Talk:History of the Oslo Tramway and Metro/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: DavidCane (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

General comments first

• Introduction
  • Suggest you explain here that in the 1800s Oslo was called "Kristiania", hence the name of the three tram companies.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Translations of the four company names would be useful. I'm guessing they would translate as something like "Kristiania Tramway Company", "Kristiania Electric Tramway", "Kristiania Municipal Tramways" and "Oslo Tramways"
    • Added in the body, to avoid crowding the lead. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Full stop needed at end of first paragraph.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • It is not immediately clear whether "Holmenkolbanen" is a person, town or company. A translation here might help make it clear that it is something like "Holmenkollen railway".
    • "Holmenkolbanen" with a single l is the former company while "Holmenkollbanen" is the line. --Eisfbnore (talk) 13:21, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
    • Changed to "the company Holmenkolbanen", followed by a translation. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "The same year the Grorud Line opened, as did the Furuset Line four years later". Suggest rephrase as "The same year the Grorud Line opened. Four years later the Furuset Line opened." to remove the inherent contradiction.
  • The introduction is quite hard to read and absorb with all of the lines being mentioned in rapid order. It leans towards assuming prior knowledge of the subject (e.g. the Common Tunnel is mentioned without explaining what it is). It might be easier to trim the introduction to give the dates when the companies were formed and the first lines of each were opened followed a more general indication that each of the companies expanded their services. Then indicate how they gradually merged to form the present arrangement.
    • I've tried to improve it somewhat, and perhaps left out some detail in order to present "logical groups" of lines. Now each paragraph is about the city tramway, light rail and metro, respectively. It is less chronological, and all mention of individual tram lines are left out, although the light rail and metro lines are kept. I've added approximate geographic locations (east and west), which should not alienate foreign readers, while making it sufficiently precise for Oslo-residents. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
• Horsecars
  • Again, prior knowledge is being assumed. The unadorned "Stortorvet" and "Homansbyen" would be better followed with "station" in the same way that Oslo West station is. "Oslo" would be better given as "Gamle Oslo" with "Old Oslo" provided as translation.
    • Stortorvet and Homansbyen are more halts than stations, in comparison to Oslo West Station, which was the second-largest railway station in the country. Neither Stortorvet nor Homansbyen have ever served anything except trams and buses. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "...direct line from Homansbyen to the railway station, but it was terminated on 19 October." reads oddly. I assume you mean that the route was closed. In which year was this? Why was it closed?
    • Done. I don't think i every really had a name, the source doesn't mention one, at least. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • A change in a headway from 15 to 10 minutes is not an increase but a decrease, though it is an increase in the number of trams available to customers.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • During which winter were the sleds tried?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Some indication of the length of the lines would be useful.
    • I have never come across any figures for the city tram lines, unfortunately.
  • Consider stating from which ends of the lines the extensions of the Vestbanen line and the Grünerløkka Line were made, also in which compass direction and how far. Are the places named as the ends of the lines the names of streets, suburbs or landmarks?
    • Most of the termini are named for either neighborhoods, streets or squares. For instance, "St. Halvards plass" is a square and "Thorvald Mayers gate" is a street. Consensus was reached at WikiProject Norway a while back not to "translate" street and square names. Grünerløkka is a neighborhood,
      • No need to translate, but which directions were the extensions?--DavidCane (talk) 16:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
  • You do not mention that the line was originally single track before you state that it was converted to double track. How were trams in opposite directions handled? Were there passing places?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How were stops on the tramway organized? Were there fixed stopping places like bus stops at the kerb-side or were they like stations with platforms?
    • Sources don't say. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
      • I'll see if I can dig up something on this. --Eisfbnore ^talk 21:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
  • How much did it cost to build the tramway and how long did it take?
    • Sources don't say. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
      • Ditto. --Eisfbnore ^talk 21:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
  • "...the company concentrated their investments..." should be "...the company concentrated its investments..."
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • You don't mention that the Stephenson cars were 4.1 m long until you refer to them with regard to the Skabo Jernbanevognfabrikk cars. Suggest that the length should be given earlier.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What gauge were the tramways?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What does "intended to be rebuilt to trailers" mean? You wikilink "trailers" in the next section.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Give a date for the "Trams at Athenum" image.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
• Electrification
  • As before, identify stations as such, give directions for the extensions, how far they run and how far they were extended.
  • Who were H. E. Heyerdahl, A. Fenger-Krog and L. Samson? Local businessmen, city officials?
    • Added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
      • Are we likely to see articles for these people? If we are, the article titles will use the full first name rather than the initial so the red link should go there. A Fenger-Krog is persumably the Albert Fenger-Krog mentioned as a director of the Holmenkolbanen. For which country was L Samson the consul?
        • I will create articles for all the three people, on occasion. They are all covered in Norsk biografisk leksikon. --Eisfbnore ^talk 21:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the Skillebekk branch line meet the Briskeby Line?
    • Added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Why were the KSS forced to convert to electric traction to compete with KES? Did they share similar routes?
    • Reformulated, as I'm not sure how much they really competed, although they both did operate through the east–west axis of the city center. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Be consistent with the use of abbreviations KSS and KES. Sometimes your refer to them as "the company". It would help keep the narrative clear if the abbreviated names are used throughout the article.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Vestbane Line". Should this be "Vestbanen Line" as previously?
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "The electrification was part of the extension of the Vestbane Line on 21 December 1898 and 23 June 1899, as well as the extension of the Oslo Line 17 November 1899." Are you saying that the extensions of these lines were electric from the start. What extensions to the Vestbanen line are these - none are mentioned in the KSS section as opening on these dates?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "An all-new line opened to Vålerenga on 3 May 1900, and to Kampen on 6 June." From where?
    • Added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the line to Aker start? Where did the intermediate steps terminate?
    • Added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What does "LHB" stand for and who/what is "Union"
    • Added/removed. I have never found out who Union is, or even their nationality. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "...giving the trams 36 kilowatts (48 hp),..." of what? Traction? Is this good?
    • As I havn't been particularly consistent about rolling stock specifications, I've remove dthis. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Was the line from from Frogner plass to Skarpsno a branch of the Frogner line or a line in its own right? If the latter, what was it called? did it connect to either of the other lines at each end?
    • Specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How did the KES number its existing lines?
    • Added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • You might need to explain the difference between a car and a trailer.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Were the 20 cars that were converted to trailers part of the 78 cars or from a different group?
    • Specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • After 1914 only ten cars were delivered. What is the end point of this period? For example, 10 cars between 1914 and 1920, or 10 cars between 1914 and 1950. Was this because they had enough or they couldn't afford any more?
    • Specified. Doesn't say, but I presume because they had sufficient. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the power come from?
    • The sources don't mention this, but Norway has an abundance of hydroelectricity. A brief search on the Internet doesn't turn up any sources which would be able to say anything. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
• First municpal trams
  • Explain what the Sagene Ring is. Where did it connect to the KES tracks to reach the East station?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
      • Your description of the initial route, does not seem to indicate a circular route that "Ring" would suggest. Was it a ring to start with, or did that come later? If later, it would probably be better to call it the Sagene line at first.--DavidCane (talk) 13:59, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
        • I think that Sagene Ring should be moved to Sagene Line, since the former was a service and we don't have own articles about Oslo Tramway services (Line 12, 13 and so on). --Eisfbnore ^talk 14:35, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Is the East station mentioned here the Østbanen mentioned in the previous section? Be consistent with names.
    • All now labeled "East Station". Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
      • As the article generally uses untranslated names, I think Østbanen is better throughout.--DavidCane (talk) 13:59, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Link or explain where in Oslo Tollbugaten to Kirkeristen are. What lines did the connection link?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "The second KKS line..." would be better as "A second KKS line..." The definite article suggests prior knowledge.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Ditto "The third line..."
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where in Oslo are Nybrua, Trondheimveien and Rodeløkka, Festningsbryggen and Vippetangen?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where where Busch and Schuk located?
• Consolidation
  • Where was the Vippetangen line extended from and where to?
    • Still need to say where the extension went.--DavidCane (talk) 19:27, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
  • "1921 to 23". Change to "1921–23".
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Again, what are the implications of the increased horsepower?
    • Details removed, per rationale above. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the Vestbanen Line extension to Skillebekk start?
    • Source doesn't specify, but we're probably talking about a few blocks. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
      • The Electrification section says that the Vestbanen line had already been extended to Skillebekk in 1898. Which is correct?--DavidCane (talk) 19:27, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Give a date for the "KES tram on the Skøyen Line" image.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Not sure what "An extension of the Vestbanen Line the remaining blocks to Skillebekk was finished on 2 November 1911" means. Are there words missing? Bob1960evens (talk) 12:35, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "From 1912, a number of connections were built between the KES and KSS networks, and the two companies started cooperating on certain lines." This may be duplication. Does this mean that more connections were built between the two systems, additional to the ones mentioned in the previous paragraph? Was the cooperation more than that which is mentioned in the previous paragraph? --DavidCane (talk) 19:27, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
• Western AkerHolmenkolbanen
  • This section does not explain where Western Aker is. The place/area is not mentioned in the section. Why not call it the "Holmenkoll line"?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the Holmenkoll Line go? How far?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
    • For the light rails and metro I have distances, so I'll be adding these. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "The system was not a rapid transit system because it retained level crossings." Why does this preclude it from being a rapid transit system?
    • That is one of the definitions of a rapid transit. I've removed the sentence since it really doesn't explain anything, just confuses people. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "The Holmenkollen Line did not take into use wider suburban stock..." awkward phrase.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the Smestad branch line leave the main line? Where in Oslo is Smestad?
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the Tryvann extension start? Length, direction?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What type of tunnel was this? cut and cover, shield-bored? What size; how deep?
    • Added blasted, which at least was partially true. However, none of the four books I have which cover the tunnel mention any details about this. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "forced the extension to not open until 1928" awkward phrase. Suggest "prevented the extension from opening until 1928."
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where is Røa?
    • Added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • There is no mention here that the company got into financial difficulties because of the cost of the tunnel, which is mentioned in the first part of the Nationalization section. That also states that the Sognsvann and Smestad lines were owned by the Akersbanerne.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
• Ekeberg Line
  • This is the first time that you have used the "A/S" prefix with regard to a company. Be consistent.
    • The A/S (or sometimes AS) is an abbrivation for aksjeselskap, meaning stock-based company. I think this prefix should be used on each mentioning of a tramway operator in the article, thus avoiding the confusion between "Holmenkolbanen" and "Holmenkollbanen". --Eisfbnore (talk) 13:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
    • I tend to disagree with Eisfbnore. It is normal to not use the entity pre- and suffixes on Wikipedia. The terms used as "Holmenkolbanen" and "Holmenkollen Line", which are sufficient to distinguish them. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Translation of "Ekebergbanen" required.
    • Not if Ekebergbanen (company) is the intended meaning. --Eisfbnore (talk) 13:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
    • I've added a translation. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • This company is not mentioned in the introduction. There it reads as if the Ekeberg line was part of the Holmenkolbanen.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Put "station" after the names of the stations for this line. Where in Oslo are they?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Gamleby Line". You haven't called the line from Stortorvet to Old Oslo this before.
    • Changed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Ekeberg Lien" => "Ekeberg Line"
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:00, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How long is the line?
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Make it clear that the agreement was with the KSS to use the KSS's tracks rather than for the KSS to use the Ekebergbanen's tracks.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "using 1,200 instead of 600 volts" were the other light rail/trames lines built 600 volts? Not mentioned previously.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where is "the steep climb". Use of "the" suggest prior knowledge.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • It's not clear if the KSS tracks were used or if separate Ekebergbanen tracks were constructed. Is the ",but" between the two statements necessary here.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • You have already linked "single track".
    • And that was even a disambig link. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • If the line opened in 1917 and the company did not start to double-track the route until the 1930s, this is more that the "first years" suggests.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Did Oslo not have anything similar to buses until 1924? How did people get about before the trams?
    • That is correct. The only thing was the coaches (the type pulled by horses), but the tramway at this time covered more or less the entire city and was sufficient for transport. For areas further away (which are today part of the city), there was mainline railways and steamships. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Put "station" after station names.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "was opened was opened".
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "...taken into use...". "...brought into use.." would be better.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Sjømannskolen, Kastellet and Bråten are presumably on the main part oft Ekeberg line.
    • Specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Date needed for "Ekeberg trams at Stortorvet in the city center" image
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
• Lilleaker Line
  • "light rails" change to "light rail lines"
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Which line was extended?
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Is the Jar to Sørbyhaugen section a branch?
    • Yes: specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • When and what part of the line was upgraded?
    • Specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "This service remained part of the municipal Oslo Sporveier, which had bough all the streetcar companies in 1924." This is tossed in rather like an aside. Something this significant should be mentioned in the consolidation section of the Street trams section.
    • Removed, as it seems to be wrong. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
    • "bough" => "bought"
      • Sentence deleted. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
    • Link "Oslo Sporveier".
      • Sentence deleted. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
    • "This service remained part of the municipal Oslo Sporveier..." suggests that other bits did not.
      • Sentence deleted. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Date needed for "Jar Station on the Lilleaker Line" image.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
• Akersbanerne
  • "municipal-owned" => "municipally owned" (occurs twice)
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the Østensjø Line connect to the street tramways?
    • Specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How long was the line? Where in relationship to the city centre was the new suburb of Aker?
    • Aker was a municipality which spanned three sides of Oslo and covered most of the present-day city. I've added a sentence to explain this.
  • You say the Østensjø Line was the first project. Were there others not mentioned here?
    • They had many ideas, but really only built the one themselves. Rephrased. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Chronology seems muddled here. Construction didn't start until 1922 and the first section opened in December 1923. The following section says the KSS was taken over by Oslo Sporveier in May 1924, so the KSS cannot have operated over the line for the first three years.
    • Good catch, didn't think of that. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • If A/S Akersbanerne was municipally owner why could it not reach agreement with the municipally owned Oslo Sporveier? This appears to be explained in the nationalization section - they have different municipal owners. Make it clear.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Also "never" seems inappropriate as the sentence later says the service to the city centre started in 1937.
    • Rephrased. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "and not until 1937 did they run trams into the city center." awkward phrase.
    • Thinking about this, using "not" in this was is a very Norwegian way to phrase oneself. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
      • "not until" was fine, it was the later part of the sentence that was awkward.--DavidCane (talk) 22:33, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
• Nationalization
  • Is it appropriate to call it nationalisation when it was the city not the national government that took over the companies? Municipalization is more accurate.
    • Sure, if that is also widely understood, I don't have a problem with it. My initial though was that while 'nationalization' is a very commonly known phrase, 'municipalization' isn't. But perhaps I'm just prejust.
  • concessions not concession - two companies started at different times. Might be worth mentioning this in the earlier sections.
    • Regarding the latter, it is not really vital to understand until explaining the nation.., um, municipalization process. I fear the reader might forget such a detail and it would have to be repeated here. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where in the city are Ullevål Hageby, Storo, Kjelsås and Carl Berners plass?
    • Explained. I'm being a bit vague right now in the hopes that I can get a map showing the 1939 network, which will make non-familiar readers understand where the various lines and places are. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Make it clear earlier that it was the tram network that was being expanded.
    • Okay. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "...has its most extensive tram network." should "..had its most extensive tram network."
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "car width be 2.5 metres" => "car width to be 2.5 metres"
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Oslo Sporveier decided they..." => "Oslo Sporveier decided it..."
  • What is the difference between the class B and class E trams? Make it clear the "Gullfisk" means goldfish. How do they look like goldfish?
    • The difference is so small it isn't really worth mentioning, so I removed that bit. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • When did the Akersbanerne come to own the Sognsvann and Smestad Lines? How did the Sognsvann Line transfer to the Holmenkolbanen in 1933? In the earlier Holmenkolbanen section it says these were built by the Holmenkolbanen and the Sognsvann Line opened in 1934.
    • This has been explained there. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Akersbanerne-owened" => "Akersbanerne-owned"
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "majority of share in" => "majority of shares in"
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Oslo Sporveier bought all but a few shares in Holmenkolbanen" Didn't Oslo Sporveier already own most of Holmenkolbanen through the Akersbanerne take over in the 1930s and the subsequent merger of the two municipal companies in 1949?
    • Only a majority, in the latter case they bought like 99.9%, but I've never seen the exact figures, so I can't be more precise.
• Closing of the tramway
  • The line to Korsvoll has not been mentioned before where was this?
    • Took me a while to figure it out, but amazingly enough I found a line which I hadn't heard of before. I've added the creation date in the appropriate section. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What does "a new line opened on 2 January 1955 mean"? What line?
    • Specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Trolleybuses have not been mentioned before?
    • Added a sentence introduced them. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • The Rodeløkka line seems to have closed twice: in 1949 and within a year of 1960. Which is correct?
    • It was closed, reopened and then closed again. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "The first closing of tram lines" and "The last closing of a tram line" awkward phrases.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Which line were Schewigaards gate and Etterstad on?
    • Added. ~~
  • The whole last paragraph needs further explanation as it assumes prior knowledge. What is the Sinsen interchange? Why was it planned to close the Ekeberg line? Why was the closure cancelled and how was this despite the need for a new line "to allow passage during the construction of the central station."? What central station? Where is Muselunden?
    • Think I've fixed this up. If this article has taught me one thing, it is the indecisiveness of Oslo politicians ;) Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • The last paragraph is about light railways rather than trams and there is also mention of closures of trolleybuses in this section. It may be better to rename the section to something more general.
    • Renamed "partial closing" to make it more clear that not all the tramway was closed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

--DavidCane (talk) 00:35, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

• Metro
  • I think this section starts too early as the first few sentences recover matters dealt with in earlier sections. I suggest it should start in 1949 with the formation of the Metro Office or 1951 when it launched.
    • Sure. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Is "Oslo Metro" the proper name of the system?
    • That's what its called on maps and schedules in English. In Norwegian it's referred to as 'T-bane', but Ruter has an itch to want to rename it 'metro' in Norwegian too, but that is still not official. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Rephrase first sentence to remove one of the two uses of "launch".
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Whose idea?
    • I've removed this, as it was just ideas, and nothing came of it. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • 1912 as start of construction disagrees with the incorporation date of 1913 given in the earlier Ekeberg line section.
    • Ditto. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Suggest you explain what "rapid transit" means in this context as distinct from trams and light rail.
    • I've rephrased to "metro standard", which is the term the city planners use for it in Oslo.
  • Try to avoid hanging statements like the one regarding the width profile matching the Holmenkollen line, so that readers don't have to read back to the earlier section to understand what this means. Why is this significant?
    • Removed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What plan and whose plan? Is this the same tunnel as mentioned under the Holmenkollen line section?
    • Removed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "but large cost expenditures on the first section of the Common Tunnel to Nationaltheatret ceased the plans" awkward wording suggest rephrase. Large costs are not necessarily a problem. I assume you mean the were over-expenditures against the original budget. If so, what was the budget and how much was it exceeded?
    • Removed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What is the Common Tunnel? I think the detail of this subject needs to be dealt with in just one place, rather than have snippets dotted around the article.
    • I've added a note about it when the first part is built (Holmenkolbanen section). Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What rebuilding after World War II?
  • Who established the "Metro Office"? What was its role? What were the first plans launched in 1951?
    • Stated. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Is "three years later" three years after 1951? If so, what happened between 1949 and 1954?
    • Yes. Planning. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Was the Metro only for eastern Oslo (lower case for "eastern" unless this is a specific location)? Where were the four lines going to go?
    • Stated. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • This is the first mention of some of the technical aspects of the trams and light rail. This could be put in earlier.
    • Not really. All it mentions is the technical aspects of the metro which differ from the tramway. There is no point in saying that a street tram in 1900 lacked cab signaling and automatic train protection (they still lack this). What I'm attempting to do is define the metro. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Who christened the plans "metro standard"?
    • Stated. Arsenikk ^(talk) 00:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Suggest that you mention that the Østensjø line belonged to the Akersbanerne.
    • By then, the Østensjø Line was part of Oslo Sporveier, as stated in the municipalization section.
  • Which areas were chosen as new suburbs for Oslo and where?
    • Moved so it's more logical for the reader. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "The Lambertseter Line opening as a suburban line from Brynseng to Bergkrystallen on 28 April 1957." seems to be an incomplete sentence.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Put "station" after the Brynseng to Bergkrystallen. Where are these places? Was the Lambertseter Line completely within Nordstrand or did it reach the city centre?
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • If the Lambertseter Line opened in 1957 and the Østensjø Line was extended in 1958, how can the Metro be said to have opened in 1966?
    • Explained. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
      • I still don't think that explains how it can be said to have opened in 1966, if two lines were open eight or more years earlier - unless you mean that this is when the lines were properly of Metro standard.
      • You say that the Lambertseter Line reopened after being upgraded, but not when it closed for the upgrade.--DavidCane (talk) 01:46, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
  • 16 October of which year?
    • Same as the last, but now specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did the Grorud line go?
    • Explained. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Link the Furuset Line here (too remote from the introduction to rely on the link there). Where did this one go?
    • Explained. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Does "At the same time" mean that the Grorud Line was being extended during the whole of the period 1970 to 1974 or that it was extended in 1970 or 1974?
    • Rephrased. Trying to avoid ending and starting a sentence with "in 1974".
  • Where are Grorud, Furuset, Haugerud, Skullerud, Trosterud, Vestli, Ellingsrudåsen in Oslo?
    • I've explained where the lines run, and supplemented with the up-coming map this should be sufficient. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • If the Metro did not open until 1966, what was it doing with the rolling stock it received before this date?
    • Made a comment about this. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Which are the western suburban lines? The Metro was said in the first paragraph of this section to be in eastern Oslo.
    • They started using metro stock from the late 1970s, but were not considered part of the metro yet.
  • Be consistent with date range styles - both "1964 to 1978" and "1978-1981" are used.
    • Consistentized. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What is the difference between T1000 and T1300? Were the converted cars part of the first 162 T1000.
    • Stated. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How long are these lines and how much did they cost to build?
    • I've added some key distances. Sources don't mention construction costs. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

--DavidCane (talk) 21:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

• One tunnel
  • Why not call the section "Common Tunnel"
    • Changed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Need to recap on what had gone before with regard to the construction of the cross city tunnel link before 1966. See note above about the opening date of the Metro.
    • Explained. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where is the tunnel?
    • Explained. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • You use US spelling for some words such as "center" and "canceled", but use "kilometre" rather than "kilometer"
    • I'm fixing this as I go. While I write American English, the {{convert}} template needs a parameter to Americanize. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • I think I queried this above but what type of tunnel is it?
    • You asked, and I still don't really know. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "station Sentrum". Suggest switching these around.
    • Mhm. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How much closer to the centre did the tunnel allow trains to get?
    • Stated. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Presumably the leaks were of water. Why did this cause the line to close; most tunnels have drainage for this sort of problem?
    • Explained. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Presumably the incompatibility in signalling and power equipment was due to the two previously separate networks.
    • Yes. This is mentioned earlier about the metro. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Suggest you clarify that the pantographs and third rail shoes were required on different sections of the line rather than at the same time.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "not until 1987 did it reopen" awkward word order.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where are Frøen and Montebello? Say these are stations.
    • Fixed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What was the significance of the T2000 cars?
    • Expanded. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • What about the budgets were the two counties disagreeing?
    • Expanded. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Is Akershus related to Western Aker mention earlier?
    • Nope. I've explained this under the section about the Lilleaker Line. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Is Bjørnsletta in Oslo or Akershus?
    • Specified. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where does the Ring Line go. Was this a completely new line? How long? Where? Is it a complete ring?
    • More details added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Is there a date for the tunnel collaspse so we can see if it was a long closure?
    • Added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • It might be useful to differentiate all of the different stock types by saying which ones are tram-like and which ones are train-like.
    • Fixed everything in the metro section at least. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
• Light rails and modernization
  • "Lights rails" is a bit colloquial. Can I suggest "Modernisation of light rail system" as a title
    • Changed to "revival of the tramway". Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "In 1977 the city council changed their decision to close down the tramway..." seems to suggest the decision had not yet been acted on in part or full. But the Nationalization section says the last tram line closed in 1968. Was the decision actually to reopen the tram system?
    • Not all the lines were closed. But no lines have been closed since 1968. Tryed to reformulate the section to make it clear.
  • How did the oil crisis influence the decision? Was it because trams were cheaper to run than buses?
    • Explained. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "After no investments on the tramway..." This suggests that the tramways were open but not invested in rather than actually closed. Presumably, the redundant trams had been disposed of or scrapped when the tramway was closed. New trams were therefore the inevitable consequence of reopening.
    • No, some of the tram lines remained. I've tried to make this more clear in the previous tram section. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • The chronology in the Nationalization section suggests that Oslo Sporveier already had a majority of shares in Holmenkolbanen. How was the merger just a name change for the latter?
  • "Was taken into use" is awkward.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Where does the Vika line run? Where is Aker Brygge.
    • Explained slightly. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Oslo Sporveier announced that they..." should be "Oslo Sporveier announced that it..."
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Was it just the Kjelsås line that had a replacement with buses?
    • Yes; have rephrased to make that clear. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • This closing and opening of things makes Oslo Sporveier seem rather indecisive.
    • Being a public company, it is the politicians who would have to decide any closing or opening of a tram line. And yes, they were very indecisive during the 1990s, in part because of a undeceive politicians. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Translations of "Oslo Sporvognsdrift" ("Tram operations"), "Oslo_T-banedrift" ("Metro Operations") and "Kollektivtransportproduksjon" ("Public transport production") required. Make it clear that these are separate companies and that the first two run the services over the latters tracks and that in the 2006 reorganisation the first two became subsidiaries of the third.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "Stor-Oslo Lokaltrafikk—who..." should be "Stor-Oslo Lokaltrafikk—which..."
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Presumably the three companies mentioned above continue in their roles after the merger. Did they take on anything from the previous Akershus network?
    • Stor-Oslo Lokaltrafikk only ran buses, so no. I've rephrased to specify that they kept their roles. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
• Preservation
  • Translation of "Lokaltrafikkhistorisk Forening" ("Local Traffic History Association").
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
• *"It was founded based on the closing of the Bergen Tramway, where only a single tram has been preserved." Explain.
  • • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
• Future plans
  • "In 2007, the political compromise Oslo Package 3..." Explain what this package is and why it is a political compromise.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
      • Is "projects" the correct word here? Should this be political parties? --DavidCane (talk) 02:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
  • "roadways" => "roads"
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Explain "Oslo package".
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • "To be finished" => "to finish"
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
  • The second paragraph needs a good copy edit. There are a number of things mentioned here without explanation and some poor grammar.
    • Done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
• Other Comments - in summary
  • Really think the map in the introduction needs to be bigger and the network diagram File:Oslo Metro diagram.svg should be included.
    • I've increased the size of them to 300px. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
      • I'm trying to get some geographically accurate maps of the system made, which may make it easier for non-Oslo residents to navigate the article. This may take some time; right now the servers I need are down... Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:26, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
        • It took some time, but now I've added a map of the 1939 system, which is when the system was the most extensive. After that, there were only a few lines which were moved and other which were closed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 22:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
  • There is no clear consistency with the way lines are named. They are sometimes given line names and sometimes talked about in terms of the end station.
  • Some indication of the increase in user numbers over the last century would be interesting.
    • Eisfbnore as added some figures; I havn't come across anything newer (his figures are from a book I don't have). Arsenikk ^(talk) 21:17, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
      • I've just borrowed two anniversary books by Oslo Sporveier from 1935 and 1975, respectively, and they both give very detailed information about ridership for every fifth year since 1875. I don't know where to put it, in an own section about ridership or cronologically in the prose (as I've done so far)? Eisfbnore ^talk 20:16, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
        • Chronologically seems most logical to me. Perhaps every fifth year is too often, but numbers for each decade or so would perhaps be okay. Still, that leaves 14 numbers, which is maybe a bit much. Arsenikk ^(talk) 21:42, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Information on the cost of construction?
    • I only have the cost of some extension and some of the newer lines. Arsenikk ^(talk) 22:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How many stations? In total and on each line?
    • No data exists for the tram lines, although there are some things for the metro and light rail lines. I've added where it was appropriate and numbers are available. Arsenikk ^(talk) 21:17, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
  • How long are the lines?
    • I've added a few distances where I have them, though I don't have such figures for most of the street tram lines. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Re-read and copy edit to ensure that themes are kept together.
• Formal bit

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   See comments above.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   See comments above

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   There are a couple of images that would be useful - see above. Some captions need work - see above.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   On holdPass

--DavidCane (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, the everything has now been seen to. I've added a geographically accurate map which should help people without Oslo geography knowledge easier understand the geography of the lines. A geographical map of the current system (railway, tram and metro) will be made in the near future, although these maps are fairly time-consuming (I've spent more time making that map than copyediting this article, for instance, in part because my laptop is underpowered for such a feat, in part because I wasn't quite sure what I was doing). There are a few things above where I forgot to 'tick', but these have also been done. Arsenikk ^(talk) 21:17, 10 December 2010 (UTC)