Talk:Dolly (trailer)

H-dolly vs A-dolly

This immage appears to show an H-dolly or tandem dolly rather than an A-dolly. Any comments? --Peter Horn 17:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It looks like an ordinary tandem (i.e. 2-axle) A-dolly to me. --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The image at link "1" sure looks like a different coupling method, almost like an extension of the frame. In Denmark something like this might be used at heavy load tractors instead of using a low loader dolly. The picture to the side is the only type I've ever seen in use in Scandinavia except for 1-axled internal-use-dollies at sales or service facilities. G®iffen 15:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you look closely, the image in the link at top left shows 2 couplings side-by-side. This is what makes it different to a convertor dolly. Tandem refers to having 2 axles and has nothing to do with the coupling configuration. The european dolly at the right is also a tandem dolly. --Athol Mullen 22:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to the second link it appears to be an H-dolly or tandem dolly.

User:AtholM keeps calling these two links spamlinks & I don't see the reason why.

Peter Horn 00:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Please sign your posts to a talk page properly. Your signature is not providing a link to your user page.

The two links in question are links to a manufaturer's web site advertising their particular brand of dollies. Neither is necessary for this article.

The web link to the h-dolly apppears to be the only use of that term anywhere, probably making it a manufacturer's marketing name. Further, the right side photo on that web site clearly shows that it has 2 couplings side-by-side as per a c-dolly. This is completely different to a convertor dolly, which by definition has a single coupling at the front as per the photo of a european dolly. A convertor dolly can have anywhere between one and 3 axles. Of course, all single axle convertor dollies have rigid drawbars and use the front coupling to keep the dolly upright. Some (not all) 2-axle convertor dollies also use a rigid drawbar. Tri-axle convertor dollies have enough stability built into the suspension not to need a rigid drawbar. --Athol Mullen 01:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I.T.E.C. ?

Is I.T.E.C. a standards body (as in "the I.T.E.C H-dolly ...") or a manufacturer? Two of the external links are to pages on http://www.itec-inc.com/ which is not appropriate if they are a manufacturer or vendor. --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to me ITEC is a manufacturer. Relatively clear images, though. Could one write in the link text that it's a commercial link until better is found? G®iffen 15:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The commercial links were removed as linkspam a while ago. The only link on the page right now is to a USA government site. --Athol Mullen 22:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Danish translation

I'm working at the da: translation, and I can't figure out exactly how the "hinged drawbar" in the Australia section works? Where doet it hinge in what direction? Furthermore I'd like to know more about the above mentioned H-dolly - What makes the difference to the A-dolly? G®iffen 15:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to choose some suitable photos to upload. I have a lot of photos of trucks, trailers, dollies, etc. but will need to choose something that isn't legally privileged. A hinged drawbar means that the drawbar has pivots on both sides just in front of the 1st axle, allowing the front of the drawbar to hinge up and down relative to the dolly frame. The drawbar is shaped like an A when viewed from above, with the coupling at the top and the pivots at the bottom corners. The pivots are often attached directly into the front hangers of the suspension. --Athol Mullen 22:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I had the idea, but I wasn't sure. That system is seen at most full trailers I've seen. G®iffen 10:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fifth wheel

I just don't get it.. Is it a term I'm not familiar with or does it really have five wheels? I can't see any fith wheel on the photo and can't really imagine where there should be space for another wheel. Somebody help me.. --|EPO| 20:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fifth wheel refers to the turntable on top of the dolly, as illustrated in the European type dolly trailer photo above. If you click on that photo, the description of it contains the same terminology. Also note that that photo is in commons, and can hence be used in every language wikipedia. --Athol Mullen 22:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In danish for EPO: fifth wheel er det der på dansk kaldes en skammel. Det er koblingsanordningen :-) Jeg undrede mig også i lang tid. G®iffen 10:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

D'oh - many thanks to G®iffen for explaning in Danish.. :) --|EPO| 16:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I.T.E.C. H-dolly

Copied from my talk page:

I.T.E.C. C-Dolly (^{[dead link]}?)
I.T.E.C. H-Dolly or tandem dolly (^{[dead link]}?)

Why do you consider links to manufacturers inappropriate, especially if the second link is now about the only way to identify or show which is an H-Dolly? For example in Rail tracks the link to Table of North American tee rail (flat bottom) sections provides info on railsizes not easely found otherwise. Peter Horn 00:31, 17 December 2006 (UTC) - User:Peter Horn

It is inappropriate to appear to support one manufacturer, and equally bad to attempt to provide links to all manufacturers. See WP:NOT. Specifically Wikipedia is not for advertising and is not a directory.

It is possible that the term H-dolly is ambiguous and means different things in different places or to different manufacturers - perhaps both of you need to find a government/licencing reference to show what you mean. The currently-linked US Department of Transport website clearly shows A-dolly, B-train and C-dolly, but does not mention H-dolly. It appears the I.T.E.C. tandem dolly may be articulated or self-steering between the two axles.

The example link on the rail tracks page appears to show much more information relevant to the article. The ITEC page has a pretty picture and "call us", with no definitions of what the different kinds of dollies are and what makes them appropriate. A link to the Mexican government page that says they get the extra 12% weight allowance would be more helpful. --Scott Davis ^Talk 03:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I examined the subject web site and googled extensively. I detailed the results on Peter Horn's talk page, here. He responded on my talk page (here, advising, among other things, that he can't see the two side-by-side pintle-hook eye couplings clearly visible in the right hand photo.

Today, he has again queried (here on my talk page) the fact that he's been told that they're not appropriate, citing the fact that manufacturer's links are included in other articles including truck.

I do not believe that the reasons for that site being inappropriate have changed. Unfortunately, I no longer believe that I am able to be civil if I respond to Peter Horn so I'll have to leave it to someone else. His behaviour has me close to giving up on wikipedia. --Athol Mullen 01:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In spite of all of the above, Peter Horn has again added one of the same advertising links, which provides no relevant information and has yet again placed a message on my talk page. As a consequence of this ongoing harassment, I have decided to take a wikibreak. If the link is still in this article, or there are further messages from Peter Horn on my talk page when I check back in a few days, my wikibreak may become retirement. While I was previewing this edit, he added yet more to my talk page. Oh, and I just noticed his comments in G®iffen's talk page. --Athol Mullen 02:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re Dolly (trailer). I have never been able to understand User:Athols very personal objection to my "spam". If his reasoning be valid one would have to get rid out of Wikipedia all articles covering mannufacturers and companies etc. e.g., at random, Volvo Buses Volvo Buses#Acquired companies, Bombardier Transportation and Talgo as well as their corporate websites, etc. etc., wnich by their very nature are a form of advertising. BTW, have a look at the following Canadian beauty: Publiquip Remorque ASETRAIL: Atelier Ste-Émilie(^{[dead link]}?) Asetrail Remorque ASETRAIL: Atelier Ste-Émilie Peter Horn User talk 14:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC) Peter Horn User talk 17:56, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since Peter has objected on my talk page about my recent removal of his links to the ITEC website, I will explain my rational. But first I will also say that I've seen Peter's efforts on many other pages and consider him a good faith, experienced editor who genuinely tries to improve WP.

Now for the reasons why I object to those particular links:

They are advertising for a particular brand. Not a killer objection if the page contains other useful information but see below.
The link to the www.itec-inc.com top page doesn't give any description information at all about dolly's and is pure advertising for ITEC.
The pages for the C-dolly and H-dolly do not give much information apart from a simple line diagram of a dolly not connected to anything else.
The H-dolly doesn't seem to be a classification in common use. Is it only used by ITEC?

For these reasons, I believe the links are overly commercial and not particularly useful. Stepho talk 23:12, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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