Talk:Coval
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Portuguese?
Maybe, but the reference of ancestry.com is dubious. Yes, there are a couple of small places in portugal named coval, but ancestry.com writes that coval means ‘pit’, ‘hollow’, which is an easily refutable nonsense. Also it writes "numerous places" - not so. not a single wikipedia article is about them. SO I think it extremely dubious that a surname was derivied from some obscure places. I challenge to verify what actually is written in Dictionary of American Family Names. Staszek Lem (talk) 16:36, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Glad to see you going up to consensus. So, as I wrote earlier in the description of the changes, "Ancestry" is a pretty reliable source, which in turn refers to "Dictionary of American Family Names" (https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195081374.001.0001/acref-9780195081374-e-12492?rskey=JVVOqf&result=12481). Ancestry doesn't means that Coval is "pit" in Portugese. Why do you think so? The word "pit" in Portuguese is "Cova" (https://translate.google.com/?hl=ru#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=pt&text=pit), Coval is habitational surname, formed from this word. What could be wrong here? KiL92 (talk) 19:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I know the word "cova" (cognate of 'cave'). Ancestry says "places named Coval, from coval ‘pit’, ‘hollow’." That's why I find the source dubious. BTW, Oxford reference says the same nonsense (I admit this may be a typo). And wikipedia does not really takes tertiary sources as reliable references, because in case of doubt (surprize! 'reliable' sources may have errors as well) they are impossible verify, because there is no references in them. Staszek Lem (talk) 21:01, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
- OK, I did some google books search it seems that coval is indeed a portuguese word, but an expression "um grande coval de trigo" somehow difficult to translate a large pit of wheat :-(. Also here it says "capella de Nossa Senhora da Consolação (vulgarmente, do Coval)" - and that I may believe may give the name to a place and to a person. Staszek Lem (talk) 21:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I know the word "cova" (cognate of 'cave'). Ancestry says "places named Coval, from coval ‘pit’, ‘hollow’." That's why I find the source dubious. BTW, Oxford reference says the same nonsense (I admit this may be a typo). And wikipedia does not really takes tertiary sources as reliable references, because in case of doubt (surprize! 'reliable' sources may have errors as well) they are impossible verify, because there is no references in them. Staszek Lem (talk) 21:01, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
Anyway, I asked for a help from native speakers (being a slow-thinking idiot). Staszek Lem (talk) 21:43, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
- Portuguese here, from Lisbon. At first I was going to say that it is not a surname, as I have never heard it or read it once in my life. But after some searches, it appears to be a very obscure last name, at least used by three historical figures per Nos Portugueses, a reputable website on Portuguese surnames with official patronage of the Presidency of Portugal. So yes, it is a surname, even if very rare. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 22:48, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Cristiano Tomás: Thank you for the update. But more interesting is to figure out the meaning of the word 'coval', i.e., the etymology of the surname, with references. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:34, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
I got it. Misunderstanding is over. I agree, it looks like there is typo in description, excess letter "l" in the word "cova" (Portuguese: habitational name from any of numerous places named Coval, from coval ‘pit’, ‘hollow’). I checked the translation of the word ′pit′ to Portuguese, but didn't notice that there was a possible typo in the source and sincerely didn't understand why you translate the word "coval" instead of "cova". My bad, my fault. But I insist on my own, essentially the source is correct. Cova is the pit, Coval is the place and habitational surname. KiL92 (talk) 23:50, 5 May 2020 (UTC)