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Upcoming or recent sources that can be used to improve the article
Riley-Smith, Ben (2023). The Right to Rule: Thirteen Years, Five Prime Ministers and the Implosion of the Tories. Hodder & Stoughton. ISBN978-1-39-981029-6.
I see that under someone has written do not change "as at" to "as of". Is "as of" not correct, considering that the present is a time that has already passed, and so "of" reflects this. Ellwat (talk) 15:56, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree from a grammar POV. However, I believe this point was discussed during the Featured Article nomination process and "at" agreed on – possibly by non-British/Irish contributors Billsmith60 (talk) 12:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IP, ”As at” is good, formal British English. “As of” is an American interloper, although more favoured in common and lowly use nowadays.If you could identify the quote it would help, but you should note that if it was originally in AmEng, that is the version we should display. - SchroCat (talk) 04:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'As of' to mean 'at the present time' is AmE. In BrE it means, more or less, 'from': 'As of next week, this supermarket will be open until 10 p.m. on Thursdays.' 'As at' means it's true now (at the time of writing) but isn't guaranteed to remain true: 'As at 5 July 2024, Rishi Sunak is the leader of the Conservative Party.' Both expressions are probably best avoided in an international encyclopedia. Snugglepuss (talk) 12:17, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can someone add the sentence:
"Truss is the third female UK prime minister, after Margaret Thatcher and Theresa May."?
Preferably somewhere in the lede/introductory paragraph. I believe it is a relevant fact and justifiable addition to the article. Thank you.66.91.36.8 (talk) 02:42, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An article from the Independent is mentioned. However when you click on "The Independent", it takes you to the incorrect wikipedia page for the newspaper/website. Jmacri36 (talk) 21:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Tim O'Doherty, can you explain the reasoning behind this edit please. Although their printed paper newspaper was called The Independent, their web work is simply called Independent. The cites in this article are all of their web work, none are of their print work (which is no longer even published), so why do we use the name of the print work, even though it is not cited? -- DeFacto (talk). 23:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is nonstandard. It's also internally inconsistent: we have The Daily Telegraph (universally used forqualityPMarticles) rather than The Telegraph, which is its online brand. This has been through FAC, which examines source formatting. I've done GANs where I've been asked to format the names of works differently: this is a tier above that. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that we need consistency, but in my view we should be consistently correct, and not sometimes consistent in name, regardless of correctness. As far as I can see, all of the news media publications being cited in this article are web works, so surely we should use the names used by the publishers of those web works, and not the name of one of their sister publications, or the name of one of their historical predecessors - that would be consistency. Using anything other than the publication's actual published name is just plain misrepresenting the name of the work. That would apply to all the news media web works, including the defunct The Independent's descendent web work, the "Independent", and the The Daily Telegraph's "The Telegraph", yes.
You say using just "Independent" in cites for the name of works that are called just "Independent" is "nonstandard" - where is the standard that you are applying documented? Does it have a look-up table giving the names that are acceptable for each of the news web media works that are likely to be used?
Talking of consistency, I notice that the web work known as "The Telegraph" is referred to as both "the Telegraph", "The Daily Telegraph" in the prose, and "The Daily Telegraph" or "The Sunday Telegraph" in citations. We also have cites of web works called "The Sunday Times" cited as both "The Times" and as "The Sunday Times".
And looking at one of the other PM article you linked in above, in the ADH one, we see in cites the work name correctly given as "The Manchester Guardian" in a cite of the printed newspaper when that was its name, and correctly given as "The Guardian" in cites of the same newspaper after its name change. Is that inconsistent and nonstandard too?
But anyway, what I am trying to understand, is why we should use incorrect, even if historically related, names for web works in this article? -- DeFacto (talk). 10:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Re paragraph 3: the prose isn't relevant. I've looked through those references and can't find a single example. Can you point one out? Re paragraph 4: if we're treating the Douglas-Home article's Manchester Guardian as the standard to follow on this article, then the Independent sources here before going web-only in 2016 should, by that logic, be the full The Independent. We have two such sources from 2014: should we change those? It certainly brandeditself as "The Independent" online then. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 15:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Tim O'Doherty, Re para 3, the references citing the web work called "The Telegraph":
1 using the name "The Sunday Telegraph" - {{cite news |last=Diver |first=Tony |date=3 October 2021 |title=Transgender people should not have right to self-identify without medical checks, Liz Truss says |work=[[The Sunday Telegraph]] |url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/10/03/transgender-people-should-not-have-right-self-identify-without/ |url-status=live |url-access=subscription |access-date=24 September 2022 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220730152838/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/10/03/transgender-people-should-not-have-right-self-identify-without/ |archive-date=30 July 2022}}
1 of 14 using the name "The Daily Telegraph" - {{Cite news |last=Yorke |first=Harry |date=29 August 2020 |title=Liz Truss to set out ambition for a 'gold standard' trade deal with Australia |work=[[The Daily Telegraph]] |url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/29/liz-truss-set-ambition-gold-standard-trade-deal-australia/ |url-status=live |url-access=subscription |access-date=24 August 2023 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200829204911/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/29/liz-truss-set-ambition-gold-standard-trade-deal-australia/ |archive-date=29 August 2020}}
Re para 4, you make a good point. I was looking at the current online versions of them - and they are bothbranded just "Independent". I think we should stick with what they were called when they were first published. And suppress the current versions, leaving just the contemporaneous archive version in the cite perhaps - as who knows what else might have changed?