Talk:Bocchoris

Bocchoris

If you find reliable sources claiming that Bocchoris was a candidate pharaoh of the Exodus, you can put that in Bakenranef as well as in Pharaohs in the Bible#Pharaohs in the Book of Exodus, but claiming that there were two different Bocchoris/Bakenranef, as you did on Bocchoris, has not been conceived by any scholar as far as I can tell, and falls under WP:Original research. Khruner (talk) 22:38, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Don't edit articles on subjects you are unfamiliar with. The name "Bocchoris" is used for the Pharaoh of the Exodus by Tacitus and Lysimachus, fact. That this is an earlier Bocchoris than Bakenrenef is pointed out in Georg Heinrich Ewald's History of Israel page 86 for example, where Josephus places him c 1600 BC. Just because you are completely ignorant of a subject does not make it "original research" ( = standard bullshit Wikipedia terminology for "I don't like it because it conflicts with my own pet theory").

Thanks for the flowers. And you don't edit at all if you are unfamiliar with Wikipedia guidelines, my snooty friend. Again, if the name Bocchoris is associated with the pharaoh of the Exodus by some reliable sources then put this information in Pharaohs in the Bible#Pharaohs in the Book of Exodus, providing WP:reliable sources in the way you have never done it before. Otherwise, write here the exact references and I'll put here for you. Ewald pointed out in a note about an earlier Bocchoris in his 1869 work; not exactly the latest news, but it may deserves a mention in Bakenranef article. Definitely not in Bocchoris which is a disambiguation page and has its own guideline. About the fanciful Bocchoris = Misphragmuthosis = Menkheperre equation, be careful of avoid combining sources in order to reach a conclusion which isn't actually stated in the sources, a thing called synthesis which is discouraged here. Khruner (talk) 09:09, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Its not fanciful, the Tacitus/Lysimachus account is part of a family of closely related Egyptian accounts of the Exodus going back to Manetho and in Manethos account as preserved by Africanus, the Pharaoh is Misphragmuthosis also called Amosis and _mainstream_ view is that this is Menkhepere Thutmose. In the account by John of Nikiu the same Pharaoh Amosis is mentioned and he is also called Petissonius. In Artapanus the same Pharaoh Petissonius is mentioned and he is also called Nechephreus (as preserved by Clement). Although these are different sources they each share a name pairwise and all are giving an account understood to have a common origin. Whether the usage of the form "Bocchoris" by Lysimachus is due to a confusion of this Pharaoh with Bakenranef or due to some other reason is not clear as "Bocchoris" is also not an accurate transliteration of Bakenranef (it appears to be based on Wahkare but where an Egyptian w is normally dropped in transliteration it appears here as a beta possibly influenced by "Bakenranef" but also hinting at the name being a confounding of the Pharaohs name with that of the ancient port. 197.234.164.85 (talk)

I had read somewhere that Artapanus' Chenephres, probably the same of your Nechephreus, has been tentatively identified also with Khaneferre Sebekhotep. Also, according by Kenneth Kitchen, after the 22nd Dynasty foreigners mostly referred to Egyptian pharaohs by their personal names rather than their throne names, so "Bocchoris" iappears more likely derived from Bakenranef rather than Wahkare, but whatever. I think you have enough sources - assuming that you have the precise references - for creating at least a paragraph on Bakenranef about this alternative view. I feel that a brand-new creation of an article about an alternate Bocchoris should require some more recent sources treating the ancient ones you mentioned above. Khruner (talk) 16:55, 3 September 2017 (UTC)