Talk:Conscious Capitalism
I reproduce this from the discussion on the [[Conscious business] page, which this page redirects to:
Conscious Business is NOT Conscious Capitalism - Two terms, two sources, two concepts. We need a new and different page for Conscious Capitalism.
Hello, I arrived in this wikipage and was very surprised. In facts I am French and very interested in the subject as a scientist. The page mixes two things that are radically different because they come from two different lines of thought and sets of authors.
On the one hand there is Fred Kofman, with his book cited as the first reference. His intellectual affiliation associates K. Wilber and Peter Senge. It refers to the theories of complexity, the integral approach, the development of consciousness in humans. Excerpt Consciousness is the ability to experience reality, to be aware of our inner and outer worlds.
The word he uses is conscious business, in french "Entreprise consciente". We can add the conscious business initiative with people like Ervin László and the club de Budapest. The spiritual dimension is very present, the idea is that we should expand our consciousness to feel that we are part of "oneness".
Then, on a radicaly other hand, there are business leaders like John Mackey and some others, who have developed their idea in a totally empirical logic, full of common sense and reinforced (for J McKey) by the great success of their ethic/organic stores. He "tried things" and then conceptualized them. He also defends the ethics of the entrepreneur who wants to do something.
The word he uses is conscious capitalism (TM).
Here, the article gives tracks that go both lines of thought. It is extremely poor in sources. Kofman's book is the first quoted, while none of his ideas are included.
To illustrate, here is the table of contents of his book. Nothing to do with what has in the article.
Contents
- Chapter 1: Conscious Business
- Chapter 2: Unconditional Responsibility
- Chapter 3: Essential Integrity
- Chapter 4: Ontological Humanity
- Chapter 5: Authentic Communication
- Chapter 6: Constructive Negotiation
- Chapter 7: Impeccable Coordination
- Chapter 8: Emotional Mastery
- Chapter 9: Entering the Market with Helping Hands
So maybe two WPages ? Or none ?
--Vertsaxo (talk) 10:48, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Additional comment from Lauchlan Mackinnon, November 2019
I concur.
Conscious Capitalism is a major movement in the business world. John Mackey's bestselling book "Conscious Capitalism" -https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Capitalism-New-Preface-Authors-ebook/dp/B00GQDL7MA/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0 - the Conscious Capitalism network, and a range of activities around this such as Benefit corporations are a significant movement.
I also refer the reader to Mackey's 2005 debate with Milton Friedman at https://reason.com/2005/10/01/rethinking-the-social-responsi-2/ and to Patricia Aburdeen's book Megatrends 2010 - https://www.amazon.com/Megatrends-2010-Rise-Conscious-Capitalism/dp/1571744568/ref=sr_1_1 - which advocates "Conscious Capitalism" (not conscious business).
This "conscious business" thing while interesting is kind of like a footnote to the MUCH larger conscious capitalist movement. Having "Conscious Capitalism" redirect to "Conscious Business" is missing the point. "Conscious Capitalism" deserves its own page.
Wikipedia definitely needs a "conscious capitalism" page. Whether or not a "conscious business" page is for someone else to decide :)
How do we stop Conscious Capitalism redirecting to this page, so that we can create the major encyclopedia article that is needed?
Update: I found how to change the redirect and make the edits via Help:redirect. After I put some effort into creating a helpful initial stub for an article, someone immediately reverted it before I could publish an update to the talk page saying why I had made the change, and outlining some ideas for expanding on the stub I created. It wouldn't publish. They said:
"Hello, I'm Flyer22 Reborn. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of your recent contributions —specifically this edit to Conscious capitalism—because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Help desk. Thanks. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:16, 22 November 2019 (UTC)"
I put effort into fixing it, this un-constructive reversion didn't help. Someone else can put the effort into fixing it next time! Hopefully they'll have better luck.