Talk:Atheist feminism

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Only one reference

Why is there only one reference - and why is that one reference used only once in the article (at the bottom). This article needs a total rewrite with information sourced from reliable sources.

I titled this topic/section, thus moving it from above the table of contents to below. Nick Levinson (talk) 01:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tags

There are a number of issues with this article:

  1. Unsourced claims.
  2. Possible WP:OR.

Possibly how to fix it:

  1. Add sources to unsourced claims.
  2. Expand sections on religious oppression of women (with sources).
  3. Remove any OR.

Autarch (talk) 19:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shinto?

The creation myth of Shinto involves a marriage ceremony that is considered "botched" because the woman speaks first. But other than that the religion has been fairly even handed about the sexes from what I have researched. Contrary to popular belief there were many priestesses from ancient times. And it was not until the militarization of Japan and Shinto in the early 20th century that "State Shinto" became clearly male dominated. In fact, from what I understand, up until the Meiji Restoration the leader of the head shrine at the Grand Shrine of Ise was always a woman. Have there been any notable feminists writings on the subject that could be added here? Colincbn (talk) 13:38, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

We need to remember that in referencing this article the references must be sources that discuss feminists and feminist views, not simply the religion that the article is currently covering. This is because otherwise we will be violating the policy on original research and specifically WP:SYNTHESIS. For example when claiming Atheist Feminists reject Christian or Hebrew beliefs regarding women, instead of referencing a website that states the bibles passages in the Book of Leviticus about menstruation we should link to an article where feminist views on Leviticus are discussed. Of course as a reference that is simply sourcing the laws themselves a link to those passages is perfectly acceptable, just not when used to cite feminist views on the subject. Colincbn (talk) 03:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Contemporary term, from Wikipedia?

Hi there. I added a sentence in the lead to say that "atheist feminism" is a contemporary term. It almost doesn't exist in Google Scholar or Google Books. Anyone else here have any sources? I also reworded the History section to stop calling Rose, Stanton, Gage and Mary Daly by this label. I stopped at living people. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming there are no sources showing significant historical use of the label, I agree with the changes made by Susan. Contemporary labels should generally not be applied to historical figures. I would also be interested in seeing what sources use this label, contemporary or otherwise. This whole article feels rather synthesized to me. Kaldari (talk) 04:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Terms can be applied retrospectively and often are, feminist being an example (it's applied to Mary Wollstonecraft although the word is attested for a dictionary only later). It is appropriate to label the usage as retrospective, if desired.
If the article is adequately sourced but the term atheist feminism is not, given that terms such as Jewish feminism and Christian feminism are established, then an alternative term should be proposed and then, if the article is moved, the presumed redirect from atheist feminism preserved.
I'm not judging the article as a whole.
Nick Levinson (talk) 16:16, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Daly deletion

I deleted the Mary Daly subsection because the only source cited in support of her being an atheist doesn't use the word and the article in the cited source doesn't conceptually describe her as an atheist (there are a lot of comments and maybe one of them describes her conceptually that way without using the word, but a comment is probably not a reliable source). I read a few of her books and I don't recall anything about her being atheist. She was a believer in and practitioner of Wicca. My impression is that she was a believer in the deity Christians generally name God and whom she named the Goddess and that her beliefs were not entirely what the Holy See would have liked if they could have had their druthers. I don't understand post-Christianity to be equivalent to atheism even if some Christians think so; it depends on her beliefs. As far as I know, she never totally abandoned the faith.

If anyone wishes to restore the section or move it to another article, presumably with editing, since the rest of it may be perfectly valid and maybe there's a source that says she was atheist and it belongs here, the latest revision is the one to start with, since it includes a correction I made to it on another matter before deleting it.

Nick Levinson (talk) 16:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why religious feminism?

It seems as though the "Religious Feminism" section has no place in an article about atheist feminism. If there are atheist feminist reactions to religious feminism, that would be one thing, but the section as it is currently just discusses an issue that is really separate and doesn't belong. I recommend this section be removed and replaced with a "see also" link. Flies 1 (talk) 17:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree except that we should first make sure the section's content is elsewhere in Wikipedia, then link to it. Nick Levinson (talk) 01:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is this article really needed?

Why is this article by itself, I don't see the point of it, Feminism and Atheism are two different things all this article is doing is talking about those feminists who just happen to be atheists, it's just accidental. I think this article should be merged or deleted I don't see the point of it. --Rowland938 (talk) 11:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The problem hasn't improved in almost three years. There's no attempt here to identify a distinctly atheistic strain of feminism, or vice versa. Mangoe (talk) 14:02, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The term appears in printed books and scholarly works, so I'd say it's legitimate.
  • Aune, K.; Redfern, C. (2013). Reclaiming the F Word: Feminism Today. Zed Books. ISBN 978-1-78032-628-3.
  • Haywood, I.; Leader, Z. (2005). Romantic Period Writings 1798-1832: An Anthology. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 978-1-134-72726-1.
  • Schaefer, Donovan O. (25 April 2013), "Embodied Disbelief: Poststructural Feminist Atheism", Hypatia: A journal of feminist philosophy, doi:10.1111/hypa.12039
Based on the evidence, and there's more on the general WWW, if there were a move to delete this article, I would probably oppose it. ☆ Bri (talk) 18:29, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Ayaan Hirsi Ali

@Kashmiri: Why did you return the revision with the outdated information? Ayaan Hirsi Ali is no longer identified as an atheist feminist; she is now a Christian. Aisha8787 (talk) 19:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per Ayaan Hirsi Ali, she converted to Christianity in November 2023 and now identifies as Christian. — kashmīrī TALK 19:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I now see you prefer to keep her in the article nonetheless. Self reverting. — kashmīrī TALK 19:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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