Talk:Foster care/Archive 2

Aging Out

I felt like this would be a great topic to link with foster care. I wanted some feed back as to if it would be necessary to add this to the article and/or discussion. Lelek310 (talk) 19:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Ethics in Foster Care

Why doesn't anyone talk about Ethics in this very sensitive subject? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.217.233.144 (talk) 17:06, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

This is a valid point. I am disturbed by the discussion in this article which argues against the inclusion of material that would suggest criticism or praise of the foster care system, as if they were an entirely subjective subject matter. While I do think there can be disagreements on a subject matter, it is important that an encyclopedic article illustrate even that uncertainty.

Rather than censoring the viewpoints of those who would criticize or praise the foster care system (on the basis that their views aren't 'representative'), we should use unsupported praise or criticism to direct us to more large scale, valid sources which can help us gain a broad understanding of the subject matter. The foster care system seems to be one with both notable successes and flaws. It is not one without the the other, and shouldn't be treated as such. -Lyc. cooperi (talk) 07:40, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

US-centric nature of article revised

I have not gone through the history and checked for the censorship suggested by several comments on this talk page (which may show to be true, given that (one? several?) of the users involved in edit wars had several sock puppets and a history of very biased, dogmatic conduct on this topic). I have tried to stay relatively neutral to adding or removing content. What I have done is move most content in the article which is specific to data originating in the U.S. under the U.S. section and re-organized said section to separate the basic legal structure from the social effects which have been recognized and criticized of it. -Lyc. cooperi (talk) 08:00, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Research Paper

I'm writing a paper about what needs to be improved about the system - the entirety, from kids, families, social workers, group homes, organizations to anything else I come across in my research. If you or anyone who has a story would like to share it with me for my paper, no names will be mentioned, please email me at <blanked>

When I am done with my paper, I'll come back and help fix up this article.

WindmillObsessed (talk) 19:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I wish I could Wind, But the lawyers name who can give you tons more info then I am able to is named Robert P Lee. He is a lawyer in edmonton Alberta Canada,representing what is 400+ of us as the main complaintives... and the other 5000+ who are sub complaintives. That is just for Alberta alone. BC also has a lawsuit starting. Manitoba has one in the works being filed. One in Ontario is having troubles as the judges are protecting CPS here for some reason. Probably becuase the judges are the ones in the end who sent us into these nigthmares of abuse and death for some of us.. well many of us..

I can tell you... out of 35 of us I knew and grew up with in foster care and the kids hiding from foster care on the streets... 3 of us are alive today. Myself and two others the other 2 are in jail for life. Why didn't I share the same fate? I took off at 15 and never looked back. I got cought every now and then and dragged back to my group home but I always escaped again. So I didn't become institunalized and dependant on the system. Many of my peers died from drug overdoses... many of whom got hooked on drugs in fostercare after being force feed them to make us docile and easier to manage... then dumping them in the streets and and having them go threw withdrawl and doing the first drug they can find... never knowing what they are doing or how much is too much.

Foster care is nuthing more then legalized kidnapping and child trafficing..

Adoption is child trafficking.. Part A gives party B money. Party B gives party A a child. Just so we are clear. If party A gives party B money and party B gives party A a computer..... Party A just bought a computer, and party B sold it to them.

So giving child trafficking a pretty name like adoption does not change the reality of it. Having it be a person rather then a computer does not change that money was passed for ownership of the child. therefore it is child trafficking.. only the indutry and the people making millions and those people like those here who would edit our posts misinforming many would or could ever think otherwise.

I hope we will get along in the future. I'd hate to have to become nasty.

Perhaps you need to do a google search on foster care abuse lawsuit foster care albterta. http://www.kleinlyons.com/class/alberta/NewsMay17.pdf http://www.docken.com/NewsStoryDetail.asp?NewsStoryID=101&mode=1 http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technology/Edmonton+lawyer+applauds+judge+criticism+Alberta+Children+Services/1829734/story.html

http://www.lrwc.org/letters1.php?scountry=CANADA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.155.58 (talk) 17:35, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Foster Care Umbrella

I think it should be noted that the foster care system includes children placed in group homes, institutional facilities, and living under supervised independent living arrangements. Foster homes, in which an outside person or relative cares for a child is just one example, children in the Foster Care System should be defined by those who are in living arrangements under government supervision. By making the entire article about foster homes and not the foster care system is not accurate. I'm not sure how to go about changing this but hopefully someone will and help me out... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.165.95.70 (talk) 02:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

This comment is specific to a country (I don't know which one). It does not relate to Australia. Could people wanting to make comment be more specific about where their knowledge lies rather than assuming Wikipedia is all about their country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.110.37.119 (talk) 06:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

In todays modern society it takes longer to acquire skills and mature, resulting in an extended youth condition of dependence. Wealthy families are extending supportive services and many college graduates must return home for more nurturing in preparation for adulthood and self support. Meanwhile children in poverty and foster care are aged out at 18 years of age, with the statistical result of mass imprisonment and loss of medical services.Common homelessness leads to poor choices and harm including death at an early age. Those with medical conditions go untreated or under treated with predictable poor outcomes, including early disability and loss of workability.

It seems poverty as a condition leads to imprisonment. Children of poverty are expected to perform at higher levels of accountability then wealthier people and they in mass represent an outcome of future encarseration and care or and exploitation by the government. Foster children are then out of sight and out of mind. Criminals deserve stiff sentencing, or so thinks the common American? But label as children of poverty, of foster children perhaps the outcome would not be one of imprisonment, but support until fully developed as productive adults?

The umbrella of foster care does not prepare children in poverty for the future responsibilities of adulthood. It provides a short respite from harm at best and at its worst it trains children in poverty to accept less out of life, neither free from future harm and conditions of poverty which may place them and future generations on a predictable path imprisonment and loss of workability. The United States of America has the largest prison population in the world. For the majority of US`prisoners they share conditions of poverty not race.religion or sex. ---survivor'72-- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.104.160.39 (talk) 23:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

First hand insight

I was stolen and in foster care for 10 years. No one knows the truths of foster care better then those of us who have been threw it first hand. So by removing posts from people like myself. Not only do you push ignorance and you stop any chance at making the system better for every one, but you stop any chance at us all having a system we can all be proud of.. I understand it's offensive to some but that does not make it less true or make it go way.. only by caring and looking at the facts and the stories of those of us who survived will you understand the reality of what you are pushing onto little kids.. and innocent families... while allowing those who do need the systems help to suffer... making this one sided is low... I am part of a class action law suit for just this reason... and work with those who were traumatized by the foster care system... trying to come to terms with what they went threw...

It's disgusting and those who delete our additions should be ashamed..

Our experiences trump your opinions... 10 fold.

....and get ready to sit there for a few days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.155.58 (talk) 17:30, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Kids like you need find a lawyer to file a Civil rights lawsuit in U.S. Federal Court, because parents or friends cannot represent minor children in court, unfortunately only lawyers can do that by rules (see Pro Se in Fed Court). If you already 18, then you can file yourself. Read this article: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/04/gresham_foster_kids_abused_des.html Even if abuse happened several years ago, sometime it may be still possible to prove it, see Ex-foster child gets $30M in Calif sex abuse case Try to make video or voice recording of the abuse. It may be better to go to Federal court if you want social workers to be responsible for part of the damage, because State courts can be more focused on protection of their state agencies, then your civil rights. Also natural parents who's children was taken away by social workers in violation of the Federal Law, may have a better luck with Feds then State courts. See ROGERS v. COUNTY OF SAN JOAQUIN, No. 05-16071, also BELTRAN v. SANTA CLARA COUNTY Ask court to protect your name, if you afraid to go public. I have went to Federal Court Pro Se (i.e. without lawyer) once myself, that is not that bad, you can do it, paralegals can help. Only cost about $350 to file the case, See Utah Civil Rights Complaint Guide. You can modify this form for your state. Also there are some lawyers who will work for percent of your future compensation; or you can ask the court to appoint you a lawyer at the court expense. Good luck! God bless.

P.S. Stop removing this foster kids comments - you have no idea what abuse they have been suffering. Innab (talk) 21:53, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Since my last edition to this site I see most has been removed. So glad abused kids in care have people like you to help ensure noone ever knows their suffering. I will be editing this section and doing a Canadian one. I am a game designer/Computer tech/security expert/Support worker for abused kids in foster care/human rights activist/Foster care survivor/child pornstar (Thanks to CPS who people here seem to adore.. man not sure what that makes you... but whatever. I am supported by hundreds of thousands of people. I was labeled by media here as "Canda's biggest child rights advocate for children in foster care".

So if I add something to this in my Canadian section you not only do not have the right to removed what I post unless you lived in foster care in Canada, lived in 21 different homes 12 grouphomes, adopted/sold 5 times and given back 5 times ended up on the streets more animal then human and could not read or write. But in doing so you hurting more kids in care who people need to know the realities of, and what they pay the government to do to us on their behalf. I have been fighting for change in the system for over 8 years. And am well respected in my circles and many prominent circles...

When I get this ready to post my section I expect it to be left untouched... or that makes you just as bad as the people who victimized us and used us to make child porn.

Don't touch my posts.If my posts are removed edited or deleted for ignorant reasons. I will mass email our networks and people apart of them.. All across the globe... and instead of just fighting me you will be in a edit battle with more people then you know what to do about, most of which suffered in foster care and earned the right to post here, where your simple un-informed opinions do not cover the topic of foster care in the slightest. Other then what the industry wants people to know so they can keep getting continued support. As well I will ask them all to to mail wiki directly and explain what is going on this topic and the Nazi gestapo attitude from the guy maintaining this topic.

I hope I made myself clear. We who survived the worst foster care has to offer, have the god given right to post here. We will back it up with sources and all. Our lawsuit has slapped 3 attempts to have it thrown out of court, the government now wants to Seattle out of court, but we won't have any of that. So they have admitted it and offered settlement. This is not just a few cases here and there in Canada.. we are only one of the 10 law suits and the first hitting the government for what you people call a "Great thing helping kids" Amazing how your ignorance can allow such suffering to remain unknown and delete any attempts at making it known.

Like really what kinda person does that to children?

Well??? ...do answer.

Here's the thing. Wikipedia does not accept original research, only material that has been published in independent reliable sources. Unless you can provide that, your material will be removed. TNXMan 17:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

TNXMan, this is a main problem with this kids, that nobody believe them. Social workers and Foster parents are always portrayed in media as holy as Pope. Well, now we all know that even priests sometime is not that holy... Most of these kids was forcedly taken away from their natural mothers for very minor reasons, like couple bruises on their legs. Social Service workers got paid for their job done, and who cares what happened to these kids after? Innab (talk) 01:16, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

And No TNXMan I am not directly talking to you. The person I am talking to knows who they are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.155.58 (talk) 18:38, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Better start reading buttercup.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

I can give you more links if you need them? I got about 20 more... some get very graphic some are very disturbing. I could also provide some links from the Alberta Law society it's self if you wish? Unless you think they are "not creditable"

So sit down and don't be a Wiki Nazi. Stop helping child abusers and pedophiles... it's the absolute lowest you can go in life man... like really what is wrong with you? Oh... wait I bet you work for them or did at some point. As only one who would work with such disgusting people would attempt to remove REAL information about the foster care system from those who lived it first hand and survived to tell the story. I will find the law society links in a minute here and post them.. thanks for fixing my links.

http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/Life-in-the-balance.html

Hummm seems my other links from the law society are gone now... I guess I gave them out to much...lol.. Now all that is left is a letter of rep-remand against our lawyer for trying to help us. His own peers are trying to get our lawyer disbarred for even trying to help us. http://www.lawsocietyalberta.com/files/hearingreports/RobertP_Lee_HE20060050_Part1_4Sep2009.pdf

They have been trying everything they can think of to shut us down... from threatening us with lawyers to threatening our lawyer to even trying to get him disbarred. These people will do whatever it takes to hide their crimes... imagine what happens when 1000+ of us get up on a stand in a court of law and tell our stories... Judges lawyers and government officials good names will be compromised and we may end up being able to take the judges to court for unlawfully imprisoning us in the foster care system and unlawfully/wrongfully prosecuting our parents. This is a multi-billion dollar industry off the backs of so called "abused kids" all the while rich, lawyers, judges and government officials are making quite a haul off of the poor's children as well as exploiting them to make "distinguished" careers ... sick totally sick and if you support CPS and these sickos ..... I truly don't know what that makes you. We will leave that for Karma to decide.

Trust me when I say.... this is just the tip of the ice burg, others of us are having the same problems in other provinces... surprise surprise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.155.58 (talk) 18:00, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

See here is the thing. There are not facts about foster care available online. No real research has been done as all info is private and confidential. So even what you posted here is only opinions... it can not be fact if you hold me by these standards you must also hold yourselves to those standards. The fact is it is against the law to have any information regarding the workings of foster care other then what the CPS people give you to read. Or they give to the government to read. It is against the law almost everywhere to relay information about foster care or the kids in it. The government has no viable information at least here in Canada about fostercare or the issues surrounding it. So if you delete my section as a lack of creditable sources then you must also delete the rest. Other then; Foster care is a place where children go while the system investigates abuse or what ever other reason may be there. Foster care leads to adoption. Every adoption agency and foster care agency are run differently from each other, there is no standard of rules regulations or functions as you imply there are here.

So you hold me to those standards be prepared to hold yourself to them. And I can prove your information is wrong very very wrong and you have truly no idea what your talking about. Other then the B.S lines you been handed just like every other sucker out there who thinks CPS are the good guys and help children. If the experiences of a mass of people in foster care don't count as a credible source then one has to wonder how your information could be considered any more creditable. But it does show why this is happening and why these kids are ending up dead and noone gives a crap. When it comes to foster care.... non of you do give a crap or it wouldn't be happening and they would not be using your tax money to do it to us with and for.

if I offended anyone who works in the system my bad... just imagine how offended I am at being used to make child porn by the system and those who work for it.. then grow up and try to tell others and people are like: So?

I guess they must like child porn and think it's okay... that is really the only viable reason this would continue full speed....That and as much as people pretend to care about one another... 99% of you lost that ability many generations ago. I kinda feel sorry... I wonder what it must be like to live with out ones own humanity. I guess it must be easy if you never had it to begin with. The foster care systems in 90% of locations around the world are nuthing more then common criminals running the biggest conjob we have seen this century stealing and selling the poor's children.

In Canada rapists, murders, pedophiles, junkies all have rights in a court of law. Families and children do not. They are brought into secret court secret hearings our parents are allowed no support or outside entities to help them in court. Even their own lawyers will not properly defend these families and children for fear of retaliation if they go "against the grain".And as you can see with Mr R.P Lee and what he is going threw trying to stand up to them and help these kids and families.

In Canada democracy died along long long time ago... and was replaced by the upper-class dictating how everyone else should live. No poor people in government call the shots or have any influence our own government officials ignore us and the hundreds of thousands of emails they receive every year. To give you a good idea about what kinda people run our country... they thought it was funny when we first started the lawsuit.... I guess they don't think it's so funny now. But we do... we never thought for even a second we would get this far. Let alone squash 3 attempts to shut us down. Best part is the government is now paying for us to sue them. Some part of this whole thing kinda seem worth while when you see the pickle we got these fake government leaders in.

)

206.186.155.58 (talk) 20:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I've been reading your postings here and wanted to point you towards this information. Please be aware that attempts to insert soapboxing or other material that is not written neutrally into the article will be removed. TNXMan 20:59, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I am not part of the lawsuit and have chosen to remain that way or do I stand to benefit in anyway from this And the key reason I am not part of the lawsuit. So that when someone says something like you just did to me I can slap it down to the dirt... for even trying. None of these posts promote me or anything. My name company or anything aside from providing the lawyers name for reference was not posted here. I am 206.186.155.58 and as soon as I reboot my pc my ip will change. This is the discussion section. So I am providing the other side of the coin noone seems willing to face. Cowards..

Neutrality on this topic in wiki?... your kidding me right? How do you remain nuteral about being used for child porn by the sick demented people running foster care?

How do you remain neutral about child abuse and child porn?

• cricket

Again I refer back to not even having a ounce of humanity left between our entire population put together. Sorry if I seem negative but in 20 years nothing positive happened until the victims of the system started to age out out the system and started coming forth by the thousands...

Here let me be positive and neutral.

I loved getting corn holed at 10 years old every night for 2 years. I really enjoyed being in my own porn movies at 10.... See that's being positive... now let me try neutral.

Being cornholed at 10 presented myself with the chance to learn about sex and about general people. Getting used for child porn has it's advantages and disadvantages. One advantage could be becoming an expert in sex by age 10. On the bad now as an adult if you touch me, I will brake your arm before I know what I have done.

Gee.... good..... bad... I'll let you decide while I remain neutral.

Trust me when I say don't touch what I post it will start something you want no part of I assure you. Even if you lock this topic that is just as good as letting my edit it.. it will help me as I use it for an example of how the truth about foster care and the suffering kids go threw in care is everyone's responsibility and fault.

This sadly is just one instance where if your not part of the solution ..... then you are the problem. Deleting what I post or say will not change this fact. Taking out what myself and others have tried to add to this section will not change it... but it does make you look pretty bad.

Once they delete my edits then I will mass email and this topic will have to remain locked permanently. My email list consists of over 5000 foster care survivors who are all doing the same thing I am ... informing others. We will ensure this page stays locked for as long as it's up. We are a collective. In 6 years we have the CPS systems everywhere under attack almost everywhere even Bill Cosby is now speaking out against CPS...

They can edit what ever they want... but cause and effect is a bitch..... if I sat down and included in the email the command for CMD: Ping wikipedia.org -t -l 56000 and told everyone just type that in their run bar at the bottom of the page and told them to minimize it wiki would become so slow it would be pointless to use it. Arresting 5000+ people spread out over the globe is the only way to stop it trust me we as a group have done far worse to make sure our side is not stuffed under the carpet .... I'd pay money to see that 5000+ people. I was a hacker before I decided to help people. I do not do anything myself.. I just provide others with the tools info or advice to do it themselves. All I gotta do is say I suspect a CPS workers is the mod for this topic.

Rules or for stupid people who choose to follow them. For the record their is nothing illegal about typing that command and leaving it. I will be back once everyone has their section complete. I look forward to our future encounters.

Note this is not a game... children's lives are riding on the truth becoming known. And for the kids we will do what ever we have to. They are only kids and can't fight back... so now those of us who are grown up can fight back.... and we are... the CPS industry only has a few years left before they crumble.... as they are now under attack from everywhere and most people now know the truth.. but like this topic and those moderating it... there are still a few ignorant know-it-alls who still think they have some clue and pretend to be "neutral"... but after reading this topic you know they don't have the foggyist notion or are they neutral in the slightest... to be honest I am amazed that the topic I posted so long ago is even still here. But it was harmless to the CPS industry..s o it was left up. Kinda reminds me of how CPS threatened Youtube and had almost every video saying something bad about foster care removed and left only happy and promoting CPS videos. We beat youtube... so don't think you will do any better...80% of oiur videos have been reposted and now when new ones are added they stay up.. and now CPS and their boards of directors have bigger problems then videos on youtube...lol..

Ain't life swell?

Cheers!

Oh and for the record by law I have been recognized as a specialist in the foster care abuse field. So If I release a report and reference it threw here. Legally it's binding and is a legit source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.155.58 (talk) 21:47, 7 December 2009 (UTC)