Talk:Juanita Nielsen

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Memorial photo

I presume that the memorial is limited to the little white cross in foreground. Surely it's a bit gratuitous and misleading to dominate the frame with a stone tomb which must vastly predate Juanita's disappearance. Bjenks (talk) 03:11, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From a closer look I guess that the old tomb may have been built for her predecessors in the Smith family, or maybe the Mark Foy family. Either way, I would think that the background needs be cropped out unless an explanation is added to explain its relevance. Bjenks (talk) 03:25, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Early life and career (previously Personal life)

I have changed the name of this section. It doesn't make sense for it to be the sum total of her life. It covers her life before she became famous. There is no need — and it is downright stupid — to cover her disappearance here, when there is a long section dealing with her disappearance following. Therefore I have removed the paragraph which deals with that.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:30, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Problems

  • I have tagged this "refimprove" because it has hardly any references, despite the controversial nature of the subject.
  • The "Disappearance" section is inordinately long and mixes together information known at the time and information known years later. The excessive detail tends to cloud the evidence. Do we really need a verbatim quote from the bouncer?
  • The information on the inquest is inordinately short. We heard more from the bouncer.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:05, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I also think there are elements of bias here:
  • I have removed the reference to the national leadership of the BLF (Norm Gallagher & Co) as "conservative". Gallagher was a Maoist.
  • The article also talks about "residents" of Victoria Street. If tenants have been evicted and refuse to leave, they are squatters. I can understand the point of view of the residents, but the article implies that evicting the tenants was illegal. Well, I don't think it was. The following passage is problematic: "Other residents of the street were regularly harassed by men employed by Theeman, as he attempted to have them evicted from their houses... Police officers did not intervene as Krahe's men worked." Why would the police intervene if a landlord was legally evicting his tenants? The problem here is compounded by the fact that the article talks about murder and organised crime. The article needs to be clear about what is legal and what is not.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:50, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Suspects - moved from article

I have removed the following from the article:

Although it has never been established who killed Nielsen, there are several major suspects.
  • Frank Theeman, the 'Victoria Point' developer, was considered by a number of journalists to be the prime suspect in the conspiracy to silence Nielsen. The costly delays to his development offer a highly plausible motive for Theeman wanting to get Nielsen 'out of the way'. Although no direct evidence has been uncovered conclusively linking Theeman to the presumed murder, there is clear circumstantial evidence of business links between the three main suspects, Theeman, Saffron and Anderson.
  • Abe Saffron, who owned and operated several businesses in Kings Cross, had numerous circumstantial connections with the case. Throughout his life Saffron (often dubbed "the Boss of the Cross" or "Mr Sin") was accused of having masterminded a wide range of criminal activities including gambling, prostitution, drug dealing and "sly grog" sales, and to have co-ordinated a network of bribery and official corruption that (according to his son Alan) included former New South Wales Premier Robert Askin and Police Commissioner Norman Allan. Although no evidence has yet surfaced to reliably link Saffron to Nielsen's disappearance, there are significant circumstantial connections—Saffron owned the Carousel club, where Nielsen was last seen, Saffron associate (and Carousel manager) Jim Anderson reportedly borrowed large sums from Frank Theeman, and Alan Saffron's 2008 book about his father claims that Theeman was one of several prominent Sydney business identities to whom Saffron lent money through a loan sharking operation, a claim which links to earlier reports that Theeman had tried to borrow money from Saffron to cover his 'loans' to Jim Anderson. Also, as well as her campaign against Theeman's development, Nielsen was also reportedly investigating vice and corruption in Kings Cross.
  • James Anderson has long been considered a prime suspect, although he protested his innocence right up until his death in 2003,[1] and the recent book by Alan Saffron supports the allegations that Anderson organised Nielsen's abduction. Like his boss Abe Saffron, Anderson's circumstantial connections to the Nielsen case are numerous: he reportedly borrowed a considerable sum of money from Theeman; he had business links to both Theeman and Theeman's "drug troubled" son,[2] and he was a known associate of the three men charged with conspiring to kidnap Nielsen. Anderson always insisted that he was in Surfers Paradise, Queensland with another person on the day of Nielsen's disappearance, and that he flew there with another man on 4 July and stayed for about three days in a room booked in his wife's name at the Chevron Hotel. However, Loretta Crawford later claimed that Anderson was at his home in the eastern Sydney suburb of Vaucluse that day and that she spoke to him by telephone. Police did not fully investigate Anderson's alibi, and they only determined that his car, which was left at Sydney Airport, had received two parking tickets. Police reportedly failed to contact the man that Anderson claimed had accompanied him to Surfers Paradise, nor did they verify whether Anderson actually flew there on that day or checked into the hotel.
  • Det. Sgt Fred Krahe, the former detective, has been named on several occasions by investigative journalists and experts on the case as Juanita's killer. He was a regular customer at the Venus Room, a nightclub owned by Abe Saffron, who also owned the Carousel Club, and it has been repeatedly alleged that Krahe organised the "heavies" hired by the developers to intimidate stubborn residents and force them out. The 1994 parliamentary Joint Committee identified Anderson and Krahe as significant suspects in Nielsen's disappearance. Alleged hit-man James Bazely named Krahe as the killer of Griffith anti-drugs campaigner Donald Mackay, and it has also been claimed that another allegedly corrupt detective, Supt. Don Fergusson, who was reported to have killed himself with his service pistol in the toilets at police headquarters, had in fact been executed by Krahe.

While I don't necessary think having a list is a bad idea. I don't think this list is very helpful. It's certainly not neutral.

  • Why isn't Trigg included?
  • There is a lot of questionable editorialising: "The costly delays to his development offer a highly plausible motive for Theeman wanting to get Nielsen 'out of the way'. Although no direct evidence has been uncovered conclusively linking Theeman to the presumed murder, there is clear circumstantial evidence of business links between the three main suspects, Theeman, Saffron and Anderson." It is not a "highly plausible motive" at all! Murdering someone is a high risk action for a businessman to take. And the delays were coming to an end. And what does the "circumstantial evidence of business links" prove? That's guilt by association. Business links can't be used to prove a murder conspiracy! Theeman and Saffron were both Jewish - what does that prove?
  • The paragraph on Saffron says very little about his connection to the murder. The argument that he owned "The Carousel" and therefore he must be guilty is bogus. In fact, I don't think he owned it.
  • The question whether Anderson was at Surfer's Paradise is overblown. He could have directed the murder from Queensland.
  • The paragraph on Krahe contains much material not related to the murder.

I think if this section is included any claims should be attributed to the journalists etc who made them, not made in an editorial style. Each paragraph should sum up the pros and cons of their guilt.--Jack Upland (talk) 05:49, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Neil Mercer. "To the end, 'Big Jim' insisted it was all lies" www.smh.com.au. 22 July 2003. Retrieved 21 March 2014.
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference Rees was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

John Innes

It appears that John Innes, undercover agent, did appear at the inquest. See page 185 of this report. So it is strange to talk about police presenting his evidence. He presented it himself apparently.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:42, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Innes's claims have come under question, and the ABC has withdrawn the story.[1] He was indeed a witness at the inquest, but denied knowledge of the Nielsen disappearance at the time. I will remove the information about Innes from the article.--Jack Upland (talk) 02:26, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Juanita Nielsen

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Juanita Nielsen's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "adb":

  • From Shirley Brifman: Dickie, Phil (1993), Brifman, Shirley Margaret (1935–1972), Australian Dictionary of Biography. Retrieved 30 November 2017.
  • From Donald Mackay (anti-drugs campaigner): Gregory, C. A. (2000). "Mackay, Donald Bruce (1933–1977)". Australian Dictionary of Biography. National Centre of Biography, Australian National University. ISSN 1833-7538. Retrieved 19 May 2011.
  • From Mark Foy's: Walsh, G. P. (1981). "Foy, Mark (1865–1950)". Australian Dictionary of Biography. National Centre of Biography, Australian National University. Retrieved 24 June 2013.
  • From Vaucluse, New South Wales: Rutlege, Martha. (1979). "Barton, Sir Edmund (1849-1920)," Australian Dictionary of Biography, pp. 194-200.
  • From The Bulletin (Australian periodical): Jill, Roe (1990). "Wildman, Alexina Maude (Ina) (1867–1896)". Australian Dictionary of Biography. Vol. 12. National Centre of Biography, Australian National University. ISSN 1833-7538. Retrieved 27 November 2018.
  • From Woolloomooloo: Judith Allen/Baiba Irving. "Devine , Matilda Mary (Tilly) (1900-1970)". Australian Dictionary of Biography.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 12:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disappeared mysteriously

See "See also". I'm not sure we should class Nielsen as "disappeared mysteriously". The inquest said she died on or shortly after 4 July 1975, although there was not enough evidence to show how she died or who killed her. It's not so much of a mystery disappearance as an unsolved homicide.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:15, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Disappeared status from the infobox

I have removed the disappeared status from the infobox. The consensus is that she died in 1975. No one thinks she is living a secret life somewhere. No one is expecting her to reappear. This is totally misleading.--Jack Upland (talk) 06:13, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Uncited content

I have removed uncited content:

  • In the early 1970s, property developer Frank Theeman (1913–1989) planned to construct a A$40 million apartment complex in Kings Cross. Theeman, who had initially made his fortune in lingerie, moved into property development in 1972 after he sold his Osti company to Dunlop for A$3.5 million. Theeman's plan for Kings Cross involved evicting dozens of people from their houses in Victoria Street, an area which the National Trust compared to Montmartre in Paris. Built along a steep sandstone escarpment east of the city centre and lined with rows of large 19th-century terrace houses, Victoria Street had commanding views of the city, the harbour and The Domain. The houses were to be demolished and replaced with three high-rise apartment towers.
  • Crawford later claimed that she knew that the advertising story was "bullshit", since the club did not advertise in "local rags", and that she was surprised that Nielsen kept the appointment.
  • According to Crawford, when Nielsen arrived she proceeded to the landing on the first floor where Crawford's reception desk was located. Crawford offered her a seat and a cup of coffee, after Nielsen remarked that she had had a "hard night" (i.e. she was hung over), but Nielsen didn't get to drink the coffee because Trigg had arrived for the meeting. Crawford said that she noted that he was on time, which she thought was unusual since he was often late for appointments. Nielsen and Trigg exchanged greetings on the landing and went upstairs to Trigg's office.

Most of the text is now cited to some degree and there doesn't seem any reason to keep uncited text in the article.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:18, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I don't think we need to give much credence to Crawford as she has admitted to lying to police.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:34, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First sentence

Nielsen is most famous as a homocide victim, so I think this should be in the first sentence. However this has been changed. Jack Upland (talk) 04:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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