-2004 edition of the Church of Scotland Yearbook has a special section on former parishes and congregations, including a list of former names. --Matthewross 20:19, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Photos

Good to see this list growing as more parishes and places of worship are being covered. Wouldn't it be good if we could get more pictures into these articles? They would be much more alive with visuals, and not just of the outsides of the buildings. It would be great to have an article on a church with 18th century furnishings, literally fenced table etc (there is one near Oban, I think) and an internal photo would be great there. --Doric Loon 16:59, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe even church in worship, with people in it? That's more important than just the architecture. 86.161.251.244 (talk) 13:27, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move

Mais oui, I wonder, is it really a good idea to rename this article? Apart from the fact that it creates lots of redirects (but you can fix those easily enough in time). It seems to me that we have an article called List of Church of Scotland synods and presbyteries, and that is the handier place to direct people if they want a presbytery list. What this article adds is the parishes, and there are so many of them that doing that one job properly should be quite enough for one article. I'm just thinking how these links may look confusing when they appear together on the main Church of Scotland page. A sensible compromise, if you do want the presbyteries in the title of this article, might be something like List of Church of Scotland parishes (by presbytery).--Doric Loon 14:45, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lordy, I hadn't seen that other article! Still, it doesn't really affect the naming issue. I prefer it as it is (I try to avoid brackets whenever possible), but I cannot say that I am that bothered. What I would suggest though is that these two articles are merged: they are basically identical in layout, and even when the work is completed, it should not break the 32kB guideline, or not by much anyway. It is very hard to see the advantage of having two articles. How about: List of Church of Scotland synods, presbyteries and parishes? Too long? Hard to see what else we can call it though. For comparison see:

and I'm sure that there are lots of other similar lists out there on Wikipedia, boundless as it is.--Mais oui! 22:38, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A few points. Synods are defunct, and had little impact before their abolition. Sure, they are worth recording, but perhaps not given the same prominance as existing parishes and presbyteries. I'm wondering whenther lists is the best way to go, what about:
  1. An article on Church of Scotland presbyteries - which can include a list, but also some description of history, merges, and what a presbytery does. Indeed it could include information about any presbytery, which can be split into a seperate article on that presbytery if it gets too long. (List of presbyteries can direct to that).
  2. Rename this back to List of Church of Scotland parishes - we can then organise it by presbytery without puting that in the title.
  3. Synods might be best included on the Church of Scotland presbyteries article for the moment - as a list and brief note. This can be split out later if anyone developes it (that may never happen). For the time being we could create Church of Scotland synods and List of Church of Scotland synods as redirects to the presbytery page.

Thoughts? --Doc ask? 23:22, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds very good. In my ignorance I didn't even know Synods had ever existed in the Kirk: I had only ever heard of them re CofE. Shows how often I attend! --Mais oui! 23:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Yes, that's the way to go. We need the list of parishes to be in a form that people can quickly find the link to the individual parish they want, since the number of articles on particular parishes is growing fast. I doubt if many of the presbyteries or any of the synods are really ever going to need their own article, unless someone out there has very ambitious plans. A simple list is therefore probably enough, though we may want a fuller description of what these courts did and do. I agree with mais oui about brackets in the title, incidentally.
Something else, though: you have started putting a list of towns which fall the boundaries of each presbytery, but obviously you have a long way to go with that; before you do a vast amount more work on it, we should think about the question of layout of this article, which could easily become cluttered.
Another question which I really don't know the answer to: the presbyteries are arranged alphabetically in this article, which is possibly helpful, but in the other one they are arranged according to presbytery number. There may be some wisdom in this - the simple list follows the official pattern, but the list with lots of information between the headings is made user-friendly. So probably that's better left as it is; I just wanted to point it out.
But I don't have time right now to do much work on this, so i'm just sticking my oar in to stir things and then I'll let you get on with it. --Doric Loon 12:02, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since, two months on, there's been no answer to my last comments, I have gone in there and deleted some of what seems to me as clutter. I realise Mais Oui spent some time adding this, but I think honestly that it is out of place. Having dead links to all the presbyteries would only be sensible if one of us were planning to write those articles, and I honestly can't see it. And listing the towns lying within the presbytery bounds (apart from the fact that Mais Oui only did the first five presbyteries and the job is unlikely to be completed) is distracting, as it makes it harder to see the important things, namely the links to the parishes. Besides, as the number of parishes listed here grows, the names of the towns will be clear anyway. --Doric Loon 21:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And another two months on, it looks like nothing much more is happening here, so I have moved the article back to the original title. There is a separate article with a list of presbyteries in a more helpful form for people who are looking for that info. This page does have the presbyteries, but is geared to people looking for the parishes. I hope you agree. --Doric Loon 19:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Parish/Parish Church

Um, is this article a list of parishes or a list of churches serving each parish? The article title suggests it should be the former, but the list of churches suggests the latter. For example, "Yester Parish" is very different to "Yester Parish Church". Yester Parish Church serves the parish of Yester, but is not the Parish itself. Even the CofS Yearbook list the Parish names, not the church names. Seems like a pretty big misunderstanding. Tpacw (talk) 16:06, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Details

Somebody (no username) has done a lot of work on the sections of this article on the presbyteries of Aberdeen and Angus. Now I think this is great, but I don't think anybody will be wanting to do the vast job of doing the same for all other presbyteries, and if they did, I think it would make the article too big. Can I suggest that these tables with ministers' names and times of services are just too detailed for this article. I don't want to delete good work, but I would imagine that moving that information to new aritcles on Presbytery of Aberdeen and Presbytery of Angus etc would be better (a few other presbyteries have their own articles - Glasgow, Europe) and that this article should be left as a list of only those parishes which have their own wiki articles. --Doric Loon (talk) 15:45, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Structure

Yesterday I added to this article several more lists of parishes but I agree with some comments above that the article will get too big if that happens to them all. Should I create articles for every individual presbytery which would contain the detailed info here. It would take time but I think would be easier in the long term--Uvghifds (talk) 16:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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