Talk:Hypersomnia

Re-organization

I am proposing a major re-organisation of this page as much of it relates to a specific Sleep Disorder, Idiopathic Hypersomnia. Rather than grouping Idiopathic Hypersomnia and Hypersomnia together I am proposing that this becomes two pages. I am going to begin editing to reflect this. SleepyLloydy (talk) 03:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

I have created a page just for Idiopathic Hypersomnia. Would welcome comments on this idea, otherwise I will get to work on re-formatting the Hypersomnia page soon. Cheers, SleepyLloydy (talk) 08:29, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

I have re-written this page as per my two earlier messages. I hope my changes are acceptable - please let me know if they need modification. Thank you. SleepyLloydy (talk) 14:59, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

unipolar, mono

• Hypersomnia is identified as a symptom of bipolar depression more so than in people with unipolar depression.

It might be helpful to add that is has been proposed by some experts that hypersomnia can be a consequence of having mono. They have found several instances of patients coming to the sleep clinic at Riley Hospital in Indianapolis, IN who were afflicted with idiopathic hypersomnia and their symptoms had started after having mono. Often their symptoms lasted several years; some, however, have remained hypersomniacs. ---Blizpix 02:41, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

• If you can find a reference, it would probably be fine to add it. --Arcadian 15:01, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

• Here's a reference that states Bi-polar Disorder stating that Bi-polar a Bi-polar Major Depressive episode is marked by fatigue and other symptoms, with said fatigue a lot of times having to do with Hypersomnia: So, I assume I can add Bi-polar Disorder on the article, along with the source? --75.221.87.18 (talk) 18:04, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Famous people

This is very dangerous to list people who have hypersomia without any citations. Please find citations where it states that these indivdiuals have it, otherwise we need to be cautious and careful not to libel anybody. Hbdragon88 07:26, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I have created a List of people with idiopathic hypersomnia as a redirect. Hopefully this can be fleshed out as and when reliable citations become available for famous celebs with IH. SleepyLloydy (talk) 08:31, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

hypersomnolence ?

I don't think oversleeping should be redirected here at all. Find the specific item requested, not declare the disease from one symptom. Added by anon, unsigned.

I fully agree with that comment! Oversleeping is one of the primary problems of the most common circadian rhythm disorders. May be a symptom of other disorders as well. It is definitely not reasonable that it redirects here. - Hordaland (talk) 23:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Oversleeping & to oversleep are defined in Wiktionary. They were redirects in Wikipedia but have now been deleted. The concept needs only a one line definition, not encyclopedia article(s). - Hordaland (talk) 02:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Definition Problems and Proposed Solution

I agree with the talk section above: "hypersomnolence ?", and with the commenter who agrees with it. But I've decided to make a new talk section right here.

This article faces a problem. Solomnence has always been sleepiness, or a state of not fully awake. For decades, medically and among lay-people, it has meant that and never meant "a condition of sleeping a lot".

In prior DSM's, there were incorrect shadings of meanings creeping in because how they can often be related (sleepiness and sleeping a lot). The DSM becoming ever less sharp and clear and is now in DSM5 finally using words incorrectly in it's definitions. In the DSM5, it crossed over into outright errors in definitions, or at least into an attempt to change longstanding definitions. It's also now happening more and more in medical journal articles. I think DSM 5 and these articles are simply making errors of lay and medical terminology that accidentally crept in through categorization effort over time. I'm not certain about this part, but I really think it started in the International Classification of Sleep Disorders, and spread.

I will: 1. Show this is true about long-standing definitions being a certain way. 2. Show this is true about errors in DSM definitions, which are not just erroneous, but, specifically and unfortuneately, now allow multiple terms for identical things (terms which used to have distinct meanings). This is an especially bad form of error because the different terms identify pathologies, that seem less distinct. 3. Finally, I argue that we at Wikipedia should go with the longstanding and medical definitions of THE WORDS THEMSELVES and *ALSO* say what the DSM classifications refer to, using the correct words to describe things. 4. If anyone finds an article saying this somewhere, they will be a king and we will love him, and wikipedia will look solidly more complete, accurate, and professional in this one area than a few gaggles of physicians.

I look in online dictionaries, MEDlink researchers outlines, maybe other. Some offer medical definitions from their medical dictionary. Unless specified, it is NOT the medical definition of the term, it is regular the regular definition. Sometimes for medical terms, the regular definition and medical definition are identical. I write (identical for regular) and skip to the medical. Unless specified, words being defined are nouns.

So, 1. I note what the longstanding usages have been, 2. Note recent changes, 3. Argue a solution for us.

1. 1A. Somni/Somnia form and Hypersomnia word:

---

DICTIONARY.COM: somni- : (regular dictionary) a combining form meaning “sleep”, used in the formation of compound words. Also, especially before a vowel, somn- . somni- or somn- pref. (medical dictionary) Sleep: hypersomnia: (regular dictionary) a tendency to sleep excessively. hypersomnia: (medical dictionary) A condition in which one sleeps for an excessively long time but is normal in the waking intervals. -- MERRIAM WEBSTERS DICTIONARY ONLINE: somni- : Definition of somni- combining form. (medical dictionary) Definition of SOMNI- : sleep. somni- :(identical for regular) hypersomnia: (medical dictionary) 1: sleep of excessive depth or duration, 2: the condition of sleeping for excessive periods at intervals wit intervening periods of normal duration of sleeping and waking — compare narcolepsy. hypersomnia: (identical for regular) -- CAMBRIDGE DICTIONARY AMERICAN ENGLISH. DICTIONARY ONLINE: somni- : Definition of somni- combining form. (medical dictionary) Definition of SOMNI- : sleep. somni- :(identical for regular) hypersomnia: (medical dictionary) 1: sleep of excessive depth or duration, 2: the condition of sleeping for excessive periods at intervals wit intervening periods of normal duration of sleeping and waking — compare narcolepsy. hypersomnia: (identical for regular) --

I will finish this post later. ME: hypersomnia: sleeping a lot or deeply. hypersomnolence : tired a lot or very tired. Was gonna look at this next because it is ten years ago before all the conflating of definitions: http://www.medlink.com/medlinkcontent.asp "Hypersomnolence or excessive daytime sleepiness (EDS) is a common clinical complaint."

Even hypersolomence has meant a lot of, and severe solemnance, not sleeping a lot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artman772000 (talk • contribs) 09:26, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

hypersomnia, hypersomnolence, excessive daytime sleepiness

These are three different entities unfortunately mixed up as one in the present article. Jclerman 11:47, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

From MeSH D006970

Disorders characterized by hypersomnolence during normal waking hours that may impair cognitive functioning. Subtypes include primary hypersomnia disorders (e.g., IDIOPATHIC HYPERSOMNOLENCE; NARCOLEPSY; and KLEINE-LEVIN SYNDROME) and secondary hypersomnia disorders where excessive somnolence can be attributed to a known cause (e.g., drug affect, MENTAL DISORDERS, and SLEEP APNEA SYNDROME). (From J Neurol Sci 1998 Jan 8;153(2):192-202; Thorpy, Principles and Practice of Sleep Medicine, 2nd ed, p320) Jclerman 11:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Thorpy, among others, knew a lot less in 1998 than is now known about CIRCADIAN RHYTHM DISORDERS. Had he revised that section, I feel sure that they would have been included under "known cause." (OTOH, it was Thorpy who devised a modified chronotherapy, which he called "sleep deprivation with phase advance" (SDPA), primarily for adolescents with Delayed sleep phase syndrome (DSPS), already in 1988!) - Hordaland (talk) 05:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Quotefarm?

The {quotefarm} tag has been removed, but the remaining quotes from NINDS still make up too large a proportion of the text IMO. In word count: 39%. Especially the first long quote should be paraphrased. Replacing tag. - Hordaland (talk) 06:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit disagreement

There is a sentence in the article stating: "On November 21, 2012, a Department of Neurology research team at Emory University School of Medicine published findings showing..."
I edited this text filled with superfluous information about date and place of study - information that has nothing to do with hypersomnia, and replaced it with: A 2012 study found that... In my edit summary I stated: "...this is a primary source, a single study. Not sure it should be here at all."
This was reverted by CarsonsDad with the statement: "Wikipedians seem to be more concerned with form rather than making new, important information available to hypersomniacs".
Now, I did not remove any information about the results of this study. But I still wonder if the study should be here. I quote from WP:MEDRS: "Wikipedia's articles, while not intended to provide medical advice, are nonetheless an important and widely used source of health information. Therefore, it is vital that the biomedical information in articles be based on reliable, third-party, published sources and accurately reflect current medical knowledge." The study cited is a primary source, not at all reliable and third party.
So now that I have thought about it, the whole study should be removed. However, I will wait and give CarsonsDad the opportunity to answer. Lova Falk talk 15:28, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Glad to see that talk about hypersomnia has resumed after a 3-year gap. To avoid the appearance of giving medical advice, perhaps this study should appear in a section other than Treatment? Being a hypersomniac myself, I haven't the wherewithall to join a debate over whether the study is reliable, third-party or primarty source. I do know that current medical knowledge is extremely weak when it comes to hypersomnia and that frustrates me no end. CarsonsDad (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2012 (UTC) CarsonsDad

Thank you for putting my edit back in! Lova Falk talk 10:04, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Mental disorder

Hordaland you reverted the term mental disorder, to condition. Hypersomnolence is included in the DSM-5 and should be referred to as a mental disorder. Could you discuss your revert, and why you believe it should not be referred to as a mental disorder in our article.Charlotte135 (talk) 01:24, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

It is not correct to call (all) sleep-wake disorders mental, though any of them may impair cognition and/or mood. The American Psychiatric Association recognizes that mental disorders and sleep disorders are interactive and bidirectional. Some may be primarily psychological, others neurobiological. Sleep apnea, the Circadian rhythm disorders and Narcolepsy, to name three of many, have physical/neurological causes. Hypersomnolence itself can have any of many different causes, some psychological, some physical. Both psychiatry and clinical medicine deal with problematic sleep. Sleep problems are very commonly seen in psychiatry, and the American Psychiatric Association in the latest DSM revision has acknowledged physical conditions and causes more than before. As medical research and understanding progresses, future revisions will no doubt recognize even more neurobiological and genetic evidence for sleep-wake problems.

--Hordaland (talk) 05:22, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Hypersomnolence disorder is included in the DSM-5. We should properly refer to it as Hypersomnolence disorder in our article, not just Hypersomnolence. Calling it a condition as you have done, is far too vague. Are you wanting to call it a sleep disorder Hordaland?Charlotte135 (talk) 13:16, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Would it be okay to change the term condition, to mental disorder now Hordaland?Charlotte135 (talk) 00:41, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

(Sorry, Charlotte, I haven't looked at Wikipedia for several days.)

I used "condition" because hypersomnia would not be called a "disorder" if it is just a "feature" or effect of narcolepsy or some other disorder; the rest of the article makes this clear. But it can be a disorder in its own right. I have changed "condition" to "disorder" in the lead. Some disorders have a high rate of comorbidity with mental disorders while not necessarily being a part of, or caused by, a mental disorder. The current DSM makes this clearer than earlier editions did.

As Looie496 wrote at the reference desk: “I think there is a false assumption here, that DSM is only supposed to cover "mental" or "psychological" disorders. The reality is that the main function of the DSM is to provide a consistent set of labels for all the conditions that psychiatrists may be called on to treat. Even though sleep disorders are not considered psychological disorders per se, they are often co-morbid with psychological disorders…”

So: “disorder”, yes. “Mental disorder”, no.

--Hordaland (talk) 19:27, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Hypersomnolence Disorder is the mental disorder in the DSM-5. We should be referring to this. I think that both condition or disorder, are not specific enough and we need to use mental disorder. There were many comments at the science desk and most of them pointed to the correct terminology to use as being mental disorder. Is it the stigma associated with the term mental disorder that you object to?Charlotte135 (talk) 23:57, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

No. And no. Hypersomnolence disorder is in the DSM; it is not a mental disorder. Have you even read the article? Did you read Looie496's comment at the reference desk? There is a plethora of causes. Psychological causes are far from the only ones mentioned, here or in the DSM. Write a new article, if you like: Hypersomnia resulting from mental disorders. --Hordaland (talk) 00:44, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

You wrote this at the science desk. "(I do have a sleep-wake disorder. It's disturbing to be told that it's a mental disorder.) --Hordaland (talk) 06:38, 13 January 2017 (UTC)" While i am sympathetic to your condition, it is not a reason for us to avoid using the correct term in our article, that the reliable sources use.I also draw your attention to Nimur's comments [1] and Nimur's comment to you here, about your mental disorder. "So: whatever comes of your investigations into your own sleep condition, maybe you can step away with a slightly enlightened view of mental health!" I also changed the term to mental disorder as you changed it to disorder, without us agreeing to do so.Charlotte135 (talk) 01:40, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Excessive daytime sleepiness (EDS) is the correct way of describing a major part of hypersomnia Hordaland according to what the reliable sources say. If you don't agree with my change to our article, I am open to talking to you about it.Charlotte135 (talk) 20:10, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

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