Talk:Battle of Gdeszyn

Request

please create one article, not millions of them, stop using a pseudo-historical book that is not recognised by historians like Grzegorz Motyka Birczenin (talk) 13:10, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Volodymyr Viatrovych is a great Ukrainian historian and if you just don’t like him and his works - it’s not my problem. I’m making an articles so what’s the problem? Go make your own and don't get involved in my business Forward.ops (talk) 13:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

"The Second Polish-Ukrainian War 1942-1947" was criticised by historians Ihor Ilyushin, Andriy Portnov, Grzegorz Motyka, Andrzej Zięba, Per Anders Rudling, Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Andrzej Leon Sowa and Grzegorz Hryciak, who levelled a number of accusations against it:

Double standards, selective choice of sources. Historians accuse V.Vyatrovych of applying double standards in assessing evidence and facts. In the case of Ukrainian crimes, he seeks to diminish them, and in the case of Polish crimes, to exaggerate them. V. Vyatrovych also applies double standards to the memories of witnesses. He completely rejects the memoirs of Polish witnesses to OUN-UPA crimes as allegedly biased. At the same time, he uncritically relies on those witness accounts that confirm his vision of history (most often the recollections of Ukrainian nationalists). A similar tactic is used by V. Vyatrovych to documents. He quotes them selectively in order to prove a preconceived thesis and questions the authenticity of documents that put the OUN-UPA in a bad light without any basis. For him, Yuri Stelmashchuk's testimony before the NKVD that Dmytr Klaczkiwsky had handed over to him a secret directive from the OUN provincial office to murder the Polish minority is a Soviet forgery. At the same time, V. Vyatrovych is not reluctant to refer extensively to documents made public by Mykola Lebed and Volodymyr Kosyk, despite proving that Ukrainian nationalists removed from them passages compromising the OUN.

Relying on one unverified document (a letter from Bishop Plato to Bishop Polycarp), the author of the book holds the Schutzmannschaft unit composed of Poles responsible for the Malina crime, ignoring a number of other sources contradicting this thesis. Birczenin (talk) 13:18, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

How does a book of V. Viatrovych with 793+ pages could be an “false information”? There’s nothing with his book and evidence of the ethnic conflict, there’s several sources that has confirmed his words and it’s not that book. It’s other one. Forward.ops (talk) 13:21, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Allegations to the semantic layer of the book. Critics of the book accuse it that by using the term "war" to describe Polish-Ukrainian relations, the author tries to hide the criminality of the genocidal ethnic cleansing carried out by the OUN and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army on Poles. According to G. Motyka, V. Vyatrovych uses rhetorical tricks to create such an impression as if the OUN had nothing to do with the planned destruction of Poles. Per A. Rudling, he notes the similarity of V. Vyatrovych's procedure, portraying the killings of Poles in 1943-1944 as a mere episode in the decades-long "Polish-Ukrainian conflict," to the conduct of Jean-Marie Le Pen, who called the Holocaust a "detail" in the history of World War II

G. Motyka, Per A. Rudling and G.Hryciuk criticize V. Vyatrovych for using a description of events that creates in the reader a misleading impression of the equal scale of Ukrainian attacks on Poles and Polish attacks on Ukrainians.

Allegations are also raised by the book's author's calling Polish rule in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia an "occupying power," and claiming that the Home Army and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army had equal international status.

G.Motyka and A.Zięba believe that, as a result of the treatments made by the author, the argumentation presented in the book may appear convincing to the average reader

this accusation well you show now that Poles were losing battles and attacking Ukrainians like that article Birczenin (talk) 13:21, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Insane copium. Doesn’t matter that really Forward.ops (talk) 13:22, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Even Grzegorz Motyka, him criticized the people you used in your articles and what sources show this? yours? Birczenin (talk) 13:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Grzegorz Motyka is literally a chauvinist. Ukrainian underground’s documents concerning relations between the Ukrainians and the Polish in a difficult period for both nations between 1942 and 1947 are presented in the book. Details of the war between the two peoples, negotiations attempts and cooperation between Ukrainian and Polish underground, general characteristic of political situation in Western Ukraine as a background for the conflict as well as other theme are depicted by unique sources: reports of the OUN and UPA nets, instructions, orders, Security Service’s protocols. Most of them are published for the first time.

The publication will be useful for scientists, lectors, students and all interested in Ukrainian and Polish history.

Publication is supported by Ukrainian Studies Fund (USA). Polish-Ukrainian relations in 1942-1947 in the documents of the OUN and UPA: in 2 volumes / Resp. ed. and arrangement V. M. Vyatrovych. — T. 1. War during the war. 1942—1945. — Lviv: Liberation Movement Research Center, 2011. — 792 p.

The two-volume collection contains documents from the Ukrainian underground about Polish-Ukrainian relations during a difficult period for both peoples: 1942-1947. The course of the war between them, attempts to negotiate and establish cooperation between the Ukrainian and Polish underground, the general characteristics of the political situation in Western Ukraine against the background of which the conflict developed - these and other topics are covered by unique sources (reports of the OUN network and UPA departments, instructions and orders, protocols security services). Most of the materials are published for the first time.

The publication is intended for scientists, teachers, students and all those who are interested in the history of Ukraine and Poland.

Issued with the assistance of the Foundation of the Department of Ukrainian Studies (USA)

Approved for printing by the Academic Council of Ivan Franko Lviv National University on April 27, 2011, protocol No. 27/4

Reviewers:

Zashkilnyak L. O., Doctor of Historical Sciences Shapoval Yu. I., Doctor of Historical Sciences Patrylyak I. K., Candidate of Historical Sciences

ISBN 978-966-1594-13-4

ISBN 978-966-1594-14-1 (1st volume)

© V'yatrovych V., texts, arrangement, 2011 © Salo O., design, 2011

© Liberation Movement Research Center, 2011. Forward.ops (talk) 13:28, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

V'yatrovych V., texts, arrangement, 2011 It is the statement of V'yatrovych which I have now corrected his words that no one shares, I gave you proof, and you disregarded it and gave alleged attempts to refute Grzegorz Motyka , and you yourself used it when creating the article. Birczenin (talk) 13:32, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

this article is suitable for deletion simply like that other one Birczenin (talk) 13:45, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

No, it’s not. Those articles are great Forward.ops (talk) 13:48, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Please give other sources than Volodymyr Viatrovich. Because he is a controversial person. Birczenin (talk) 13:52, 30 June 2024 (UTC)